[Albion] I took a closer look at the goals conceded from set pieces...

[WATFORD zero]

Coaching this, coaching that, awful lot of conceded goals on set pieces with both CH and Potter, when do the players start to have some kind of responsibility in these situations?

Have to say I'm disappointed in your analysis. Loony though you may be, I've always found your views on football rather good.

The Villa goal (only one I remember offhand from seeing it at the time ), it was Webster's player who scored, after Webster was blocked by player coming from an offside position.

Hope your analysis of the other goals is better

My own view is that by the time you are looking at the header, the cross etc it's all over. It's about the runs and blocks before that. That's where we have been naive.

 

[Pint of Ale and a Burger]

Sorry,I mean vestergard,I don't know why I keep callin him velderman,I been listening to Warren to much.

 

[Swansman]

Have to say I'm disappointed in your analysis. Loony though you may be, I've always found your views on football rather good.

The Villa goal (only one I remember offhand from seeing it at the time ), it was Webster's player who scored, after Webster was blocked by player coming from an offside position.

Hope your analysis of the other goals is better

I think Webster is keeping track of the offside player and White on the dude who scored the goal? Could be wrong though at it was the most difficult situation to get a grip on.

 

[Questions]

There seems to be a trend here. We don’t know what the f..u+k we are talking about

 

[WATFORD zero]

There seems to be a trend here. We don’t know what the f..u+k we are talking about

Welcome to NSC.

 

[Questions]

Welcome to NSC.

I’m not having that newbie baiting....... I’ve been talking shite for years on here.

 

[blockhseagull]

I don’t think that it helps that every week we are playing a different back 3

White is playing ... then he is in midfield ... then he is back again

Burn is in... then out

Dunk is suspended then back.

Now I know some of them are unavoidable (suspensions) .... but why was White moved into midfield again last night ?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Yes,I have been pondering this.jc and Warren hinted at it after the goal but decided to move o.
I can't decide would a taller person have got to it or does Maty's athleticism take him to within the same touching distance as a taller keeper?
I can't decide as it was a rocket header quite well placed.
I stop short of blaming Mary because velderman should never have had the time or space to unleash such a header in the first place.

Leave Mary out of it !

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Or actually learn how to defend it.

It was an excellent header,but he should never had that much space.some one should have been all over him.

If we did things properly, someone would get right in Vestergard’s face and prevent him getting the power onto the ball, this is easily done by sticking your backside into his hip right at the last moment, because the body instinctively contorts in mid air to compensate for that legitimate contact, and the ball ends up 50p’ing off his head for a wide miss. This is one of the absolute very basics of coaching for aerial duels. But we had 8 men within six yards of Vestergard when he headed it, but not a single one got close enough to even blow on him. Truly awful, laughable, embarrassing lack of basic defensive coaching. But he does have a socking great big briefcase full of leadership textbooks, which is really useful in such a situation.

If every situation could be defended against there would be no goals in football at all. Yes it's right to review every goal conceded and work to improve how we defend it, but its not right to use every goal conceded as another reason to bash our team and coaches.

That goal didn't happen because of basic defensive errors, it happened because of brilliant movement by Vestergaard and a pinpoint cross that couldn't have been any better. He backed off taking Veltman with him, then sprinted forward to where the cross was planned. Absolutely impossible for Veltman to stay with him unless he was guessing and leaving Vestergaard alone in order to get to that spot first. Dunk did very well to get there but stopping that goal would have required a mistake in the cross or header or a lucky gamble by one of our players.

 

[junior]

Perhaps Potter has spent too much time writing the script for the next Swan Lake stage show and not enough time learning how to coach a team to defend free kicks.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Perhaps Potter has spent too much time writing the script for the next Swan Lake stage show and not enough time learning how to coach a team to defend free kicks.

Ye given thats he’s never done that it really would be likely

 

[maresfield seagull]

If every situation could be defended against there would be no goals in football at all. Yes it's right to review every goal conceded and work to improve how we defend it, but its not right to use every goal conceded as another reason to bash our team and coaches.

That goal didn't happen because of basic defensive errors, it happened because of brilliant movement by Vestergaard and a pinpoint cross that couldn't have been any better. He backed off taking Veltman with him, then sprinted forward to where the cross was planned. Absolutely impossible for Veltman to stay with him unless he was guessing and leaving Vestergaard alone in order to get to that spot first. Dunk did very well to get there but stopping that goal would have required a mistake in the cross or header or a lucky gamble by one of our players.

Or greater use of the dark arts of defending ?
How often does the shirt tugging / grappling actually get punished by a penalty ?
It’s been said elsewhere, We do need to get a bit more savvy on these game management tactics

 

[zefarelly]

Are we perhaps committing too many fouls around the box or corners that could be avoided. A ratio of set pieces conceded v set pieces that turn into goals might make a useful comparison against other teams stats

That's a difficult one when most of the concessions are diving cheats . . . . to avoid free kicks means avoiding contact, which allows them to walk it in!

 

[zefarelly]

Or greater use of the dark arts of defending ?
How often does the shirt tugging / grappling actually get punished by a penalty ?
It’s been said elsewhere, We do need to get a bit more savvy on these game management tactics

Savvy yes, but the fine margins are cheating. We are not a team/club of cheats . . . . . Admirable as that may be, it is costing us against most of our opposition, who are.

 

[SittingbourneSeagull]

It feels like we need to abandon zonal marking. It would also help if we had a keeper who was commanding in and around the 6 yard box. I actually like Ryan but a bigger keeper would make a difference to the defence and they way they defend set pieces. At the moment they know Ryan won't come and they are basically responsible for covering into the 6 yard box when they could be a few more yards forward.

 

[SittingbourneSeagull]

Have to say I'm disappointed in your analysis. Loony though you may be, I've always found your views on football rather good.

The Villa goal (only one I remember offhand from seeing it at the time ), it was Webster's player who scored, after Webster was blocked by player coming from an offside position.

Hope your analysis of the other goals is better

My own view is that by the time you are looking at the header, the cross etc it's all over. It's about the runs and blocks before that. That's where we have been naive.

Yeah pretty sure Veltman got blocked off on Monday allowing Westergaard a free run, and leaving Dunk to try and deal with it.

 

[SittingbourneSeagull]

If we did things properly, someone would get right in Vestergard’s face and prevent him getting the power onto the ball, this is easily done by sticking your backside into his hip right at the last moment, because the body instinctively contorts in mid air to compensate for that legitimate contact, and the ball ends up 50p’ing off his head for a wide miss. This is one of the absolute very basics of coaching for aerial duels. But we had 8 men within six yards of Vestergard when he headed it, but not a single one got close enough to even blow on him. Truly awful, laughable, embarrassing lack of basic defensive coaching. But he does have a socking great big briefcase full of leadership textbooks, which is really useful in such a situation.

100%- I said to my son when they got the corner that it would be just like us to concede straight after scoring. For all of the height at the back none of our centre halfs are that commanding in the air.

I also hate zonal marking.

 

[zamora the merrier]

If we did things properly, someone would get right in Vestergard’s face and prevent him getting the power onto the ball, this is easily done by sticking your backside into his hip right at the last moment, because the body instinctively contorts in mid air to compensate for that legitimate contact, and the ball ends up 50p’ing off his head for a wide miss. This is one of the absolute very basics of coaching for aerial duels. But we had 8 men within six yards of Vestergard when he headed it, but not a single one got close enough to even blow on him. Truly awful, laughable, embarrassing lack of basic defensive coaching. But he does have a socking great big briefcase full of leadership textbooks, which is really useful in such a situation.

Totally agree it is simply unacceptable to just say we have accept conceding goals like this - ditto Mina goal. Other teams don't allow us to score goals like that even though we have some decent height in the team (even more so when Burn plays

 

[zamora the merrier]

Coaching this, coaching that, awful lot of conceded goals on set pieces with both CH and Potter, when do the players start to have some kind of responsibility in these situations?

Like to see the stats but it seems as if it has got worse under Potter? Maybe because it is more recent

 

[sydney]

Chelsea

Goal: Zouma (or Webster)

Corner. March is marking Zouma at the edge of the penalty area and expects Zouma to run deeper into the box but he doesnt while March does, leaving Zouma alone to take a shot. The ball deflects on Webster and goes in behind Ryan.

Man Utd

Goal: Maguire

Free kick. March is marking some United player at the far post, the ball goes past everyone but the player that March was supposed to be marking is now free on the far post and puts it into the middle. Maguire, marked by Dunk, throws Dunk on the ground and scores.

Everton

Goal: DCL

Corner is taken short and quick and it takes a millisecond for Brighton to notice. Lamptey fails to stop the cross, the cross goes to the back post where White is marking but has his back against DCL, DCL scores the header.

Everton again

Goal: Mina

Free kick. Mina is pretty much marked by two players, Bissouma in front of him and Webster behind him. Bissouma looks like he is afraid of the flying giant and does nothing, Webster challenges him in the air but Mina wins the header. Its in Ryans area but as expected and perhaps wisely (he would have lost) he does not even attempt to challenge Mina in the air.

Aston Villa

Goal: Some Villa player

Free kick. Ben White is marking some Villa player. When the free kick comes in, White is on his heels unsure about the offside line and is too slow to react when his Some Villa player makes his run. Some Villa player scores.

Southampton
Goal: Vestergaard

Corner. Veltman is in charge of Vestergaad. The corner comes in and Vestergaard starts moving against the goal when Vestergaard swiftly changes direction and loses Veltman, and enters the zone Dunk is covering (Brighton does a mixture of marking and zone defending on corners, like pretty much every other team in 2020). Dunk jumps at least three or four centimeters but its not enough to prevent the much stronger and taller Vestergaard from getting a free header.

So what are the conclusions we can make from these situations? I dont ****ing know. I was "hoping" to find a clear pattern or a specific player responsible for most of the conceded set piece goals but its really like - new day, new player failing. The only common things you could see from the situations is 1) too much ball watching and too little player tracking and 2) the players scoring the goals are just physically superior to most Brighton players.

How to solve the issue? I dont know but I hope 190 cm Jakub Moder is good enough in general to challenge for a spot in the team and even though I'm far from a Ryan basher, I wont be crying the day Brighton gets a normal sized keeper that could realistically challenge the ball in these situations.

thats not how i saw vestegaards goal at all Gross was on him near the penalty spot , he lost Gross and Ward Prowse put it straight on his head before Dunk could get there ....would have thought Dan Burn at 204 cm could help if thats you logic.