“I do not take my mandate from the European people.”

[CheeseRolls]

Some on here may not remember, but at the turn of the century there was a government ad campaign aimed at business 'Are you ready'. This was designed to get business ready to convert to the euro, because if we didn't, we would lose 3m jobs in this country. Hmm we didn't convert and we didn't lose 3m jobs.
Always the same 3m jobs to be lost, its all sounding familiar. Europe has shown itself to be inept in foreign policy, undemocratic, fraudulent on its accounts, weak in the face of Herr Merkel, unable to agree on how to police its borders, an internal bully pushing smaller nations around, uncomptetative on the world market, slow in technological development and now the expose at VW about misleading its customers and destroying its green credentials.
For its cost, its very difficult to justify to the man in the street that its worth it, this will be a close run thing.

Not sure I understand it quite like that. Anyone who was still trying to do business in French Francs or Italian Lira would have faced a tough time.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

I appreciate that there are other threads on the EU. However the above quote in today's Independent by the European Commisisoner for Trade so sums up the contempt the Eurocrats and Governments have for the people of Europe I thought people should see it rather than it be lost in an argument about the Pros and Cons of the EU.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...the-eu-official-in-charge-of-it-a6690591.html

Left to my own devices and If i didnt hear another eurocrat or politician tell me why I should vote to stay in, I would in fact vote yes to stay in. Every time I hear them speak i feel an incredible urge to vote no, just to wipe the condescension off their faces.

Personally I dont believe we will be allowed to leave the EU. The result will come back with a yes vote whatever. It is too important for global capitalism for Britain to remain in. I also think there are good reasons for us to remain in. But when I hear this I wonder why they are so afraid of the european people deciding things for themselves.

For the record John Hilary author of the article is executive director of War on Want. He is one of the leading advocates for opposition to TTIP. This doesnt negate the fact that the commisioner is so dismissive of democratic accountability.

An interesting post. Two queries...

1. Are you saying in your penultimate para that even if the vote is 'Leave', the government will conceal the fact?

2. The Indy article included this: "The European Commission makes no secret of the fact that it takes its steer from industry lobbies such as BusinessEurope and the European Services Forum, much as a secretary takes down dictation." Does anyone know what evidence there is for this, or is the author creating just one more urban myth to go on the shelf with straight bananas?

 

[Castello]

An interesting post. Two queries...

1. Are you saying in your penultimate para that even if the vote is 'Leave', the government will conceal the fact?

2. The Indy article included this: "The European Commission makes no secret of the fact that it takes its steer from industry lobbies such as BusinessEurope and the European Services Forum, much as a secretary takes down dictation." Does anyone know what evidence there is for this, or is the author creating just one more urban myth to go on the shelf with straight bananas?

What I am saying is the government, the EU and the large corporations will spend as much as they need to to spread fear about the consequences of leaving in order to ensure there is a yes vote. This will be whether the propaganda is truthful or just random scaremongeriung as happened in the scottish referendum. This will make it extrememly hard for a fair and balanced informed debate about what the real benefits and problems with eu membership are. Should this still result in a no vote, then we will see a campaign to have a second referndum much like happened in france and ireland when they voted against the lisbon treaty.

This will result in us remaining in with much anger on the no side.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I appreciate that there are other threads on the EU. However the above quote in today's Independent by the European Commisisoner for Trade so sums up the contempt the Eurocrats and Governments have for the people of Europe I thought people should see it rather than it be lost in an argument about the Pros and Cons of the EU.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...the-eu-official-in-charge-of-it-a6690591.html

Left to my own devices and If i didnt hear another eurocrat or politician tell me why I should vote to stay in, I would in fact vote yes to stay in. Every time I hear them speak i feel an incredible urge to vote no, just to wipe the condescension off their faces.

Personally I dont believe we will be allowed to leave the EU. The result will come back with a yes vote whatever. It is too important for global capitalism for Britain to remain in. I also think there are good reasons for us to remain in. But when I hear this I wonder why they are so afraid of the european people deciding things for themselves.

For the record John Hilary author of the article is executive director of War on Want. He is one of the leading advocates for opposition to TTIP. This doesnt negate the fact that the commisioner is so dismissive of democratic accountability.

You and I share a lot of common views. I have always favoured 'Europe' in the belief it has kept war in Erope at bay. But as someone else said, it has become like EUFA (and FIFA). Maybe it is time to tell them to sod off (just as I am convinced the big football nations should quit FIFA and form an elite).

It all worries me, though.

 

[AlbionPics&SouthCoastTwit]

I do not take my date (man) from the European people.

 

[pastafarian]

the anti brigade are scratching at straws with their opening salvo yesterday(Sir Rose Brigade)

every family would be £3000 annually worse off if we left the EU
3 million people would lose their jobs if we left the EU

both statements rubbish and have been previously ridiculed ........it wont stop the lies though.......why cant the pro campaign just tell the truth and why on their opening day pitch ignore the whole issue of immigration........you want to believe the shit these people are spinning you go ahead............

 

[Brighton Mod]

Not sure I understand it quite like that. Anyone who was still trying to do business in French Francs or Italian Lira would have faced a tough time.

The ad campaign was not just targeted at those trading internationally, it was targeted at domestic business s also. Irrespective of your understanding, we didn't lose 3m jobs by not entering the euro.

 

[Brighton Mod]

the anti brigade are scratching at straws with their opening salvo yesterday(Sir Rose Brigade)

every family would be £3000 annually worse off if we left the EU
3 million people would lose their jobs if we left the EU

both statements rubbish and have been previously ridiculed ........it wont stop the lies though.......why cant the pro campaign just tell the truth and why on their opening day pitch ignore the whole issue of immigration........you want to believe the shit these people are spinning you go ahead............

Its always 3m, but it never seems to happen. I'm not sure Sir Stuart Rose is a good man to head the yes campaign. Comes a cross as stuffed suit, knighted because he ran a large high street chain, for which he was handsomely paid, over which he saw a gentle decline. I think we will hear 3m jobs lost over and over again. Its early days to be getting out such scare tactics, I wonder how they will start ramping it up from here?

 

[pastafarian]

Its always 3m, but it never seems to happen. I'm not sure Sir Stuart Rose is a good man to head the yes campaign. Comes a cross as stuffed suit, knighted because he ran a large high street chain, for which he was handsomely paid, over which he saw a gentle decline. I think we will hear 3m jobs lost over and over again. Its early days to be getting out such scare tactics, I wonder how they will start ramping it up from here?

he is the ideal person to run the IN campaign,he reeks of what the EU is all about,Big Business and fat cats getting richer at the expense of the average Joe.I am wholehearted free market loving Tory who believes in a higher minimum wage but even me who is supposed to be a baby eating sadist can see the EU benefits no one except corrupt capitalists who put their profits above any worker rights......its a vile corrupt institution,administrating the very worst aspects of capitalism and non democracy......i am still astonished and yet at the same time not surprised who does and who does not support this gravy train.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

he is the ideal person to run the IN campaign,he reeks of what the EU is all about,Big Business and fat cats getting richer at the expense of the average Joe.I am wholehearted free market loving Tory who believes in a higher minimum wage but even me who is supposed to be a baby eating sadist can see the EU benefits no one except corrupt capitalists who put their profits above any worker rights......its a vile corrupt institution,administrating the very worst aspects of capitalism and non democracy......i am still astonished and yet at the same time not surprised who does and who does not support this gravy train.

Quite right, you just have to look at how the EU handled the situation in Ireland by pushing throw a second vote on the Lisbon Treaty, and recently how they handled the situation with this ongoing economic migrant crisis forcing countries to accept quotas, that's bullying.

 

[BigGully]

It is the same old faces spewing out inaccurate forecasts just as they did with the join the Euro campaign.

 

[cunning fergus]

Its always 3m, but it never seems to happen. I'm not sure Sir Stuart Rose is a good man to head the yes campaign. Comes a cross as stuffed suit, knighted because he ran a large high street chain, for which he was handsomely paid, over which he saw a gentle decline. I think we will hear 3m jobs lost over and over again. Its early days to be getting out such scare tactics, I wonder how they will start ramping it up from here?

It's strange that commercial interests are always pushed to the fore in this debate, the potential loss of jobs issue is never far from the surface of commentators and some politicians.

Yesterday's news story about the British pensioner fancying the lash highlighted (again) our commercial relationship with Saudi Arabia and calls for ending commercial deals did not bring this item to the fore...........it would appear some British politicians are willing to sacrifice some British workers jobs for some political reasons.

They can't have their cake and eat it............

 

[beorhthelm]

i'd like to see some of the workings and evidence behind the 3m job losses. is that 2.6m rounded up? why isnt 2.1m or 3.9m? its a little over 10% of the workforce, i have doubts whether that many are directly employed in EU facing jobs, so suspect there's a lot of estimation on indirect impact. and is it net or gross, if our friends at Google etc have to relocate jobs to the UK is this accounted for?

 

[Simster]

Its always 3m, but it never seems to happen. I'm not sure Sir Stuart Rose is a good man to head the yes campaign. Comes a cross as stuffed suit, knighted because he ran a large high street chain, for which he was handsomely paid, over which he saw a gentle decline. I think we will hear 3m jobs lost over and over again. Its early days to be getting out such scare tactics, I wonder how they will start ramping it up from here?

I really couldn't agree more and nearly posted exactly this a couple of days ago.

 

[pastafarian]

Quite right, you just have to look at how the EU handled the situation in Ireland by pushing throw a second vote on the Lisbon Treaty, and recently how they handled the situation with this ongoing economic migrant crisis forcing countries to accept quotas, that's bullying.

some call it bullying some call it undemocratic fascism ,the latter is probably a little extreme but its really not far off the mark when you ask how democratic the system of the EU is.
I would like us to be our own boss on the world stage with our own laws and our own judicial powers........i understand some people are quite happy to not have this and be controlled by an unelected Europe........i just really dont understand why they would want this........its a totally alien concept to me

 

[pastafarian]

i'd like to see some of the workings and evidence behind the 3m job losses. is that 2.6m rounded up? why isnt 2.1m or 3.9m? its a little over 10% of the workforce, i have doubts whether that many are directly employed in EU facing jobs, so suspect there's a lot of estimation on indirect impact. and is it net or gross, if our friends at Google etc have to relocate jobs to the UK is this accounted for?

its an absolute load of bollocks
it is now known officially as scare tactic 1

i have info on how crap this statistic is,cant be arsed to find it right now but will try to get back to you by the end of the day