If the Germans had invaded Britain during WW2 what would the result have been.

[cunning fergus]

Listening to this, amazing man. View attachment 61261

Hope the book is better than the film.........which is full of historical inaccuracies and glib political correct sentimentality.

For one, to not even mention Tommy Flowers role is outrageous.........quite why the contribution and equal genius of a working class lad from the east end of London has been sacrificed for the genius of an ex public school boy who went to Cambridge is beyond me.

Answers on a post card.

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

Just watching Dads Army on BBC2.

Would they have taken a foothold in the South, and quickly taken the rest of the country? Or would it have been a huge failure that stretched them too much?

I'd stick to water for a day or so.

 

[Nibble]

If the Bosch had made it across the channel the plan was to keep them tied up in Sussex and Surrey with home guard, diversions and ordinance obstacles and rally defences outside London. They would have had a fortnight gadding about the South East before getting their Nazi arses obliterated outside Epsom.

 

[Nibble]

I've read that he never wanted to invade (therefore hesitating) & always hoped we'd negotiate a settlement as we were of the same stock. He always rather approved of the British & especially the empire

He didn't. He ****ing hated the British. He was wary of us but wanted us wiped off the planet. We stood for everything Hitler opposed.

 

[Prince Monolulu]

Hope the book is better than the film.........which is full of historical inaccuracies and glib political correct sentimentality.

For one, to not even mention Tommy Flowers role is outrageous.........quite why the contribution and equal genius of a working class lad from the east end of London has been sacrificed for the genius of an ex public school boy who went to Cambridge is beyond me.

Answers on a post card.

The book is more a story of Turing's life, explaining his family roots and how this combined with his experiences formed his character and henceforth his triumphs and issues. I have not seen the film, and having read other books I am fully aware of others influence.
My comment was simply to suggest that Turing's life story makes fascinating reading (listening).

 

[cunning fergus]

Had they succeeded, or looked likely to succeed, we would have seen widespread collaboration by the upper classes and corporate interests. A puppet leader would have been installed not that dissimilar in style (if not a perfect match in beliefs) to a prominent UKIP politician whilst the real strings were being pulled by the German delegation installed in Senate House, London. Leftists, Jews and other prescribed groups would have been gradually and quietly shipped out to holding camps on the Isle of Wight prior to deportation to Eastern Europe. Some of this comes from C.J.Sansom's Dominion.. worth a read.

Indeed, and the puppets in charge would be passionately supported by people who advocate the end of British sovereignty and the transfer of power to an unelected European elite further distant from Britain and it's long history of democracy.

The Norwegians had a word for those people in WW2.

 

[Pinkie Brown]

Ventnor and Bexhill on Sea strategic military targets? How bizarre? The Germans would have been quaking in their jackboots and were probably quite relieved when operation sealion was postponed.

 

[Theatre of Trees]

The likes of Chamberlain and Halifax (Tories) were responsible for the final stages of appeasement culminating in a possible settlement with Hitler in 1940, however that should not mean Britain's left wing politicians were paragons of political virtue.

Ramsay MacDonald's Labour Govt started the appeasement ball rolling when it cam to power in the 30s and ignored all the warning signs.

Had that Govt executed a more forthright foreign policy, taken Churchill's warnings more seriously instead of labelling him as a "warmonger" what would have happened then?

Think you'll find McDonald's government of 1931-35 was a National Government, initial cabinet in 1931:

Ramsay MacDonald – Prime Minister and Leader of the House of Commons (Lab)
Lord Sankey – Lord Chancellor (Lab)
Stanley Baldwin – Lord President (Con)
Lord Snowden – Lord Privy Seal (Lab)
Neville Chamberlain – Chancellor of the Exchequer (Con)
Sir Herbert Samuel – Home Secretary (Lib)
Sir John Simon – Foreign Secretary (Lib)
Sir Philip Cunliffe-Lister – Colonial Secretary (Con)
J.H. Thomas – Dominions Secretary (Lab)
Lord Hailsham – Secretary of State for War and Leader of the House of Lords (Con)
Sir Samuel Hoare – Secretary of State for India (Con)
Lord Londonderry – Secretary for Air (Con)
Sir Archibald Sinclair – Secretary of State for Scotland (Lib)
Sir B. Eyres-Monsell – First Lord of the Admiralty (Con)
Walter Runciman – President of the Board of Trade (Lib)
Sir John Gilmour – Minister of Agriculture (Scottish Unionist - in effect Conservative)
Sir Donald Maclean – President of the Board of Education (Lib) (Replaced by Lord Irwin (Con) - Later Lord Halifax, on his death in 1932)
Sir Henry Betterton – Minister of Labour (Con)
Sir E. Hilton-Young – Minister of Health (Con)
William Ormsby-Gore – First Commissioner of Works (Con)

The bulk of the Labour party went into opposition and were trounced in the 1931 election - they remained in opposition thereafter. Simon and Runciman were National Liberals which had split from the Liberal Party in 1931 opposed to the party working with Labour pre 1931 election. The National Liberals would later merge with the Conservatives.

Therefore the attempt to sue for peace in 1940 was mainly undertaken by a number of politicians who had been following an appeasement policy from 1933 onwards.

 

[Theatre of Trees]

Ventnor and Bexhill on Sea strategic military targets? How bizarre? The Germans would have been quaking in their jackboots and were probably quite relieved when operation sealion was postponed.

Bexhill has a flat sandy beach without a hilly hinterland, ideal for amphibious landings.

 

[cunning fergus]

Think you'll find McDonald's government of 1931-35 was a National Government, initial cabinet in 1931:

Ramsay MacDonald – Prime Minister and Leader of the House of Commons (Lab)
Lord Sankey – Lord Chancellor (Lab)
Stanley Baldwin – Lord President (Con)
Lord Snowden – Lord Privy Seal (Lab)
Neville Chamberlain – Chancellor of the Exchequer (Con)
Sir Herbert Samuel – Home Secretary (Lib)
Sir John Simon – Foreign Secretary (Lib)
Sir Philip Cunliffe-Lister – Colonial Secretary (Con)
J.H. Thomas – Dominions Secretary (Lab)
Lord Hailsham – Secretary of State for War and Leader of the House of Lords (Con)
Sir Samuel Hoare – Secretary of State for India (Con)
Lord Londonderry – Secretary for Air (Con)
Sir Archibald Sinclair – Secretary of State for Scotland (Lib)
Sir B. Eyres-Monsell – First Lord of the Admiralty (Con)
Walter Runciman – President of the Board of Trade (Lib)
Sir John Gilmour – Minister of Agriculture (Scottish Unionist - in effect Conservative)
Sir Donald Maclean – President of the Board of Education (Lib) (Replaced by Lord Irwin (Con) - Later Lord Halifax, on his death in 1932)
Sir Henry Betterton – Minister of Labour (Con)
Sir E. Hilton-Young – Minister of Health (Con)
William Ormsby-Gore – First Commissioner of Works (Con)

The bulk of the Labour party went into opposition and were trounced in the 1931 election - they remained in opposition thereafter. Simon and Runciman were National Liberals which had split from the Liberal Party in 1931 opposed to the party working with Labour pre 1931 election. The National Liberals would later merge with the Conservatives.

Therefore the attempt to sue for peace in 1940 was mainly undertaken by a number of politicians who had been following an appeasement policy from 1933 onwards.

You are correct, however my point was that appeasement was generally the political orthodoxy in the 30s across the political divide.

George Lansbury who was Labour leader in the 30s was an avowed pacifist who advocated the disbandment of the whole armed services, MacDonald was also a pacifist and conscientious objector in WW1.

Even Labour MPs who were not pacifists like Lord Dalton did not seek to interfere with German rearmament and re-militarising the Rhine land.

 

[Dutch]

In the 1970's german and british generals engaged in a war game to determine the likely outcome. It was deemed foolhardy and bound to failure to attempt an invasion of these shores without air supremacy, which is where of course the battle of britain's importance is highlighted. Another factor was the defenses put in place and also the royal navy, which would have caused havoc to any invading party. All told we would have ripped them a new ********.

 

[cunning fergus]

The book is more a story of Turing's life, explaining his family roots and how this combined with his experiences formed his character and henceforth his triumphs and issues. I have not seen the film, and having read other books I am fully aware of others influence.
My comment was simply to suggest that Turing's life story makes fascinating reading (listening).

Fair enough, and I am sure it is, because Turing was an amazing man.

However he was not alone at Bletchley Park and Flowers and Tutte (another mathematician) who designed and built Colossus (which unlike Turing's bombe machine) was programmable should not be ignored in the rush to venerate Turing and lay the laurel leaves at his feet for designing the world's first computer.

I just don't understand why they were in the film.

 

[jakarta]

He didn't. He ****ing hated the British. He was wary of us but wanted us wiped off the planet. We stood for everything Hitler opposed.

I presume you have never read a primary source such as Mein Kampf where it is clear that his hatred was Slavs, Russians, Poles, Communists and mostly Jews.

As previously stated as an out and out racist he was very much in favour of the British Empire as long as it didn't interfere with his ambitions to empire build in Eastern Europe.

Had Halifax been PM in 1940 rather than Churchill we may well have taken the Petain line and history would have been very different.

Fairer to say that Churchill stood for everything that Hitler opposed and thankfully he was there along with Dowding, Park and Fighter Command in 1940.

 

[Theatre of Trees]

You are correct, however my point was that appeasement was generally the political orthodoxy in the 30s across the political divide.

Indeed though that changed with various parties and individuals during the decade.

George Lansbury who was Labour leader in the 30s was an avowed pacifist who advocated the disbandment of the whole armed services, MacDonald was also a pacifist and conscientious objector in WW1.

And Lansbury was savaged for this by Ernest Bevin at a Labour conference in 1935, which led to his resignation and the move of the party towards supporting rearmament and opposing appeasement. Bevin was very well connected with German socialists through the international trade union movement and would by then be very aware of how the Nazis were dealing with Socialists and Trade Unionists in Germany.

Even Labour MPs who were not pacifists like Lord Dalton did not seek to interfere with German rearmament and re-militarising the Rhine land.

The British had started thinking about the inevitability of this move and were drawing up plans to allow them to undertake the reoccupation in return for other elements of security via a treaty. However, to this end 1936 was a turning point for some in how they viewed the Nazi regime.

If we are talking about who would have been puppets had the Germans successfully conquered, it was well known that Edward VIII would have been restored to the throne and I've always had a belief that Lloyd George, would have become PM.

 

[Nibble]

I presume you have never read a primary source such as Mein Kampf where it is clear that his hatred was Slavs, Russians, Poles, Communists and mostly Jews.

As previously stated as an out and out racist he was very much in favour of the British Empire as long as it didn't interfere with his ambitions to empire build in Eastern Europe.

Had Halifax been PM in 1940 rather than Churchill we may well have taken the Petain line and history would have been very different.

Fairer to say that Churchill stood for everything that Hitler opposed and thankfully he was there along with Dowding, Park and Fighter Command in 1940.

Some of what you say is true.

 

[Perfidious Albion]

This thread is an interesting time waster for a Sunday afternoon....Nobody has mentioned the Americans. Would the NATO Alliance have required them to step in and rescue us? With John Wayne type characters "wuppin' their ass".. If so we would have never heard the last of it and maybe become the 51st state of the USA
Maybe

 

[Cheshire Cat]

NATO? In 1940? WTF?

 

[Nibble]

But, if they had got onto mainland UK I imagine they would have set about executing our greatest and good and slaughtering Jews. They started to do this when they occupied the Channel Islands and no reason they would have done anything different once on the mainland.
I believe 1 Jewish lady was sent off to her death on Guernsey. Her Aunty cycled with her to the port to see her off as nobody had a clue what was happening. However if I was ordered by an occupying force to deliver my child to a port for deportation I would figure something was amiss.

 

[BINNEYS BOOTS]

Have a read of 'Collaborator' by Murray Davis, very good 'what if? ' novel about a German invasion.

 

[theboybilly]

Germany never had the ability to invade Britain. Our navy was too strong, and they didn't have air superiority either.

The Navy was losing the merchant war at sea until it changed it's tactics, the German's were winning the BoB until they changed theirs