I think I nearly got beaten up at the game last night!

[NMH]

threatening a poster with rape just goes to show the mentality of the armed forces.

It wasn't a threat for our forces to commit rape - he's saying it would be the kind of result if there was no military to keep invaders out.

If our fathers and mothers (or grandparents) were not involved in protecting Britain, then perhaps Italians Russians and Germans would have helped themselves, and treated Britons like they did to Poles and Jews.

In the case of Afghanistan, we might watch the Western World degrading while 'the mob' rake it in from selling their heroin to kids, kids who need to steal and murder in our country to pay for it.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Fair enough but what does this crass generalisation tell us about the arrogance of some liberals?
I was also against Mr Blair's war in Iraq.

Stop being sensible.

 

[Arthur]

I explained (or attempted to) that in my view war "heroes" were soldiers who defended their country, not ones who went off to fight uninvited in other countries.


Comments like that are the sort of things that make me question people in the Forces.

Coming from the bloke who is a part time actor/part time cleaner. Your old pop must be sooo proud!

I'm guessing he wished he had a wank that night eh!

 

[Nibble]

Coming from the bloke who is a part time actor/part time cleaner. Your old pop must be sooo proud!

I'm guessing he wished he had a wank that night eh!

Why? cos I question something? If you weren't such a reactionary and actually absorbed my other posts you will see I have respect for The Armed Forces. I just don't have blind faith in every person that joins up.

Think before you post next time, especially when you just come across as a second rate BarsMars, which is saying something.

 

[goldstone]

I explained (or attempted to) that in my view war "heroes" were soldiers who defended their country, not ones who went off to fight uninvited in other countries.

Im off to Afghanistan next friday for 6 months.

Its not my choice to decide where i go,but rest assured if it ever comest to defending my country on these shores i'll make sure im near your house and i'll be quite happy to let any foreign soldier into your house to RAPE you and your family!!!!

COCK.

Thank you, Junior. You are quite clearly a very nice person and I'm proud to think that you and people like you could be defending these shores if the enemy comes calling.

You volunteered to join the military. Right?

Why did you think you joined? To see the world?

From where I stand, the military is all about fighting. If you join up you might just have to go to war. Now, if it was to defend my country I might even consider participating (but only if all the jaw-jaw had got nowhere and war-war really was the only option).
Anyway, my point is that when you join up I guess you don't have the option to say "Yes, I'll fight here, but no thanks I won't fight here". So you've accepted he job, you know you might get killed or maimed following orders which you might not agree with, and off you go.
The question is, does that automatically make you a hero? In my book the answer is a big fat "no". I'm not saying that there are no military heroes in Iraq or Afghanistan. If you've saved a life etc. etc. then you probably are a hero. But you're not a hero just because you fought there.

On the other hand, in my opinion, anyone who fights to defend their country (and I mean a clear case of the baddies coming to get us) can probably be defined as a hero.

Anyway, whether you agree or not, that is my opinion.

 

[goldstone]

what a f***ing stupid thing to say whether you thought it or not
not very street wise, a lot of people would have smacked you one for that

So much for free speech.

I thought we fought some wars to ensure we had the right to voice our opinions?

 

[goldstone]

In the all-time list of "wish I didn't start that thread" category, this has got to be up there.

Actually I am very pleased I started this thread. It has certainly started an interesting debate.

 

[Eggmundo]

Why? cos I question something? If you weren't such a reactionary and actually absorbed my other posts you will see I have respect for The Armed Forces. I just don't have blind faith in every person that joins up.

Think before you post next time, especially when you just come across as a second rate BarsMars, which is saying something.

Pretentious twat.

 

[Nibble]

Pretentious twat.

Nice. Just read the posts and my opinion is quite clear. No real need for name calling whoever you are.

 

[Dave the OAP]

12 pages

 

[Monsieur Leclerc]

From where I stand, the military is all about fighting. If you join up you might just have to go to war. Now, if it was to defend my country I might even consider participating (but only if all the jaw-jaw had got nowhere and war-war really was the only option).

Anyway, my point is that when you join up I guess you don't have the option to say "Yes, I'll fight here, but no thanks I won't fight here". So you've accepted he job, you know you might get killed or maimed following orders which you might not agree with, and off you go.

The question is, does that automatically make you a hero? In my book the answer is a big fat "no".

There is a certain amount of training. You can't just turn up on the day of the war and have someone show you the ropes, the do's and don't and where the toilet paper is kept. By singing up, they are ready to defend their own country, but also involved in wars beyond our border - it happens! It is not about just defending our own country, but defending others.

 

[Gully]

...I would only give it 8 before the protagonists either go nuclear or invite each other out for a scrap...just my opinion loike.

 

[London Calling]

whaT EVER the right and wrongs of Goldstone remark, I DON'T think anyone on here should condone violence againgst him, and that is a problem with this society of ours, too many people morally think its OK to give someone a slap.

WE ARE a violent society and we only cringe when some youths decide an old bloke, is being too much of a busy body and decide to give hime a toe in.

As a free society Goldstone has a right to make his remarks, however, distasteful or inappropriate, without him coming under the threat of violence.

Otherwise mob law will prevail and then why are our troops fighting at all?

LC

 

[maffew]

So much for free speech.

I thought we fought some wars to ensure we had the right to voice our opinions?

ah the free speech argument, it sounds like you wanted a reaction and got it

think you need to wise up and know when to keep your gob shut by the sounds of it or you probably will get beaten up, has it happened before?

 

[steward 433]

This post just goes to show how thick and stupid the armed forces are. The UK were NOT invited into Sadam's Iraq. And threatening a poster with rape just goes to show the mentality of the armed forces.

DON'T generalise evryone who has been in the armed forces as thick! I wouldn't have got to where i am in life or got the qualifications i have if i was. As for stupid and thick look at some of your own posts?


Agree the rape comment was OTT though

 

[NMH]

Actually I am very pleased I started this thread. It has certainly started an interesting debate.

Oh well, that's nice.

I suppose if you went to a funeral and just as the vicar was giving the eulogy, you expressed your opinion that the deceased was a bit of a twat. It would be pleasing to stir things up and start an interesting debate about what kind of a twat they were.

Well great then, give y'self a pat on the back, you are well in touch with human emotions and sensitivities, and would make a wonderful politician or after dinner speaker.

 

[Nibble]

I have to say I think Goldstone is getting quite a bit more stick than is fair. I agree that it wasn't very sensible to say what he said around people he doesn't know but it is his opinion.

 

[NMH]

I have to say I think Goldstone is getting quite a bit more stick than is fair. I agree that it wasn't very sensible to say what he said around people he doesn't know but it is his opinion.

I dunno, but I thought the responses he is getting was also opinion. Even though some of them intimate they think he wants smacking - he seems to see this as an "interesting debate".

Looking in the ol' chrystal ball here, I'm doubting his chance of learning much from it though, like when to and when not to express controversial opinions in public perhaps?

 

[Nibble]

Fair do's

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

At half time the announcer said something about the club having invited some crippled war heroes from the conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq along to the game.

I said, "Heroes?"

At which point two fine gentlemen looked as though they were about to set about me. Much shouting and waving of fists ensued as they proceeded to tell me that one had a son in the army, our "boys" were doing a great job, etc etc.

I explained (or attempted to) that in my view war "heroes" were soldiers who defended their country, not ones who went off to fight uninvited in other countries.

The response (accompanied by much shouting, swearing and aggression) was that they didn't ask to go to Iraq or Afghanistan and were just doing their jobs.

I mumbled something about opposing the Iraq and Afghanistan operations and being entitled to an opinion, to which another guy nearby responded that he didn't disagree with me, but that I should have probably kept my opinions to myself.

At that point I walked away.

What I should have added is that anyone else who gets injured "doing their job" is not automatically called a hero. So why should the military?

It also occured to me that if I had said "heroes!" rather than "heroes?", I would not have had a problem. Interesting how the difference between an exclamation mark and a question mark after a word, even when you're speaking not writing, can make a difference between getting attacked or not!!

Anyway, the two gentlemen in question were certainly not the most savoury of our fellow Seagulls supporters!

Though having served in the armed forces, I can't speak for all my ex-colleagues but generally we never looked for the title of Hero, we just wanted a bit of respect for a difficult job well done. Prior to the falklands we were drunken scum who were a discrase to our ship/regiment/squadron (circle as appropriate), but in a space of a few days we were heroes.
It has always been thus, from the time of Cromwell onwards. Bastards when things are quiet, heroes when the shit hits the fan. As has been pointed out, Goldstone should take his ire out on the politicians who allow such a situation to happen, and not those who have the uneviable task of being in the mix. Though he states otherwise I suspect that Goldstone thinks the average member of the armed forces is beneath him mainly because they volunteered to join. Again this has always been the case.

If everyone took his attitude then there would be no armed forces and we would have a bit of a problem.

Whether you are defending the GB on British soil or sn a hole in some far flung isle, rounds, grenades, mines etc still kill, maim and injure. The pain is no different, the crap medical facilities are the same. The indifference of the british people a year down the line is generally the same, granted poppy day is well supported but for the 350 days in the year .... well Goldstome has answered that for us.

Should he have been threatened with violence ... No, should he spend sometime with the injured and maimed .. Yes ..

But ... it has always been thus.

Even though a Rock Ape ...... Junior Good luck, keep safe and don't do anything stupid