If a football club's fans behave like these RUDDY students (Merged)

[bhaexpress]

Oh for FUCKS sake, he didn't say that.

I don't know, seeing as so many people are prepared to distort the facts to meet their own agenda why shouldn't I ? I would have said that exactly what he said but not as bluntly. As a matter of interest how doers your own subsidised university education benefit myself and other tax payers ? It obviously must have helped you of course.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I would love to know how anybody here who went to university feels that their education has benefited me personally.

One last thing, in a small way my work touches millions around the world. I obviously do not wish this on you....but should you ever get one of three major neurological illnesses in the future.... I may well touch, and benefit you, as well.

 

[bhaexpress]

I heard a very good conversation of t'radio from some businessmen who thought the graduate tax could be a problem for the government as it would lead to a "brain drain" with graduates with science and maths degrees going abroad and therefore not paying any graduate tax at all.

David you raise a very valid point that crossed my mind. How do we the tax payers benefit from the education of the people who choose to live abroad for whatever reason be it financial or otherwise ?

 

[bhaexpress]

One last thing, in a small way my work touches millions around the world. I obviously do not wish this on you....but should you ever get one of three major neurological illnesses in the future.... I may well touch you as well.

In what way, do you clean the toilets of the scientists that do this work ? Well by that token I pay tax that helps pay for them so I'm doing my bit too. Bully for both of us.

 

[Simster]

I didn't go to university and the law made me go to school, not quite thought that through have you Simeon ? I paid for my CNE, my MCSE and my ITIL though.

Of course I have. Either you went to university and were being unreasonable, or you didn't and I conclude that your opinion is at least in part formed because of the fact that you didn't take advantage of free education when it was available, and consequently resent paying for those who did.

 

[The Spanish]

David you raise a very valid point that crossed my mind. How do we the tax payers benefit from the education of the people who choose to live abroad for whatever reason be it financial or otherwise ?

east germany used to have this problem until they built a massive f***ing wall and a minefield.

thats life.

we as one of the richest countries in the world are in no position to start bleating about brain drains. its a piss take argument coming from this country to say the least.

 

[Simster]

I don't know, seeing as so many people are prepared to distort the facts to meet their own agenda why shouldn't I ? I would have said that exactly what he said but not as bluntly. As a matter of interest how doers your own subsidised university education benefit myself and other tax payers ? It obviously must have helped you of course.

Obviously my own education doesn't benefit you directly, but as a general point the nation does need university educated people to undertake tasks in the national infrastructure that couldn't be done without a university education. Equally, and this is my point, the nation also needs jobs filling that can best be learned with apprenticeships.

But in my case, your point is a fair one - my degree (BA Business Studies) was a total waste of time given what my career is now. In fact it was a shit course. Still, by making people like me pay for my course in its entirety, you'll do the same with doctors, lawyers and engineers - and some of those absolutely DO need university education. We're in danger of throwing the baby out with the bath water, IMO.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

In what way, do you clean the toilets of the scientists that do this work ? Well by that token I pay tax that helps pay for them so I'm doing my bit too. Bully for both of us.

Well, you asked how someone else's education will benefit you. I gave you a very obvious answer, with a personal twist from me.

And you came back with a play-ground response. Brilliant.

I've just finished my sandwich.

 

[Simster]

east germany used to have this problem until they built a massive f***ing wall and a minefield.

thats life.

we as one of the richest countries in the world are in no position to start bleating about brain drains. its a piss take argument coming from this country to say the least.

Perfectly correct.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Taken from another thread on the student demo's but bang on!

Quote Originally Posted by Superphil View Post
''it might help if you had something viable to riot about, rather than imagining that you are more important than the rest of us, and are having a harder time of it than those of us on reduced earnings, struggling to meet our obligations, taxed through the nose on everything we buy with the money we do earn. Students are given money, which in many cases will never be repaid, and a which a large percentage of them piss it up against the wall in subsidised bars rather than showing a bit of respect to working people who are funding them.

Also perhaps if student behaviour over the past couple of decades hadn't become so depraved then they might get more respect and support, and maybe the need for some of these cuts and increases would have been diminished and less justifiable. Maybe they would have been studying harder, getting better degrees, then jobs and contributing back to the treasury in the form of taxes, to benefit the next wave of students and to ensure their futures, and perhaps prevented the need for cuts and increases. Who knows, if we had turned out some better graduates, rather than the drug addled (remember the dealers who were students at Uni of Sussex?), or the semi alcoholics hooked on shots and necking whole bottles of vodka of an evening, in the past 10 years, we may not have got into this state in the first place.

Either way, my sympathy is gone, rioting, criminal damage, pathetic attention seeking, they really have blown it IMO. Perhaps studenting should get back to being the privilege of those who deserve it, and who will make something of it, rather than governments trying to make us believe that everyone should go to university, regardless of whether they are intelligent enough. And don’t give me any of your small minded shit about wealth and privilege, if you deserve to go to university, then you will go, regardless of whether you are [perceived to be] rich or poor.

So go on then, slag me for being out of touch, of being small minded and middle class, which you undoubtedly will, I don’t care any more, I am fed up with this now. I am struggling right now, I am realistic to understand there is a global recession, which I don’t think is my fault, but I have to make sacrifices. If that also means there will be fewer students paid for by the taxpayer, then good, let’s just make sure the ones we do fund are worthwhile. And if when they graduate they get a high paying job, they can then repay the state (i.e. me and millions of others) for helping them to get there.''

Absolutely bang on! Perhaps we could start having anti-student demo's, a bit like the anti-facist mob, cos I would love to slap a few of the lazy c**ts about to teach em a lesson!

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

I heard a very good conversation of t'radio from some businessmen who thought the graduate tax could be a problem for the government as it would lead to a "brain drain" with graduates with science and maths degrees going abroad and therefore not paying any graduate tax at all.

Would be a big problem.

 

[sten_super]

Of course I have. Either you went to university and were being unreasonable, or you didn't and I conclude that your opinion is at least in part formed because of the fact that you didn't take advantage of free education when it was available, and consequently resent paying for those who did.

That's a completely circular argument. You're saying that if he did obtain a university education he's being unreasonable in denying others the opportunity, or he didn't go and is in some way bitter about the fact. Basically he's 'wrong' either way.

For what it's worth, I went to university, paid fees and took out c£10k of loan. However I support the government's moves to increase the amount that students pay, in the same way that I am supportive of the government's move to increase VAT and remove tax benefits that directly affect me. Does that make me a hypocrite?

 

[Simster]

Taken from another thread on the student demo's but bang on!

Or laughable, tedious rant depending on your point of view.

Phil is prattling on about student behaviour of the past 20 years as if that's something for the current generation to suffer for. And how many people demonstrated? Thousands I'd say. And how many rioted? I'm guessing Phil operates some double standards when it comes to treatment of football supporters over the behaviour of the minority.

 

[Simster]

That's a completely circular argument. You're saying that if he did obtain a university education he's being unreasonable in denying others the opportunity, or he didn't go and is in some way bitter about the fact. Basically he's 'wrong' either way.

Not quite. I simply don't agree with his argument that students should pay for their education in its entirety so I was looking to understand why he might feel quite so vehimently about the issue.

For what it's worth, I went to university, paid fees and took out c£10k of loan. However I support the government's moves to increase the amount that students pay, in the same way that I am supportive of the government's move to increase VAT and remove tax benefits that directly affect me. Does that make me a hypocrite?

I'm not quite sure how that could make you a hypocrite at all really.

 

[attila]

oh, lordy....only got a couple of mins to spare right now, haven't read all this, will just say -

Representative Democracy. Idea is: people stand for election on a manifesto, if you like what they say more than any of the others, you vote for them. Now we all know that there are bloody miniscule differences between the parties and they all basically dance to the same tune (one whistled by the City and Murdoch) but one of the differences was that the Lib Dems signed a pledge refusing to increase tuition fees. Then when they got a sniff of power they did exactly the opposite, leaving those who voted for them feeling completely betrayed. That makes a mockery of politics and devalues it to the point where it becomes even more meaningless. Claus von Clausewitz said that war is the continuation of politics by other means....of course, what we have now isn't war by any stretch of the imagination but it is the continuation of politics by other means. If you devalue the idea of democracy to the extent that the Lib Dems have done what other recourse do those affected have? Over, out, and off to Leicester.

 

[fruitnveg]

oh, lordy....only got a couple of mins to spare right now, haven't read all this, will just say -

Representative Democracy. Idea is: people stand for election on a manifesto, if you like what they say more than any of the others, you vote for them. Now we all know that there are bloody miniscule differences between the parties and they all basically dance to the same tune (one whistled by the City and Murdoch) but one of the differences was that the Lib Dems signed a pledge refusing to increase tuition fees. Then when they got a sniff of power they did exactly the opposite, leaving those who voted for them feeling completely betrayed. That makes a mockery of politics and devalues it to the point where it becomes even more meaningless. Claus von Clausewitz said that war is the continuation of politics by other means....of course, what we have now isn't war by any stretch of the imagination but it is the continuation of politics by other means. If you devalue the idea of democracy to the extent that the Lib Dems have done what other recourse do those affected have? Over, out, and off to Leicester.

Except the Lim Dems didn't win the election (and nor did any other party I hasten to add), They are the Junior/Minor party in a Coalition. They have little to no mandate to put their manifesto into action.

Those are the facts, its about time people started to accept this.

 

[Don Quixote]

They nearly got Prince Charles.

 

[seagulls4ever]

Except the Lim Dems didn't win the election (and nor did any other party I hasten to add), They are the Junior/Minor party in a Coalition. They have little to no mandate to put their manifesto into action.

Those are the facts, its about time people started to accept this.

The facts are Lib Dem MPs signed a pledge to vote against any rise in tuition fees, regardless of whether or not they were in a coalition. They promised to do something to entice votes, and then went back on that promise as soon as they were elected. That is not democracy.

 

[Simster]

Except the Lim Dems didn't win the election (and nor did any other party I hasten to add), They are the Junior/Minor party in a Coalition. They have little to no mandate to put their manifesto into action.

Those are the facts, its about time people started to accept this.

Why should they? If the LibDems couldn't form a government while protecting their core manifesto promises then they should have let the Tories form a minority government.

 

[The Spanish]

oh, lordy....only got a couple of mins to spare right now, haven't read all this, will just say -

Representative Democracy. Idea is: people stand for election on a manifesto, if you like what they say more than any of the others, you vote for them. Now we all know that there are bloody miniscule differences between the parties and they all basically dance to the same tune (one whistled by the City and Murdoch) but one of the differences was that the Lib Dems signed a pledge refusing to increase tuition fees. Then when they got a sniff of power they did exactly the opposite, leaving those who voted for them feeling completely betrayed. That makes a mockery of politics and devalues it to the point where it becomes even more meaningless. Claus von Clausewitz said that war is the continuation of politics by other means....of course, what we have now isn't war by any stretch of the imagination but it is the continuation of politics by other means. If you devalue the idea of democracy to the extent that the Lib Dems have done what other recourse do those affected have? Over, out, and off to Leicester.

thats cleared that up.