I saw your Dad at Ascot...

[wakeytom]

Went with a group from work a few years ago........absolute carnage all around the place. Hundreds so shitfaced they couldn't stand, couples very obviously shagging in the car park, several fights.

Sounds like a fun group to be with - always something going on at least

 

[Bold Seagull]

It was the comment about football banning orders. Just seeing how the Old Bill treated the recent marches/demos in London compared with how they react with football fans is proof that the police regard us as fair game for anything.

Exactly, some forces (not all) will use things such as Section 27 of the Violent Crime Reduction Act to treat fans as second class citizens and unlawfully restrict their movement.

Horseracing, rugby and cricket fans can bring drinks to the seats to watch their sport, but football fans can't because we can't be trusted.

The joke being that the folk watching the rugby, cricket and racing will generally be football fans too.

It's pathetic.

Well, without wishing to defend the police, trouble at other sports, or like this video happen between a couple of individuals and no one feels any great need to do anything other than break it up and keep the peace. Stick some football colours or affiliation on either of them, and it all gets very tribal, and quickly escalates, too many at football still would love nothing more than to have jumped in with these 2 in the video. Let's face it, there are still plenty who do their best to ensure football is not trusted. So like so many other things a few idiots and we're all tainted with the same brush.

 

[Buzzer]

Well, without wishing to defend the police, trouble at other sports, or like this video happen between a couple of individuals and no one feels any great need to do anything other than break it up and keep the peace. Stick some football colours or affiliation on either of them, and it all gets very tribal, and quickly escalates, too many at football still would love nothing more than to have jumped in with these 2 in the video. Let's face it, there are still plenty who do their best to ensure football is not trusted. So like so many other things a few idiots and we're all tainted with the same brush.

I mentioned specifically the way police handled recent violent demos and/or demos where incitement to racial hatred had been openly carried out in London in full glare of the police. Compare and contrast with the way that they police football. Nothing to do with idiots with football affiliations and everything to do with police hypocrisy.

 

[Buzzer]

I'd also add that your post might explain the different policing employed by police but it certainly doesn't explain the differences in sentencing where a bit of fisticuffs for a football fan with no prior police record can get a jail sentence and this pikey twonk at Ascot probably won't even get a caution.

 

[The Large One]

I mentioned specifically the way police handled recent violent demos and/or demos where incitement to racial hatred had been openly carried out in London in full glare of the police. Compare and contrast with the way that they police football. Nothing to do with idiots with football affiliations and everything to do with police hypocrisy.

Fully agree.

I'm pleased the likes of Darren Balkham take a more enlightened view of football culture and behaviour. I wish he could spread that consideration a bit further and wider across the country.

It's no coincidence that he is often involved in planning of major sporting (mostly football) events in south east England. He was one of the go-to liaison officers when, for example, the Champions League final was held a Wembley, and (I believe) for the more mundane Olympics in London.

 

[wakeytom]

Well, without wishing to defend the police, trouble at other sports, or like this video happen between a couple of individuals and no one feels any great need to do anything other than break it up and keep the peace. Stick some football colours or affiliation on either of them, and it all gets very tribal, and quickly escalates, too many at football still would love nothing more than to have jumped in with these 2 in the video. Let's face it, there are still plenty who do their best to ensure football is not trusted. So like so many other things a few idiots and we're all tainted with the same brush.

The police stoke this fire, treating humans like cattle turns them in to animals. Then provoking football fans so you can hit them with batons (when the other party is unarmed) which I have seen more than enough times in my past 20 years of going to matches just adds to the problems. I have little respect for the way the police often act when at football matches - if they were the same way out on the streets they would lose their badge (and batons) but apparently against football fans its ok, and if they get their kicks even better

 

[Buzzer]

I'm pleased the likes of Darren Balkham take a more enlightened view of football culture and behaviour. I wish he could spread that consideration a bit further and wider across the country.

Brighton fans jailed for first time offences after scrapping with Palace fans at King's Cross. Brighton fans supporting England abroad getting banning orders based on video evidence alone presented to magistrates after finally snapping at Russian hoolies who had been attacking England fans for days. Brighton fan getting a banning order for celebrating a goal by jumping onto the pitch and shaking the goal netting. Brighton fans getting banning orders for a beer fight.

PC Balkham enlightened? If that's enlightenment then my name is Galileo.

 

[dazzer6666]

Sounds like a fun group to be with - always something going on at least

I wish [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

 

[Bold Seagull]

I'd also add that your post might explain the different policing employed by police but it certainly doesn't explain the differences in sentencing where a bit of fisticuffs for a football fan with no prior police record can get a jail sentence and this pikey twonk at Ascot probably won't even get a caution.

I don't disagree with that to be honest, in fact, in terms of banning orders, I'm probably not far off guilty each time I attend!
Football banning orders – Football Spectators Act 1989, s.14A Available on conviction of a ‘relevant offence’, listed in schedule 1 of the Football Spectators Act 1989. These include:

possession of alcohol or being drunk while entering/trying to enter ground – Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol etc) Act 1985, s.2;

 

[Bold Seagull]

The police stoke this fire, treating humans like cattle turns them in to animals. Then provoking football fans so you can hit them with batons (when the other party is unarmed) which I have seen more than enough times in my past 20 years of going to matches just adds to the problems. I have little respect for the way the police often act when at football matches - if they were the same way out on the streets they would lose their badge (and batons) but apparently against football fans its ok, and if they get their kicks even better

Perhaps I'm a goody-two-shoes (who moi!?) but I can't say I've seen any in the last 10 years, not in the last 5. When was the last time you were watching a Brighton game when the batons came out?

 

[wakeytom]

Perhaps I'm a goody-two-shoes (who moi!?) but I can't say I've seen any in the last 10 years, not in the last 5. When was the last time you were watching a Brighton game when the batons came out?

Not a Brighton game but used to have it at Sunderland. Will get it at Millwall next season I am sure. Man United it was often heavy handed and QPR in the cup last season funnily enough. Having a pint at half time at Arsenal the police were throwing their weight around for no reason, a relegated team having a bit of a party. No need for it

 

[el punal]

The police stoke this fire, treating humans like cattle turns them in to animals. Then provoking football fans so you can hit them with batons (when the other party is unarmed) which I have seen more than enough times in my past 20 years of going to matches just adds to the problems. I have little respect for the way the police often act when at football matches - if they were the same way out on the streets they would lose their badge (and batons) but apparently against football fans its ok, and if they get their kicks even better

I do find your comments somewhat strange regarding "the police stoke this fire, and treating humans like cattle turns them into animals". I too have been to matches over the last 20 years (well 52 to be precise) and have found them to be ok. Having said that a lot were less friendly in the 1970/80s, with probably good reason to be with the amount of football violence that went on then.

In the last 20 years in all the home and away games that I've attended I've had no cause to complain about them or the way they deal with trouble. Now it could be that I enjoy going to football, like a few beers, enjoy chatting to opposition fans and therefore have no axe to grind concerning the Old Bill. You, obviously, have different concerns - care to elaborate?

 

[wakeytom]

I do find your comments somewhat strange regarding "the police stoke this fire, and treating humans like cattle turns them into animals". I too have been to matches over the last 20 years (well 52 to be precise) and have found them to be ok. Having said that a lot were less friendly in the 1970/80s, with probably good reason to be with the amount of football violence that went on then.

In the last 20 years in all the home and away games that I've attended I've had no cause to complain about them or the way they deal with trouble. Now it could be that I enjoy going to football, like a few beers, enjoy chatting to opposition fans and therefore have no axe to grind concerning the Old Bill. You, obviously, have different concerns - care to elaborate?

I am exactly the same enjoy going to the football for a beer, often food catch up with friends and have a laugh with fans from both clubs. Have never looked for trouble and dont want to be involved in any.

Maybe you will find this season if you go to games where there are 40/50k people but I have been caught up in Police Kettling before for simply leaving the ground at the end of the game, where there is no reason for it. It is not all police however I have seen more than I understand the reason behind. I go to many events all through the year from music to other sporting events etc and never see the same heavy handed force.

That was my point. Problem is a few bad eggs stick in my mind and as is human nature they are the ones you remember