HS 2 routes

[essbee1]

Spot on. Total waste of a HUGE amount of money. It's estimated that it would cost about 10% of HS2 to roll out super fast broadband to the whole country and by the time this project is finished the majority of meetings will be done online anyway.

See also Hinkley Point. But apparently the country is skint.

Spot on. My Dad who's 80 odd said this.......and yet politicians can't see. w******s the lot of them

 

[UTT]

It's also going to crash through a large number of people's homes in South Yorkshire and ruin some beautiful, country areas( yes we have some, it's not all dark, satanic mills) in the process.

It's pretty universally objected to around West Yorkshire. Train to London only take just over 2hours from leeds now! Waste of money.

 

[Perfidious Albion]

If they want to spend money on the railway, much needed it is... I would rather they improved the commuter rail that everybody uses .

 

[The Large One]

If they want to spend money on the railway, much needed it is... I would rather they improved the commuter rail that everybody uses .

Quite. It might be a bit parochial, but a I'd argue a BML2 line is more pressing. At least a functioning London-Birmingham / London-Manchester service exists. You'd be hard pushed to say London-Brighton is 'functioning'.

While an upgrade of the railways to something close to the TGV quality of France is required, the prohibitive costs, together with government's lack of investment in infrastructure means that it's really not a priority. Sensible capital projects just aren't coming online at present. For all the talk of a 'Northern Powerhouse' (the offices moved from Sheffield to London recently), it's only CrossRail as a major transport project which is currently being undertaken - something which doesn't affect the north at all.

Plus, leaving Chris Grayling in charge of this project will only ever guarantee catastrophe. Talk about leaving King Herod in charge of Mothercare...

 

[boik]

It was a bit different in France when the TGV was built. Towns were campaigning to have it come to them. One reason why France has better infrastructure I guess.

Whilst HS2 might not be an answer to anything, we are rather obsessed with the problems in the South down here, and yet surely the answer is to make it such that not everyone has to move to the South to get a job. I'm assuming that is part of the reason the BBC moved opp north. Money might be better spent encouraging other big employers to move north.

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

Have noticed that as usual nothing included for a route south of London or any improvements in links to South Coast or along the South Coast. Also total silence on A27 improvements east of Lewes,
I think money could be better spent on various regional projects rather than high speed line which only the rich can afford to use.
One nation ! I think not and I am normally a Tory voter

I honestly don't think too much can/will be impproved on lines between London and the south coast in the near future. Let's face it, (apart from the seemingly never ending Southern dispute), there are plenty of trains, from a myriad of London stations, some fast, some slow, to a whole host of destinations along the south coast, with a fast train from Victoria to Brighton taking only about 50 minutes.

Ok things, as ever, don't always run smoothly, or as planned, but in the great scheme of things, I don't think we fare too badly down here

 

[The Large One]

It was a bit different in France when the TGV was built. Towns were campaigning to have it come to them. One reason why France has better infrastructure I guess.

I appreciate the point. One, France is twice the size of the UK. Two, it's a more rural country, meaning places need linking up, transport-wise. Also, France had to re-build much of its infrastructure post-war. Britain, in comparative terms, didn't - hence an antiquated system. Railways were also put at the back of the queue when it came to upgrading Britain's infrastructure. While France (and others) upgraded roads AND railways, Britain only upgraded the roads.

And then came Dr Beeching...

Whilst HS2 might not be an answer to anything, we are rather obsessed with the problems in the South down here, and yet surely the answer is to make it such that not everyone has to move to the South to get a job. I'm assuming that is part of the reason the BBC moved opp north. Money might be better spent encouraging other big employers to move north.

That will only happen if / when commerce moves en bloc. Moving north for the sake of it (or even if it's cheaper) will still take them away from the main commercial hub of the UK.

 

[The Large One]

I honestly don't think too much can/will be impproved on lines between London and the south coast in the near future. Let's face it, (apart from the seemingly never ending Southern dispute), there are plenty of trains, from a myriad of London stations, some fast, some slow, to a whole host of destinations along the south coast, with a fast train from Victoria to Brighton taking only about 50 minutes.

Ok things, as ever, don't always run smoothly, or as planned, but in the great scheme of things, I don't think we fare too badly down here

The main issue, I'd suggest, is overcrowding - of services and passengers.

The London-Brighton services already operate beyond capacity - and the numbers aren't about to fall any time soon. The trains were a mess (the timetable has long been a farce) way before the industrial disputes happened. One way of improving the system is not to have a formula whereby the number of trains (and the number of carriages forming that train) being determined by the costs the operator is saving, but being determined more by the requirements of the service.

 

[Uter]

Quite. It might be a bit parochial, but a I'd argue a BML2 line is more pressing. At least a functioning London-Birmingham / London-Manchester service exists. You'd be hard pushed to say London-Brighton is 'functioning'.

While an upgrade of the railways to something close to the TGV quality of France is required, the prohibitive costs, together with government's lack of investment in infrastructure means that it's really not a priority. Sensible capital projects just aren't coming online at present. For all the talk of a 'Northern Powerhouse' (the offices moved from Sheffield to London recently), it's only CrossRail as a major transport project which is currently being undertaken - something which doesn't affect the north at all.

Plus, leaving Chris Grayling in charge of this project will only ever guarantee catastrophe. Talk about leaving King Herod in charge of Mothercare...

The average tenure of a Secretary of State for Transport is what, 2 or 3 years? The project is likely to see half a dozen ministers occupy that hot seat during its construction.

I'm sure there are people all over the country who'd like to see it cancelled so that money can be diverted to their own pet rail projects, but in reality that would be extremely unlikely to happen in the event of cancellation. Personally I am in favour of HS2, especially when you consider the alternatives.

WRT the Brighton main line, Network Rail have been developing a plan to upgrade it, with the central component adding 2 platforms to East Croydon and extensive grade separation to the junction immediately to the north. Ultimately they think it could result in up to 8 new paths to London an hour. I appreciate this will not be of much help when things go awry on the two track section south of Three Bridges, but it will at least alleviate the capacity constraints for the next generation. That said, I'd be more confident of these plans coming to fruition with Patrick McLoughlin as SoS.

 

[Spiros]

HS2 - a vanity project by a government that is out of touch with the people.
Also a jobs for the boys project - and contracts to mates.

Which government? HS 2 was originally kicked off by Labour in 2009. The coalition (Tory + Lib Dem remember) and now tory government have both just continued it. Seems all sides of the house take equal credit/blame for this one.

 

[essbee1]

The average tenure of a Secretary of State for Transport is what, 2 or 3 years? The project is likely to see half a dozen ministers occupy that hot seat during its construction.

I'm sure there are people all over the country who'd like to see it cancelled so that money can be diverted to their own pet rail projects, but in reality that would be extremely unlikely to happen in the event of cancellation. Personally I am in favour of HS2, especially when you consider the alternatives.

WRT the Brighton main line, Network Rail have been developing a plan to upgrade it, with the central component adding 2 platforms to East Croydon and extensive grade separation to the junction immediately to the north. Ultimately they think it could result in up to 8 new paths to London an hour. I appreciate this will not be of much help when things go awry on the two track section south of Three Bridges, but it will at least alleviate the capacity constraints for the next generation. That said, I'd be more confident of these plans coming to fruition with Patrick McLoughlin as SoS.

So - what do you say to the argument that by the time this project is completed, technology will be so advanced
that we won't need to travel at all for meetings, etc etc? HS2 will increasingly become a white elephant.

 

[essbee1]

Which government? HS 2 was originally kicked off by Labour in 2009. The coalition (Tory + Lib Dem remember) and now tory government have both just continued it. Seems all sides of the house take equal credit/blame for this one.

All politicians.........out of touch, apart from when it comes to lining their own f******* pockets.

 

[mikeyjh]

Lodon to Birmingham is about 120 miles and currently takes around 80 minutes. That's twice as quick as Brighton or Eastbourne (which are rammed during rush hour).
If huge investment is needed it's not hard to see where.

While I think the idea that the South East is somehow 'hard done by', the lack of improvement on the Brighton line is staggering, it's been going on for years. Even little old Derby whose people are FAR less reliant on the railway than those of Brighton is getting a £200m upgrade on track, signals etc over the next 18 months. I genuinely don't get it.

Spot on. Total waste of a HUGE amount of money. It's estimated that it would cost about 10% of HS2 to roll out super fast broadband to the whole country and by the time this project is finished the majority of meetings will be done online anyway.

See also Hinkley Point. But apparently the country is skint.

I'm a massive supporter of public transport, we should be spending way way more on our railways BUT I entirely agree, investment in superfast broadband AND trains that have space for people and arrive largely on time would be much more appropriate.

 

[Uter]

So - what do you say to the argument that by the time this project is completed, technology will be so advanced
that we won't need to travel at all for meetings, etc etc? HS2 will increasingly become a white elephant.

It's an argument I've heard a lot and it is quite seductive. However there is little evidence to back this up in reality, in fact it's possible that technology actually increases the amount we travel. Possibly this is because technology allows businesses to forge links with customers over a greater geographical spread and people still value face to face meetings, but not much research has been done in this area AFAIK. In the last years of BR the network had approx. 800 million passengers per year and since then there has been growth every year apart from a minor blip in 2007 due to the largest recession for a generation. Now it stands at 1800 million passengers a year. Every year the network has to cope with around 20-40 million new journeys. This demand is not showing any obvious signs of abating.

It is possible that passenger growth that could flat line and there is ultimately no great need for it, but it's just as likely demand will continue to grow and not building it could be seen as a folly in years to come. So building it is a gamble where you are betting on continuing passenger growth, but not building it is also a gamble where you are betting on no passenger growth. Of course past performance is no guarantee of future performance but a continuing high growth scenario seems more likely.

 

[GOM]

Quite amazing, not really seen this before. Normally it's about NIMBYs, now everyone that lives in the SE it seems, is an IWIIMBY (I want it in my back yard) as far as spending money goes anyway. Let's not waste it in the rest of the country, who gives a Flying F about them.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Quite amazing, not really seen this before. Normally it's about NIMBYs, now everyone that lives in the SE it seems, is an IWIIMBY (I want it in my back yard) as far as spending money goes anyway. Let's not waste it in the rest of the country, who gives a Flying F about them.

As long as it's not their house getting knocked down though, of course.

 

[beorhthelm]

Lodon to Birmingham is about 120 miles and currently takes around 80 minutes. That's twice as quick as Brighton or Eastbourne (which are rammed during rush hour).

my observation is that its only rammed between East Croydon and London. as i understand there is a rolling programme of signal and track improvements, hence why we have so many engineering works closures. the additional platforms at ECroydon and associated improvements northwards are slated for next year, so things should get better (until the capacity is filled, which is the main root of the problems).

 

[happypig]

my observation is that its only rammed between East Croydon and London. as i understand there is a rolling programme of signal and track improvements, hence why we have so many engineering works closures. the additional platforms at ECroydon and associated improvements northwards are slated for next year, so things should get better (until the capacity is filled, which is the main root of the problems).

I would disagree (although my commuting is thankfully rare these days). I have regularly stood all the way to Lewes.

 

[The Birdman]

We need crossrail HS1 HS2 and HS3 also we need the A27 updated from Dover to Southampton take the M23 down to the A27 also high speed Broadband for the whole of the U.K. And we might be able to cope with being out of the EC
Electrify the Hastings line.second runway at Gatwick.this will help with jobs and start up business.
Just get on with it oh and bring the Bluebell to Haywards Heath.
20,000 extra seats at the Anex.
I also would have built a new hospital in a better postion for transport and parking and used the two old sites in Brighton for 10,000 flats I have just bankrupt the uk

 

[AmexRuislip]

We need crossrail HS1 HS2 and HS3 also we need the A27 updated from Dover to Southampton take the M23 down to the A27 also high speed Broadband for the whole of the U.K. And we might be able to cope with being out of the EC
Electrify the Hastings line.second runway at Gatwick.this will help with jobs and start up business.
Just get on with it oh and bring the Bluebell to Haywards Heath.
20,000 extra seats at the Anex.
I also would have built a new hospital in a better postion for transport and parking and used the two old sites in Brighton for 10,000 flats I have just bankrupt the uk

Just a small request then