If FFP didn't exist, would you like to see the Albion "go for it"?

[Guy Fawkes]

In answer to the original question, we should continue to be run sensibly and not gamble our long term future trying to reach the Premier League. Have people forgotten what we've been through in recent years and do they want a return to that sort of senario again? It smacks more of those fans who went through the bad times feeling that they should be rewarded for their loyalty through those bad times with Premier League football.

It was only a couple of seasons ago (1st season in the Amex) we'd all have been happy with Championship football in our new stadium, with the slim prospect of Premier League football, but now some don't seem to think that this is enough and Premier League football is the only way we can survive - I say to them, come back to reality, parachute payments are only a problem if we are trying to compete with them, but that is 10 teams from 24 so we should be ahead of the rest of the division on budgets, this means that we could reach the play-offs if everything goes well for us, but it's not a given, in the same way that having parachute payments are a guarentee of success (Wolves relegated to League 1). This means we have to get the right players in (at the right price if we wish to be competing at the right end of the table, even if this means it takes longer that they would have hoped)

We have until September 1st to get a competitive squad together, and if we fail to recruit the right perminent signings, there is always the loan market (and players we couldn't afford suddenly become available to us like Bridge if we can strike a deal with their parent club) so lets see what happens rather than saying as we've lost just 2 out ouf 46 games so far, we are doomed!

 

[Marshy]

Bridge was on 10K per week which was widely known. That's 3K a week less than we were prepared to pay Ward this time last week.

yeah but i bet PIG Bridcutt Upson Ulloa CMS Buckley etc are all on near 20k maybe even more

Exactly the reason why we have let these players go

 

[Hamilton]

Nope.

Perhaps we should stop over-paying footballers.

 

[Withdean11]

It depends what you mean by 'go for it'. If you mean spend silly moneylike Forrest, then no. But, for instance, I'm 100% sure that had Tony agreed to give Gus a summer of 'decent' player investment, we would have been promoted the year after we finished 4th, or even that season. It's obvious the fall out happened during the season, which effected our play off perfromance. We had a special manager, we was 2/3 players away from winning the league. We seem a long way from that now.

 

[Mr Putdown]

Nope.

Perhaps we should stop over-paying footballers.

This in a nutshell.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Do you mean "go for it" a la Abramovich, or in the manner of Pompey / Leeds?

I'm sure there aren't many Chelsea fans that would have preferred life 'pre-Abramovich' to the successes they've enjoyed after he bought into the club. I'm also sure Leeds fans would prefer not to have gambled and lost, trading probably long-term Prem safety for a very uncertain future in the lower divisions.

The bottom line is that we all know about parachute payments but what's harder to take is seeing clubs that don't have any parachute payments splashing the cash and outbidding us, i.e. Forest, Middlesbrough, possibly even Bournemouth now. Long-term, the prospect of watching boring football in an uncompetitive division is not attractive.

Which is why we shouldn't want to be in the most uncompetitive leagu e in the world (the Premier League) and turning up to see us beat virtually every week and left to fight it out with about half a dozen other teams trying to finish above the relegation zones.

far better to be in the Championship, a division where any team can beat any other team and that the outcome is unknown and who will win the league isn't being fought out by 3 teams (4 at a push)

To me, the Championship is a far more exciting prospect.

 

[Withdean11]

Which is why we shouldn't want to be in the most uncompetitive leagu e in the world (the Premier League) and turning up to see us beat virtually every week and left to fight it out with about half a dozen other teams trying to finish above the relegation zones.

far better to be in the Championship, a division where any team can beat any other team and that the outcome is unknown and who will win the league isn't being fought out by 3 teams (4 at a push)

To me, the Championship is a far more exciting prospect.

Sorry if i have misunderstood, but you're saying you don't want us to get promoted? That's like saying I'd rather us play in league 1 so we can win more games. Show some ambition.

 

[dwayne]

So many people seem to think Premier League = Money but it doesn't work like that.

Please explain your point

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Agree with this. Allow owners to do what they want with their own money. But if clubs then go into administration then they should start in league 2. Throw the book at them like what happened to Rangers. League 2 clubs need only to drop down a single division.

Darn. I forgot to add a paragraph on this. I was going to say that to counteract the gamblers like Pompey and Palace, administration should lead to an automatic relegation by an agreed number of divisions, be it 1 or 2 or 3.

Without this there is no stick to keep the more reckless owners in line.

This doesn't stop teams established in the Premier League from effectively running close to insolvent, but no creditor has the guts to call in the debt.

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

Please explain your point

Well player wages/fees are much higher for starters, then you have to factor in relegation. Theres a reason why all recently relegated teams have big debts.

Also, if it is all about the money - why are City, United, Chelsea etc all posting massive losses ?

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Well player wages/fees are much higher for starters, then you have to factor in relegation. Theres a reason why all recently relegated teams have big debts.

Also, if it is all about the money - why are City, United, Chelsea etc all posting massive losses ?

What like Norwich you mean? (from the Guardian website)

NORWICH CITY

Accounts for the year to 31 May 2012

Ownership: Majority owned by Delia Smith and her husband Michael Wynn-Jones

Turnover: 12th in league, £75m (up from £23m in 2011)

Gate receipts: £11m

TV and media: £50m

Commercial activities: £14m

Wage bill: 19th, £37m (up from £18m in 2011)

Wages as proportion of turnover: 49%

Profit before tax: £16m (from £7m loss in 2011)

Net debt: Nil; £1m net cash in the bank

Interest payable: £2m

Highest-paid director: £1,533,000 paid to unnamed director (David McNally is the chief executive)

State they're in:

The happy state of a club properly enjoying the first year of promotion to the Premier League. Norwich used the massive TV and commercial windfall, with income up £52m, to pay off all debt while keeping wages under control. Recorded a loss of £7m to win promotion in 2011, as many Championship clubs do, then competed well, finishing 12th on the Premier League's second to lowest wage bill. Made a £16m profit but Delia Smith and her husband Michael Wynn-Jones, the 53% owners, still had a £2m interest free loan to the club outstanding at the end of the year.

 

[Man of Harveys]

I voted Yes, but this is a ludicrously loaded poll, I'm sure the club with its recent activity would love it.

One of the recently added new truisms often touted around on NSC has been that there is absolutely no middle ground between either ripping the guts out of your team and sitting on the money you've made by doing so, or splashing any cash you have in order to get promoted to Prem, only to get relegated into the Conference because your business plan was based on winning the Champions League in the first year you qualify for it.

Is there really no middle ground between the two? I don't believe that.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Which is why we shouldn't want to be in the most uncompetitive leagu e in the world (the Premier League) and turning up to see us beat virtually every week and left to fight it out with about half a dozen other teams trying to finish above the relegation zones.

far better to be in the Championship, a division where any team can beat any other team and that the outcome is unknown and who will win the league isn't being fought out by 3 teams (4 at a push)

To me, the Championship is a far more exciting prospect.

So if every season we make the play-off final at Wembley and lose we'll have achieved your objective by finishing as high as we can without the hassle of getting promoted?

I get that Top 8 is beyond a club of our size, but I think you need to get promoted every now and again to enhance your status as a club. The likes of Boro and Forest are on our level in many respects but the fact they've been in the Prem gives them a "big club" aspect to their status.

 

[rippleman]

If football doesn't adopt the same financial regimes that they have in American Football, wages (and agents' payments) will continue to increase. We then have the options to pay - or not pay.

If we pay then there are the potential sanctions of FFP to consider (although I remain to be convinced that ultimately the FL won't bottle it). But if we pay it and are successful in reaching the PL, then with the riches of TV and the parachute payments, we are most unlikely to go bust!

If we don't pay the "going rate" for players, and we have to compete each week with clubs that are either giving FFP the finger or have parachute payments, then inevitably the quality of the product will deteriorate (as I fear we are already beginning to see).

If people don't want to pay the price for your product, and you are not willing to improve the quality of the product, then you either have to reduce the price of the product or run the risk that you won't make the sales. You then eventually reach the point where your sales drop to a level where you can't pay the bills anyway!

So what I'm saying is you either have to improve the product, or reduce the price. People won't pay PL prices to watch L1 standard football forever.

And I really do not think that our cause has been helped by that nice Mr Barber constantly spouting "Premier League Ready" at every opportunity. It is blatantly obvious that we are far from PLR. We may have the ground and infrastructure but ultimately it is the depth and quality of the playing squad that will get PL promotion. Unrealistically raising hopes & expectations will do us no good in the long run.

 

[London Irish]

Simplistic poll - will get a pre-determined response. The dog whistle language is too similar to Ridsdale's living the dream.

I think if there had been an option whereby we steadily spent the money for squad-building that was avaliable to Poyet in the first seasons of Amex, would have been interesting to see how many votes that would have got, it might have beaten the pious superfan option

 

[Bold Seagull]

Simplistic poll - will get a pre-determined response. The dog whistle language is too similar to Ridsdale's living the dream.

I think if there had been an option whereby we steadily spent the money for squad-building that was avaliable to Poyet in the first seasons of Amex, would have been interesting to see how many votes that would have got, it might have beaten the pious superfan option

Why does Gus need another option - it's pretty clear now he had the first option.

 

[London Irish]

Why does Gus need another option - it's pretty clear now he had the first option.

In what sense is it clear? He left because he didn't think he either had the first option or that if he had it at one stage, it would continue

 

[Bold Seagull]

In what sense is it clear? He left because he didn't think he either had the first option or that if he had it at one stage, it would continue

It's clear the money he had to spend on players and wages actually wasn't there - we're paying for it now. GP spent big as per option 1, that is what I am saying. Whether he thought that was enough for him is another discussion.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Sorry if i have misunderstood, but you're saying you don't want us to get promoted? That's like saying I'd rather us play in league 1 so we can win more games. Show some ambition.

What i am saying is that promotion to the top flight is NOT the only way to keep my support. I have supported the Albion all my life, through the bad times and the worst and i don't feel the club owes me anything in terms of where we should be playing in the football pyramid and how much we should continue to lose for the sake of trying to keep those few vocal demanding fans happy.

If we were to be promoted, would the demands from those who think the club are either ripping them off or not doing or spending enough to meet their demands / dreams will die down or will a new set of demands begin (we must spend more to stay up, we must compete for Europe or we will lose our JCLs or even now we have all this TV money, ticket prices should be made a lot cheaper, etc)

I'm saying that i am happy for the club to continue to be established at the Championship level without necessarily flighting it out for promotion, it's far more than i expected even just 5 years ago and the Championship has a lot going for it (competitive league where anyone can beat anyone, where the top few arn't already decided before the season starts, where it is the 4th best supported league in Europe (and possibly the world) and so on)

If we were promoted it would be brilliant, beyond my expectations of the club and i'd love it for as long as it lasted, but i wouldn't expect us to risk everything to try to achieve it and/or staying there and therefore risk a repeat of our homeless wilderness years or worse. It should be treated as an unexpected treat not and expectation, especially with the competition we face from clubs in the Championship who have parachute payments.

 

[Gwylan]

But if we pay it and are successful in reaching the PL, then with the riches of TV and the parachute payments, we are most unlikely to go bust!

Tell that to Leeds, Portsmouth, Palace ...