[Albion] If we go down

[BLOCK F]

Yup, the playing squad may not be as strong as we would have wished, but how much of our regression this season is down to coaching and tactics and the inability of the management to get the best out of the players at their disposal?
As an outsider and keyboard warrior, my gut tells me that the players are a dispirited bunch and that CH and co. are unable to inspire/allow them to be the best they can.
Before any clever dick spouts a load of statistics saying we haven't regressed, I reckon there can be just as many stats to say we have!
Quite frankly, I believe that Hughton has to go if the hierarchy wish the club to reach its full potential in the Prem.
As for Dan The Man Ashworth, he says his task is to ensure that Hughton stays in his job for as long as possible. Well, if he comes up with a few players that are reckoned to be good and they don't perform for Hughton, that makes him look bad and perhaps he would then rather Hughton went instead of himself!

 

[nwgull]

Stephens would move to Burnley/Cardiff or one of the promoted sides.

Bissouma would actually benefit greatly from a year in the Championship, but I think highly unlikely to stay.

Propper already wearing an Ajax shirt.

So there goes the midfield everybody is complaining about.

Dunk would move and who would begrudge him.

Murray will struggle I feel as will Bruno.

So that's Dunk, Bruno, Stephens and Murray likely to not feature. The spine of the team for 4 years gone. We could get 10-15 games out of Kayal before his inevitable injury, and we can hope Knockaert finds his form again and rips up the league. Not many other positives.

We didn’t let Stephens go to Burnley in August ‘16 when he only had 9 months left on his contract; why would we let him go when he’d still have 2 years to go (and we had a lot more money to play with)?

2-3 would leave for various reasons, and it wouldn’t surprise me if there were transfer fee release clauses on some. However, you’ve got to trust that Barber will have set these high, and you’d question how in demand this squad would be having been relegated on such a terrible second half of the season. Dunk would be the only inevitable departure, I think.

 

[Lower West Stander]

I’m a long way from being a Barber fan, but this mess is down to Hughton, not him.

The performances this year have been awful. Even the Palace win was a defensive mistake and a worldy. That is the responsibility of the manager and the players.

The board have backed the manager with a fair chunk of new signings. The fact that none of them have pulled up any trees is due to the football aspect not the financial one


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[Albion Dan]

Disagree, can’t see how Bloom, Barber and the board are to blame? If like a lot of fans you’re looking to find excuses for Hughton out of loyalty and you don’t think we’ve signed good enough players then surely it’s the recruitment department you should be blaming? They’ve been given a fortune to spend by B and B.

The same recruitment department we couldn’t praise enough last season.

Maybe, just maybe the players we’ve signed are actually quite good but the manager and coaches are not getting the most out of them. When you consider that nearly every existing player seems to have also regressed this season, that seems the most likely explanation.

Either way, can’t see why Bloom and Barber deserve blame? They just seem like excellent, supportive bosses to me.

Failing to identify we were woefully short of options up front in the last window and doing something about it has led us to this place. We were relying on a 35 year old to score goals supported by a player with No prem experience and mostly injured up to that point and Locadia who has never looked good enough. I agree Hughtons tactics have also been a big part of the problem but we are paper thin when it comes to goals across the squad and that was obvious and should have been addressed.

 

[SollysLeftFoot]

But the season is over 38 games, and we are making a pigs ear of it at the moment, a bit like when we blew the Championship title.

Granted, but before January our favoured formation was the 4-4-1-1, we sacrificed possession in order to be more defensive and we were more effective. We have since switched to a 4-5-1 and 4-3-3 and we've gained in possession but sacrificed our defensive rigidity that was allowing us to grind our the wins with margins of a single goal. My hypothesis is that our new formation means we have more possession but we don't know what to do with this. Shots have increased considerably, but shot accuracy has fallen. We just cannot break teams down, to me; we're missing Gross more than we realise.

In the process of writing a blog comparing our season in two periods.

The fact remains, Hughton's formation shake up has cost us dearly and his refusal to revert back to the 4-4-1-1 is problematic. Us blowing the title reminds me of our recent games bar the semi final. I think that issue falls mainly on Hughton, I don't think Hughton can motivate our players at all.

 

[SollysLeftFoot]

You make a good point but, honestly, do we have squad players ready to play PL football in every position as a start or bench option?

Absolutely not, that said, I don't think every team in the bottom half have that. Our issue appears to be a formation not fitting both the players and the playing philosophy of Hughton.

 

[Hamilton]

Completely deluded. So a clubs leadership doesn’t have responsibility for the competitiveness of the football team that takes to the field? We could be playing in a generations time with a secure set up in league two in a nice stadium, will they have succeeded?

Delusion is not seeing the bigger picture my son.


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[jonnyrovers]

Granted, but before January our favoured formation was the 4-4-1-1, we sacrificed possession in order to be more defensive and we were more effective. We have since switched to a 4-5-1 and 4-3-3 and we've gained in possession but sacrificed our defensive rigidity that was allowing us to grind our the wins with margins of a single goal. My hypothesis is that our new formation means we have more possession but we don't know what to do with this. Shots have increased considerably, but shot accuracy has fallen. We just cannot break teams down, to me; we're missing Gross more than we realise.

In the process of writing a blog comparing our season in two periods.

The fact remains, Hughton's formation shake up has cost us dearly and his refusal to revert back to the 4-4-1-1 is problematic. Us blowing the title reminds me of our recent games bar the semi final. I think that issue falls mainly on Hughton, I don't think Hughton can motivate our players at all.

I’m a staunch Hughton remainer, but that’s a very convincing argument, backed up with good evidence. My only counter is the inverse ratio of shots to goals. That is down to quality, and that in turn is down to recruitment.

 

[Albion Dan]

Delusion is not seeing the bigger picture my son.


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The big picture is the responsibility of TB and PB and a massive part of that picture is reliant on having a desirable product ie. Good level football. This is entirely dependant on having a quality squad and recruitment strategy. We have neither right now.

 

[SollysLeftFoot]

I’m a staunch Hughton remainer, but that’s a very convincing argument, backed up with good evidence. My only counter is the inverse ratio of shots to goals. That is down to quality, and that in turn is down to recruitment.

Yep - I'm covering that too! In my WIP blog, I look at our season in multiple perspectives.

First, comparing our Aug-Dec run and then Jan-Apr. I then look at our formation and statistics for each formation we've played (as in accordance to WhoScored, though I trust this is largely accurate).

My main concern is Hughton, not necessarily our team. He changed the formation but not strictly our approach. We're still quite defensive irrespective of the total shots increasing because this to me insinuates we are speculating more than we are working to break teams down. That said, this could also because we are massively missing Gross and/or require Propper or Bissouma to be playing higher up the pitch to be more creative.

 

[neilbard]

Granted, but before January our favoured formation was the 4-4-1-1, we sacrificed possession in order to be more defensive and we were more effective. We have since switched to a 4-5-1 and 4-3-3 and we've gained in possession but sacrificed our defensive rigidity that was allowing us to grind our the wins with margins of a single goal. My hypothesis is that our new formation means we have more possession but we don't know what to do with this. Shots have increased considerably, but shot accuracy has fallen. We just cannot break teams down, to me; we're missing Gross more than we realise.

In the process of writing a blog comparing our season in two periods.

The fact remains, Hughton's formation shake up has cost us dearly and his refusal to revert back to the 4-4-1-1 is problematic. Us blowing the title reminds me of our recent games bar the semi final. I think that issue falls mainly on Hughton, I don't think Hughton can motivate our players at all.

I would agree with that, but I wasn't sure what formation we were playing on Saturday our shape was awful at times.

You are 100% correct about the players not having a clue what to do with it when we are in possession, its a bit of a punt but I would go 4-4-2 tomorrow,
I think Cardiff went 4-4-1-1 on Saturday? We are getting overrun in midfield at the moment, teams are just waltzing through us..

 

[Diablo]

If we go down ........ My seat is £7 per game cheaper.: £33 instead of £40 :

 

[SollysLeftFoot]

I would agree with that, but I wasn't sure what formation we were playing on Saturday our shape was awful at times.

You are 100% correct about the players not having a clue what to do with it when we are in possession, its a bit of a punt but I would go 4-4-2 tomorrow,
I think Cardiff went 4-4-1-1 on Saturday? We are getting overrun in midfield at the moment, teams are just waltzing through us..

Heaven knows what happened on Saturday, but we've not been able to maintain rigidity with what we've been doing for the past 3.5 months. I would be tempted to do 4-4-1-1 with Kayal and Stephens in the middle with Propper as the Gross role if Gross isn't fit. If March is fit, put him in as the replacement for Knockaert and Izzy on the right. This to me would ensure a tight ship, though upfront is an area I'm not too sure off. I don't think Murray would be appropriate against big defenders, might be worth trying to play through the middle and slip throughballs for Andone.

 

[DarrenFreemansPerm]

Dunk is being exposed now at top level , can’t defend for a toffee now

Run at him with pace and he craps himself.

 

[Hamilton]

The big picture is the responsibility of TB and PB and a massive part of that picture is reliant on having a desirable product ie. Good level football. This is entirely dependant on having a quality squad and recruitment strategy. We have neither right now.

The quality of the squad gets built over time. Teams with limited resources - who have survived longer than a couple of seasons have demonstrated that.

Your rant at TB and PB is coming off the back of a difficult second season. Look back and you'll see that teams like Fulham - who go for big money signings and wholesale replacements - tend to go down. Teams that build slowly, stay up or at least frequent the higher reaches of the league structure on a more regular basis.

It should not be forgotten that on average, over the past 100 years, our natural position is top of the 3rd tier/bottom of the 2nd, so TB and PB aren't doing too badly.

I'd suggest you're out of step and just reacting to your immediate emotions - which is understandable, but doesn't give any of us permission to start finger pointing at TB and PB.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Keep the faith.....

 

[darkwolf666]

Nothing wrong with Squad, Recruitment. All down to tactics and that is down to one person.
CH will not change his tactics/formation so we need to get rid at the end of season so the Club and progress.
Football decisions now controlled by Ashworth and he has not left the FA to be associated with failure.

But he has changed his formation. We played a season and a half with one up front and was called boring. He changed tactics around Christmas, to much delight on these boards and look at the results since!

Think I said at the time careful what you wish for with the clamour to change things. If only I had known just how right I would be!

 

[rippleman]

Granted, but before January our favoured formation was the 4-4-1-1, we sacrificed possession in order to be more defensive and we were more effective. We have since switched to a 4-5-1 and 4-3-3 and we've gained in possession but sacrificed our defensive rigidity that was allowing us to grind our the wins with margins of a single goal. My hypothesis is that our new formation means we have more possession but we don't know what to do with this. Shots have increased considerably, but shot accuracy has fallen. We just cannot break teams down, to me; we're missing Gross more than we realise.

In the process of writing a blog comparing our season in two periods.

The fact remains, Hughton's formation shake up has cost us dearly and his refusal to revert back to the 4-4-1-1 is problematic. Us blowing the title reminds me of our recent games bar the semi final. I think that issue falls mainly on Hughton, I don't think Hughton can motivate our players at all.

I find that a very good summary but reverting to 4-4-1-1 without Gross seems to be the problem. Solly, Ali J and Knocky have all had a go in that role and failed.

However, where CH has obviously missed a trick is not playing Propper in a more advanced role. It is where he plays for the Dutch after all.

 

[SollysLeftFoot]

I find that a very good summary but reverting to 4-4-1-1 without Gross seems to be the problem. Solly, Ali J and Knocky have all had a go in that role and failed.

However, where CH has obviously missed a trick is not playing Propper in a more advanced role. It is where he plays for the Dutch after all.

Very good point, one i have completely overlooked. Maybe Gross's injury was worse than thought and this forced the change.

 

[GT49er]

I find that a very good summary but reverting to 4-4-1-1 without Gross seems to be the problem. Solly, Ali J and Knocky have all had a go in that role and failed.

However, where CH has obviously missed a trick is not playing Propper in a more advanced role. It is where he plays for the Dutch after all.

Biss and Stephens in CM, with Propper at no.10 might be/have been an option.