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I think even SLB now agrees that Cameron deserves to be re elected.



1066familyman

Radio User
Jan 15, 2008
15,235
Or those who think Benefits are a lifestyle choice.

The fact is that since Thatcher sold off the social housing family silver to buy working class votes and no government, Labour ,Tory or coalition, has ever returned it, a life on benefits WHILST WORKING FULL TIME is not a "lifestyle choice" but a cold hard reality.

You carry on believing everyone on benefits is making a "lifestyle choice" though if it makes you happy.

Bollox!, that last one was meant to be my last post as well :facepalm:
 




Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,530
The arse end of Hangleton
Why do you think people who are left wing are stupid b*******?

Doesn't suggest a very considered manner of thinking?

Calm down dear - he didn't say ALL lefties were stupid b******ds.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,029
Of course tax credits aren't a direct subsidy paid to business, but if you think tax credits really aren't subsidising business profits then you're either being naive (which, knowing your history on here, I find highly unlikely) or deliberately misrepresenting the "manifest facts".

there's nothing misrepresented on my behalf. if one wants to say that as a result of tax credits, wage demands are lower and therefore some companies can pay less in a suppressed wage market, than make that point. lets not make the claim that the system has the purpose of subsidising companies, as im certain that was not Brown's intention.
 








drew

Drew
NSC Patron
Oct 3, 2006
23,632
Burgess Hill
i have no doubt there are issues and that the workload is high. my point is this hasnt changed significantly in the past government. the pay award was not great but generally the NHS funding has been maintained and staff levels has too give or take a couple of thousand, which is a tiny proportion of the size of the workforce. if things are so bad when the funding has increased and 99% of the staff are the same, then it must have been on the edge before, right? if the arguement is that the increases need to more than they have been, then lets hear the case for that, why and where the funding needs to be made, and why that wasnt being planned for before.

You seem to be ignoring a massive, un-necessary, re-organisation of the sector that used up resources. As I said, the sector has never been perfect but most of the people I know that work for the NHS feel it is far worse now than it was prior to 2010.

As for planning, look at how many extra primary school places will be needed in 2016. The vast majority of those are down to children born here during the last Government yet they steadfastly refused to allow local authorities to build new schools, only allowing free schools (many in areas where there wasn't any pressure on demand for places) or academies. They could extend existing schools but won't that mean building on available land on the site, most likely the school field!!!
 


Hampster Gull

Well-known member
Dec 22, 2010
13,465
Hard decisions need to be made about the NHS. A non party group to decide how best to use the money allocated. Can we afford to cover everything given the increased demand caused by an ageing population. Equipment becoming ever more complicated and expensive. More drugs to cover more illness. There will never be enough money to cover everything. All in favour of charging those who miss appointments and those with problems caused by too much drink. Cut out time wasters somehow. i.e those who turn up at the doctors every week for spurious reasons. National campaign against obesity.
Make nursing a non graduate profession. I want caring and compassion, can these be taught not a really well educated academic who thinks it beneath them to give time to a patient and clean the urine etc from the elderly. Rant caused by visit to a certain ward in London

Thats a good post. We need a more grown up debate about this issue. As i said early spending as a percentage of GDP has doubled since the 1960s (and GDP has grown massively) but its still not enough. An extra few billion here and there will not sort it by itself.
 


Hampster Gull

Well-known member
Dec 22, 2010
13,465
Oh... So right wing ideology to do with greedy accumulation of wealth and capital has got nothing to do with it? Encouraging comfortably wage earning people to build their own little "property portfolio" based on massive debts has had no effect on the working of the housing market?

And then as prices started to rise - instead of managing the situation, the correct response was to relax lending criteria further so that people could borrow ever higher salary multiples over ever longer periods of time... that teeny little demand side factor also had no impact...? Only now does the casino limit seemed to have been reached as the drawbridge is pulled up to protect the asset values of the top 30%. Well done Tories.

Of course demand side has a huge impact, i didnt say otherwise. There have been recent attempts to cool the market, eg applying interest rates at 7% to test affordability which has slowed the market down, but i agree mixed messages are sent. I believe though that the problem is solved through building more not with with a soviet union style 5 year plan
 






hart's shirt

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2003
11,082
Kitbag in Dubai
I think even SLB now agrees that Cameron deserves to be re elected.

Don't say a prayer for Dave now
Save it 'til the morning after.
 






drew

Drew
NSC Patron
Oct 3, 2006
23,632
Burgess Hill
Thats a good post. We need a more grown up debate about this issue. As i said early spending as a percentage of GDP has doubled since the 1960s (and GDP has grown massively) but its still not enough. An extra few billion here and there will not sort it by itself.

By grown up, I assume you are talking about how to limit what individuals and/or conditions are excluded.
 


RexCathedra

Aurea Mediocritas
Jan 14, 2005
3,509
Vacationland
In many parts of the NE England its the only choice for many. Was it not the Tories that put an end to the steel works and coal mines?

N. England, especially the Northeast, is rapidly becoming 'Not really England', isn't it?
The Great Wen is slowly absorbing everything...
 


Hampster Gull

Well-known member
Dec 22, 2010
13,465
By grown up, I assume you are talking about how to limit what individuals and/or conditions are excluded.

We need a debate on what the country is willing to invest and how best that money is spent. individuals, no. Conditions and associated circumstances why not. Proportion of wealth invested, yes. How its best provided, yes.
 




Puppet Master

non sequitur
Aug 14, 2012
4,056
Much improved economy, low unemployment, understands the NHS needs massive financial support and the prospect of no inheritance tax for working class families. Even SLB I think agrees.

Lots of campaigning along the Kings Road yesterday, thankfully not a ukip in sight.

Are you really the dude from Duran Duran? Can't tell you how much I want you to be
 


Seagull on the wing

New member
Sep 22, 2010
7,458
Hailsham
NHS nearly irreparably damaged, AAA credit rating lost, recovery delayed by two years, record number of working families in poverty, tax avoiding companies subsidised to pay minimum wage and avoid giving workers job security.
About 10% of estates currently pay any inheritance tax, still historically very low.
The most corrosive government in history.
I asked before,please define POVERTY,because a lot of you do not understand the meaning of the word...please,don't mention foodbanks...we didn't have them in the fifties and sixties,a lot of people never had a Television,life was much harder then than now, yet they didn't go around pleading poverty,just go and stand outsiude the food banks and watch as they turn up with designer sportswear usually with an iPhone...So your defination of POVERTY is.....?
 


Bucky

New member
Nov 29, 2014
35
I asked before,please define POVERTY,because a lot of you do not understand the meaning of the word...please,don't mention foodbanks...we didn't have them in the fifties and sixties,a lot of people never had a Television,life was much harder then than now, yet they didn't go around pleading poverty,just go and stand outsiude the food banks and watch as they turn up with designer sportswear usually with an iPhone...So your defination of POVERTY is.....?

I detest your ignorance.
 






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