[Albion] Hughton supporters

[Bold Seagull]

But Southampton did change and improved greatly.

What many of us are arguing, isn't change to avoid relegation, it's change to improve the crap football. So what if we go down? That's inevitable at some point for a club of our size. And if we do, well the entertainment is better in the Championship. It's nothing to fear.

What's the point of the club spending more in the Premier league if the quality drops?

How do you know it will drop?

Newcastle after the halfway mark were 7 points below us, scored 7 less goals. They signed a single player that completely transformed them. Sometimes it is that simple. Managers take the credit for these transformations and happily look like miracle workers, but the reality is, it is sometimes just luck that the sum of the parts end up greater than the whole.

 

[El Presidente]

Stains far more expensive and highly paid squad simply includes some far better players for their positions (with pace), such as Redmond, Ward-Prowse and Armstrong. They’re comfortably a mid table squad.

Their improved results is in essence an indictment of Mark Hughes’s shit management

We should be beating sides like Southampton though...

 

[Bold Seagull]

We should be beating sides like Southampton though...

View attachment 108547

I love posting this link...

 

[Steve in Japan]

I agree with this post. It's painful to watch the football at times but we need to ensure we evolve in the Premier League. I don't fancy our chances of being a 'yo-yo' club.

I'll see your "painful to watch the football at times" and raise you "it's been ****ing abysmal most of the time".

 

[chaileyjem]

But Southampton did change and improved greatly.

What many of us are arguing, isn't change to avoid relegation, it's change to improve the crap football. So what if we go down? That's inevitable at some point for a club of our size. And if we do, well the entertainment is better in the Championship.

Southampton this season have 3 more points than the Albion and have won the same number of games. Ralph, like Chris , has also seen em lose twice to Cardiff.

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

How do you know it will drop?

Newcastle after the halfway mark were 7 points below us, scored 7 less goals. They signed a single player that completely transformed them. Sometimes it is that simple. Managers take the credit for these transformations and happily look like miracle workers, but the reality is, it is sometimes just luck that the sum of the parts end up greater than the whole.

The drop I'm referring to is the quality of football we are playing now, for entertainment, is less than in the Championship. Despite us now spending probably more than 5 times the playing budget.

It feels like we are dining at the finest restaurant but being served bland food. A new chef is required.

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

Southampton this season have 3 more points than the Albion and have won the same number of games. Ralph, like Chris , has also seen em lose twice to Cardiff.

But the football they are now playing is very different to us. Why are you so ready to defend what we all agree is crappy football?

 

[Bozza]

Southampton this season have 3 more points than the Albion and have won the same number of games. Ralph, like Chris , has also seen em lose twice to Cardiff.

That's not what he said though is it. He said that Southampton had changed and improved.

When they changed manager they were 12 points behind Albion on 9 points from 15 games. We'd just beaten Palace and were in the top half of the table.

Since then, relative to us, they have had a 15 point swing, picking up 29 points in 21 games whilst we've picked up a mere 14 points over the same period of time.

(Note: I'm not advocating "Hughton out" here, just highlighting you've done your usual thing of going off-road in a bit in your response)

 

[El Presidente]

The drop I'm referring to is the quality of football we are playing now, for entertainment, is less than in the Championship. Despite us now spending probably more than 5 times the playing budget.

It feels like we are dining at the finest restaurant but being served bland food. A new chef is required.

In the Championship we had a top six budget, in the Premier League we have a bottom three budget. Players who looked superb in the Championship (AK was player of the season remember) have not done so in the Premier League because they are up against a better peer group.

I might get away with being deemed a good lecturer at Liverpool, but if I went to Harvard or Cambridge it would be different, doesn't mean I am any worse, but the opposition is better.

 

[Seasidesage]

I don’t think things are ‘wrong’ behind the scenes. Two of our best players from last season, Groß & Izquierdo, have been injured for large parts of the present season and we’ve lacked creativity & pace as a result.

Recruitment has been hit and miss, but you don’t get very much for £5-15 million these days in the Premier League as Andone, Bissouma, Montaya, Locadia & Jahanbaksh suggest.

Some other players have shown dips in form and others have not broken through. The only success this season, and it’s a qualified one, is Bernardo.

We don’t know what is happening at training, in drills, in team and board meetings so filling the vacuum by wanting a decent man to lose his job seems an oversimplification. The squad we have, recruited from the likes of Blackburn, Charlton, Lewes, Celtic and Valencia reserves is never going to produce performances and results that many want.

As for the crowd turning on Hughton for not being up to the job if things turn bad last season, they did the same
to Ashley Barnes when he was at the Amex too and were happy to see him leave for £450,000.

As long as we are in this division the football will be mundane a lot of the time. The aim is survival and slow improvement. We cannot get to the ‘next level’ until we’ve established ourselves at the current level first, which realistically will take 4-5 seasons in this division.

The sides relegated in 2018/19 will be Huddersfield (2 seasons since promotion) Fulham (1 season) and one of the Albion (2 seasons) or Cardiff (1 season). We lack experience and quality at this level and it takes time to achieve that, regardless of the manager.

Crowds can and very often are wrong, Barnes is a good example of precisely that. Recruitment has been poorish. But the only thing that has kept us in this division has been our home form and if it continues to deteriorate and the crowd turn we are doomed. As you say we are buying cheap but not so well now. The recruitment has also been arguably in the wrong areas. We clearly needed better options up front and in midfield and I don't think we got either. Hughton is a decent man I am sure, so am I but I wouldn't give me the job. As you say we don't know what is going on behind the scenes, but we do know that results and performances have fallen off a cliff since Christmas. I not sure winning 4 games with reserve sides in the FA cup was the cause either.

Undoubtedly, it was a mistake not to strengthen in January. I can see why they didn't but the results say that was a mistake, but I don't think you can absolve CH of blame either? He selects the sides, the tactics and man management. If and I accept its a if, we take this form into next season there will be only one outcome. IMO the only option other than a change of manager is a major overhaul of the squad. Both are probably needed. I get what you are saying about year two etc. But we are playing a 38 yr old RB, a midfield not mobile or good enough, wide players that range from flakey to anonymous and for me at least at least Izquierdo is a one trick pony although clearly unfit currently. Gross isn't fit but has been turning out RM/CM when he made his impression as a no.10, who made that decision? Does he really have the pace or strength to play there in the PL? We have only one striker capable of scoring who also slows our play down hugely with no real options. Andone at least has some promise but he's hardly been given a chance has he? Again that is the managers call.

The switch to 4-3-3 clearly didn't work but was persisted with until things became fraught, this also has to be laid at Hughton's door. Budget will always dictate I accept that but the squad has not been managed particularly well either and sometimes even good managers reach their sell by date.

 

[El Presidente]

But the football they are now playing is very different to us. Why are you so ready to defend what we all agree is crappy football?

I don't think the players of CH set out to play crappy football, sometimes things change for the worst with exactly the same players, manager, formation etc. , look at Manchester United under Solskjaer.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

The drop I'm referring to is the quality of football we are playing now, for entertainment, is less than in the Championship. Despite us now spending probably more than 5 times the playing budget.

It feels like we are dining at the finest restaurant but being served bland food. A new chef is required.

But the finest restaurant in the world wouldn't employ a duff chef, so maybe they aren't the problem. Maybe they just need some new ingredients? Maybe they've tried to change some recipes with some ingredients that don't really go, so need some alternatives?

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

In the Championship we had a top six budget, in the Premier League we have a bottom three budget. Players who looked superb in the Championship (AK was player of the season remember) have not done so in the Premier League because they are up against a better peer group.

I might get away with being deemed a good lecturer at Liverpool, but if I went to Harvard or Cambridge it would be different, doesn't mean I am any worse, but the opposition is better.

You're absolutely right, I think that what I'm trying to do is come to terms with the fact that I'd rather we were a big fish in the Championship.

The Premier League is not much fun.

But maybe a different manager could make it fun.

 

[El Presidente]

You're absolutely right, I think that what I'm trying to do is come to terms with the fact that I'd rather we were a big fish in the Championship.

The Premier League is not much fun.

But maybe a different manager could make it fun.

I agree totally that the Championship was more exciting, but it is a case of big fish small pond or the reverse.

As for another manager, it could be more fun, it could also be Tony Pulis, Big Sam, Alan Pardew or Mark Hughes.

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

I agree totally that the Championship was more exciting, but it is a case of big fish small pond or the reverse.

As for another manager, it could be more fun, it could also be Tony Pulis, Big Sam, Alan Pardew or Mark Hughes.

Go and wash your mouth out.

 

[BLOCK F]

But the finest restaurant in the world wouldn't employ a duff chef, so maybe they aren't the problem. Maybe they just need some new ingredients? Maybe they've tried to change some recipes with some ingredients that don't really go, so need some alternatives?

Good Lord, all this talk of restaurants, chefs and ingredients is making me very hungry.
Time for a piece of toast, I think.

 

[amexer]

I am another on the fence and a lot of it shows how you, get so much less criticism, when as Hughton is,such a nice person. However doing same every game does get to me. Out of top 6 we will get maybe 4 points out of 18 this season.and score 4 goals. Are we really saying if we showed a little more intent our record would be worse. Also no evidence of any training ground moves during games. Just because we scored a few from corners set plays early in season does this really justify every set play aimed at far post. (know we tried something different on Sat) I may moan at continual long balls from Dunk etc but reality is our midfields are usually too close to our defenders . I will be there whatever division but find it very frustrating watching when in managers words the main objective is staying in game.

We have gone backwards this season which is down to poor recruitment. Spent £60m and not one is a regular.

 

[Silverhatch]

You're absolutely right, I think that what I'm trying to do is come to terms with the fact that I'd rather we were a big fish in the Championship.

The Premier League is not much fun.

But maybe a different manager could make it fun.

Ian Holloway made it fun for Blackpool - they still got relegated.

Hughton has tried to tweak the system to make us more expansive but it's failed with the players we have. Last year, Gross at number 10 worked at home but was lacking away from the Amex. This season Gross has either been injured or played in a more adventurous 4-3-3. Andone has been crocked and GM is another year older (and expected to be an impact sub this season). Confidence since Christmas has been shot after Palace. The resilience that comes from season-one-backs-to-the-wall-doggedness has been replaced by second-season billy-big-bollockness. When the shit hit the fan the confidence has flooded out of them to the point that even the back 4 crumble against Bournemouth and Cardiff. Everyone has skin in this problem - not just Hughton. SURVIVE (luckily or otherwise) and review.

 

[NooBHA]

That's not what he said though is it. He said that Southampton had changed and improved.

When they changed manager they were 12 points behind Albion on 9 points from 15 games. We'd just beaten Palace and were in the top half of the table.

Since then, relative to us, they have had a 15 point swing, picking up 29 points in 21 games whilst we've picked up a mere 14 points over the same period of time.

(Note: I'm not advocating "Hughton out" here, just highlighting you've done your usual thing of going off-road in a bit in your response)

I totally agree that @chailejem did go off topic to support his views; however I don't like to contradict his posts as he and I sort of have the same agenda and support the same point of view.

That said. It was roughly around the same time that Southampton changed manager that we changed too. OK there wasn't a change of manager but there was a change in the way we tried to play. There were people screaming for the new signings to be played. Locadia was running to the Dutch Press at every opportunity claiming he should be in the team - Others like Andone and Jahanbkhsh hadn't played much - Solly was being accused of being too defensive.


What then seems to have ensued - The manager seems to have yielded to that call for change. So people claiming he is Pragmatic and Stubborn are conveniently sweeping these changes under the carpet because they didn't work. it was probably done I will concede because we did have a bit of a cushion in terms of points.


In my opinion and I do concede I will always be bias in favour of Chris - He stuck with other peoples cries for a different style of play too long. because by the time he reverted back to his own ''default'' style of play, the confidence of a lot of players was shot to pieces.


The last 2 games is about getting over the line. Then in the close season you take stock of the players in more detail and come up with a formula to rectify what has gone wrong in the last few months. There are still some very good effective players at the club. There truly is but there are some who are also good players who haven't shown that yet and you need to then decide to stick or twist with them. And finally there are a few players who I think are too old for this level now. Even though they have been a couple of the best performers this season. Their lack of pace and fitness began to show when they were asked to play more expansively.


There is no problem getting the ball to the edge of the opponents box but when goals don't come from those attacks, they are so vulnerable on the counter attack and that has been costly of late.

 

[Bold Seagull]

You're absolutely right, I think that what I'm trying to do is come to terms with the fact that I'd rather we were a big fish in the Championship.

The Premier League is not much fun.

But maybe a different manager could make it fun.

We had 2 poor seasons in the Championship though. The Garcia season wasn't easy on the eye by any stretch, and obviously the season after that was more dire than this one – at least we had a decent first half of this season and a cup run. Even the 2 Poyet seasons should have achieved more than just a solitary appearance in the playoffs.

Then of course we're going back to League One, and not far off dropping into League Two, with again, some poor football. It is only 10 years ago we were chalking up 20 defeats in a season in the 3rd tier.

How often have we been a big fish in the 2nd tier? Can only be a handful of times we've really competed at the top of the division in our existence. Now we're at the top table, people aren't prepared to stomach a poor 4 months?

We all hope it gets better, I thought the first season was great, I enjoyed the the first half of this season, not been as easy 2019, but there you go, no reason a few key purchases in the summer won't make us a more formidable proposition next season.