[Football] Huge game and a huge test for Hughton Saturday

[portlock seagull]

Especially when you fall into someone's cunningly laid trap!

Well it was obvious someone was going to say who to? As if Stephens hasn’t had opportunities this season to play it forward during a promising bit of play. The Amex has groaned with audible frustration during many games to this effect as SgtSideways kills all momentum and the opportunity was lost.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

You fell into my trap. Because that’s simply not true. There have been plenty of times throughout the season where a break was on yet Sgt Sideways failed to see it. Which in fairness is hard to do. When you’re always looking back, never forward.

Like for Knockaert's winner at Palace, you mean?

 

[peterward]

Dunno if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but I noticed this mildly interesting little stat:

Newcastle Utd 2017-18
P35 W11 D8 L16 F35 A44 PTS 41

Newcastle Utd 2018-19
P35 W11 D8 L16 F35 A44 PTS 41

Fairly consistent, aren't they ?

Stat tastic

 

[Simster]

This is it. Cardiff are in the ascendancy and despite losing they score goals. If we’d lost 3-2 to Chelsea etc then I’d have some optimism. But we will play negative don’t concede football without scoring until the wire and I just don’t see that being enoughwhereas I can see Cardiff beating Fulham, Utd etc because they’ll play like their lives depend upon it. I’ve seen nothing to suggest we’re capable of that type of performance. Any last day ‘drama’ where Cardiff score and put us into the relegation spots I can see us collapsing rather than being motivated the other way. We huff and we puff but we ain’t got no TNT.

Cardiff have played "as if their lives depended on it" for months now, and lost 8 of their last 9. They are shit. We are too, but we do have 3 points more than them with 3 to play.

As much as you talk about Cardiff scoring goals, if they are scoring then it follows that they are leaking goals too, and the GD suggests they are a lot worse defensively than we are. It won't do them any good if Fulham beat them 4-3 will it?

 

[portlock seagull]

Like for Knockaert's winner at Palace, you mean?

I’d be careful citing the only goal in living memory as some sort of defence! And GoTM at that?! Stephens inability to pass forwards is legendary. By comparison there have been scores of occasions where we were left thinking what might have been had he. Yes the wingers and forwards would probably mess things up thereafter; but at least they’d have had the chance and maybe, just maybe, a mistake and suddenly Solly is through and...yep, probably blazes over.

 

[Rugrat]

I get the sentiment, but think we are blinding ourselves a little because of how well we appeared to be doing in the first half of the season

If you had mentioned lucky/fortunate/jammy or anything similar late October early November the lynch mob would have been after you. This was all part of the building blocks of the club, making progress, blah blah.

I don't really know why we're in the mess, like everyone here I can only speculate, but it does piss me off that we took our foot off the gas just at the wrong time.

 

[portlock seagull]

Cardiff have played "as if their lives depended on it" for months now, and lost 8 of their last 9. They are shit. We are too, but we do have 3 points more than them with 3 to play.

As much as you talk about Cardiff scoring goals, if they are scoring then it follows that they are leaking goals too, and the GD suggests they are a lot worse defensively than we are. It won't do them any good if Fulham beat them 4-3 will it?

It won’t but they’re just as likely to win 4-3. You could never say that about us. If you score you’ve a chance. That’s what’s scary when you know we can’t. Every game you know is lost the moment we concede.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I’d be careful citing the only goal in living memory as some sort of defence! And GoTM at that?! Stephens inability to pass forwards is legendary. By comparison there have been scores of occasions where we were left thinking what might have been had he. Yes the wingers and forwards would probably mess things up thereafter; but at least they’d have had the chance and maybe, just maybe, a mistake and suddenly Solly is through and...yep, probably blazes over.

It's called 'an example'. Stephens will play forward passes when the opportunity arises, but above all he wants to retain possession.. He just refuses to kick it forward to nobody all the time, like some thickets seem to want

 

[el punal]

It’s not really about spirit anymore is it? But facts. And majority of fans, with good reason, believe Cardiff have enough to keep them up whilst we don’t. Based on facts. Like our inability to score. And the fixtures we still face. Blind faith ain’t gonna help. Nor is delusion. Doesn’t make you a bad fan. Just one with a better grasp on reality. Of course we all hope. But bloody hell, where’s this hope coming from? Certainly not an eyewitness to the past 3 months of games.

Sarcasm gets me everywhere.

 

[portlock seagull]

If you had mentioned lucky/fortunate/jammy or anything similar late October early November the lynch mob would have been after you. This was all part of the building blocks of the club, making progress, blah blah.

I don't really know why we're in the mess, like everyone here I can only speculate, but it does piss me off that we took our foot off the gas just at the wrong time.

This. There was so much to be concerned about back then and yet as you say the lynch mob just wouldn’t hear of it. Some are still banging on about Locadia, Ali J etc needing more time, will come good blah blah. Well times up and they didn’t. And plenty of people called them out then as they did Hughtons abilities, only to be shouted down as negative, disloyal etc. Personally I just thought I’d seen more football and could tell a pup when I saw one but given the number of people still in denial maybe we’re better judges?

 

[portlock seagull]

It's called 'an example'. Stephens will play forward passes when the opportunity arises, but above all he wants to retain possession.. He just refuses to kick it forward to nobody all the time, like some thickets seem to want

And there have been plenty of opportunities where he didn’t - as per my point. Btw, if you’re struggling with the term opportunity as you seem to be doing, I mean where he didn’t have just the choice of hoofing or holding; but playing forwards to someone to run onto etc without losing possession, precluding or even triggering an attack.

 

[Bold Seagull]

This. There was so much to be concerned about back then and yet as you say the lynch mob just wouldn’t hear of it. Some are still banging on about Locadia, Ali J etc needing more time, will come good blah blah. Well times up and they didn’t. And plenty of people called them out then as they did Hughtons abilities, only to be shouted down as negative, disloyal etc. Personally I just thought I’d seen more football and could tell a pup when I saw one but given the number of people still in denial maybe we’re better judges?

In your own mind maybe.

 

[Simster]

It's called 'an example'. Stephens will play forward passes when the opportunity arises, but above all he wants to retain possession.. He just refuses to kick it forward to nobody all the time, like some thickets seem to want

This. It seems remarkable that so many clowns can't see this.

 

[portlock seagull]

Sarcasm gets me everywhere.

I wasn’t being sarcastic. I’m genuinely intrigued by all this hope that we’ll beat Newcastle when to do this I know we have to score a goal and have proven beyond doubt that we can’t do this. Just looking for evidence, real data to substantiate such claims. Otherwise frankly they deserve contempt, sarcasm etc because people are talking out of their arses. There is nothing to suggest we’ll score and get 3 points against Newcastle. A nil nil is what I’m hoping for and a Cardiff defeat obviously.

 

[Brovion]

My comment was in direct response to someone else's - quoting a one match hammering is not a great yardstick by which to prove an assessment of a season. I think it would be harsh to suggest that the 1st half of the season was a deterioration to last season? Up to the 2nd half at Fulham away game we hadn't conceded many goals in a game and at West Ham/Fulham we had scored twice away from home something we struggled to do at all last season. I am not suggesting that the last 7 games without a goal are progression, but the season as a whole doesn't suggest to me that we have gone backwards in the way I think others do. I argue only that the last 7 games (includes "commendable" performances Man City, Spurs and Wolves ) and 2 absolute horror shows whereby the manner of the defeats were unlike anything we had really seen before and need to considered with the pressure that is on us for the first time to nail a result. I am not suggesting that our form had not deteriorated in recent weeks - 2 horror shows at home - just that up to these recent weeks, the season had not been worse than the previous one? I am rose-tinted when it comes to the Albion, but wiping out half a season to make a point about current form is the opposite?

It's all about opinions. I would agree that the second half at Fulham was probably the turning point, and since then IMO (and obviously a lot of others) we've gone backwards at a rate of knots. Indeed IMO the Albion team of a year ago would easily beat the current Albion side, that's how much we've slumped. (As would the team pre-Christmas) The odd backs-to-the-wall performance like at Wolves and Spurs doesn't materially change that.

 

[portlock seagull]

In your own mind maybe.

That’s the response I’d expect from a rose-tint fan who doesn’t like anyone reasonably challenging the club; and when proved correct they then go green tinted too! For many of those types, only now are the chickens coming home to roost but it shouldn’t mean we forget how many of us were calling the shots correctly some time ago, weren’t sucked in by a few 1 nils and a Murray Indian summer, weren’t worried by absence of any Jan window signings, knew that Duffy-Duck couldn’t sustain the levels they’d achieved indefinitely, weren’t concerned at the absence of any development squad progress despite scores of million pound additions in recent years, weren’t concerned by the worst away record in consecutive seasons etc to name just a few alarm bells. But of course, raising these points is just negative and draws accusations of being disloyal and wrong. Well, it gives me enormous pleasure to serve up a big fat told you so if you’re in that boat. We’re in a mess and some of us saw it coming a long time ago. I only hope it isn’t too late but leaving the Amex last Tuesday I can’t see on what basis that hope can be based? The mood and general comment was one of relegation. With good reason - we can’t score so how do win games? Unless our Plan A is hoping Cardiff lose all their remaining. In which case I think we’ll need a Plan B.

 

[Bold Seagull]

It's all about opinions. I would agree that the second half at Fulham was probably the turning point, and since then IMO (and obviously a lot of others) we've gone backwards at a rate of knots. Indeed IMO the Albion team of a year ago would easily beat the current Albion side, that's how much we've slumped. (As would the team pre-Christmas) The odd backs-to-the-wall performance like at Wolves and Spurs doesn't materially change that.

I agree completely. Our resolute back line disintegrated. I think the Cup run was an unwelcome distraction thereafter on reflection. We just needed to knuckle down and get our league form right, but cup games and replays kept coming, the team kept changing and winning the cup games meant there was a general feeling of taking that back into the league. But deep down somewhere we lost that crucial difficult to beat resilience we'd enjoyed for 3 years or so. So difficult to get that back. I feel had we not had the cup run, the alarm bells would have rung a lot earlier. We might have resorted to a Wolves type performance a bit sooner. I don't think most of the team realised the mess they were in, and no matter how many times they were told, they would have said to themselves we'll put it right v Southampton. Okay that was bad, but we'll put it right against Bournemouth. We'll get our form back for Cardiff. It has taken that meltdown for half of them to realise it wasn't just going to happen again, they were going to have to dig deeper than they realised.

I did need statistics, data or evidence to back up hope that sport can throw up unexpected turnarounds, upturns in form out of nowhere. That is what I'm hoping for Saturday, that the penny has dropped in enough of their minds that they fight to a man for every ball and every blade of Amex turf. Might not happen of course, form would suggest it won't, doesn't stop me hoping though.

 

[Bold Seagull]

That’s the response I’d expect from a rose-tint fan who doesn’t like anyone reasonably challenging the club; and when proved correct they then go green tinted too! For many of those types, only now are the chickens coming home to roost but it shouldn’t mean we forget how many of us were calling the shots correctly some time ago, weren’t sucked in by a few 1 nils and a Murray Indian summer, weren’t worried by absence of any Jan window signings, knew that Duffy-Duck couldn’t sustain the levels they’d achieved indefinitely, weren’t concerned at the absence of any development squad progress despite scores of million pound additions in recent years, weren’t concerned by the worst away record in consecutive seasons etc to name just a few alarm bells. But of course, raising these points is just negative and draws accusations of being disloyal and wrong. Well, it gives me enormous pleasure to serve up a big fat told you so if you’re in that boat. We’re in a mess and some of us saw it coming a long time ago. I only hope it isn’t too late but leaving the Amex last Tuesday I can’t see on what basis that hope can be based? The mood and general comment was one of relegation. With good reason - we can’t score so how do win games? Unless our Plan A is hoping Cardiff lose all their remaining. In which case I think we’ll need a Plan B.

Sums you up that you feel enormous pleasure to serve up a big fat I told you so, to who exactly, a whole variety of different posters on an internet forum? What delight you must have in your footballing genius.

I actually started a thread about the mistake January was and our transfer policy. Said early in the season after many were going ga ga over Balogun that I didn't think he was anywhere near good enough, and that cover for D&D was an issue. That massive question marks remained over our fullbacks not contributing enough to our attacks. etc. etc. You think you saw issues before anyone else, I mean frankly that is quite funny, still if it makes you feel better in our current predicament, fill your boots.

 

[Mellotron]

I agree completely. Our resolute back line disintegrated. I think the Cup run was an unwelcome distraction thereafter on reflection. We just needed to knuckle down and get our league form right, but cup games and replays kept coming, the team kept changing and winning the cup games meant there was a general feeling of taking that back into the league. But deep down somewhere we lost that crucial difficult to beat resilience we'd enjoyed for 3 years or so. So difficult to get that back. I feel had we not had the cup run, the alarm bells would have rung a lot earlier. We might have resorted to a Wolves type performance a bit sooner. I don't think most of the team realised the mess they were in, and no matter how many times they were told, they would have said to themselves we'll put it right v Southampton. Okay that was bad, but we'll put it right against Bournemouth. We'll get our form back for Cardiff. It has taken that meltdown for half of them to realise it wasn't just going to happen again, they were going to have to dig deeper than they realised.

I did need statistics, data or evidence to back up hope that sport can throw up unexpected turnarounds, upturns in form out of nowhere. That is what I'm hoping for Saturday, that the penny has dropped in enough of their minds that they fight to a man for every ball and every blade of Amex turf. Might not happen of course, form would suggest it won't, doesn't stop me hoping though.

I think the cup run hid the fact that we really haven't played that well in 2019.

If you look at our last decent run:

Beat Huddersfield
Beat Palace
Beat Millwall on pens

How much decent football did we actually play in those 3 games? I'd argue about 40 minutes' worth. Hudds we were very poor first half and Andone changed the game. Palace was a professional job, scored with our two shots on target, and against Millwall we were dreadful.

Everton at home was arguably our last really decent 90 min performance, although you could almost put Wolves and Spurs in there too, for what they were...

 

[portlock seagull]

I agree completely. Our resolute back line disintegrated. I think the Cup run was an unwelcome distraction thereafter on reflection. We just needed to knuckle down and get our league form right, but cup games and replays kept coming, the team kept changing and winning the cup games meant there was a general feeling of taking that back into the league. But deep down somewhere we lost that crucial difficult to beat resilience we'd enjoyed for 3 years or so. So difficult to get that back. I feel had we not had the cup run, the alarm bells would have rung a lot earlier. We might have resorted to a Wolves type performance a bit sooner. I don't think most of the team realised the mess they were in, and no matter how many times they were told, they would have said to themselves we'll put it right v Southampton. Okay that was bad, but we'll put it right against Bournemouth. We'll get our form back for Cardiff. It has taken that meltdown for half of them to realise it wasn't just going to happen again, they were going to have to dig deeper than they realised.

I did need statistics, data or evidence to back up hope that sport can throw up unexpected turnarounds, upturns in form out of nowhere. That is what I'm hoping for Saturday, that the penny has dropped in enough of their minds that they fight to a man for every ball and every blade of Amex turf. Might not happen of course, form would suggest it won't, doesn't stop me hoping though.

Then you’re guilty of being late on parade. The cup run didn’t start until January. Those three 1 nils in succession last autumn weren’t because we were hard to beat but because we were incredibly fortunate to ride out victorious. They could so easily have gone the other way and ended in defeat let alone a draw. The paucity of goals and then mainly from murray, plus the far from convincing performances from our newer signings back then... these were all strong signals there was much to be concerned about way before Jan/Feb.