[Misc] HR Nightmare

[NorthstandRacoon]

As much as I would love to rant about how I think Chelsea could nick Europe from us, I have an issue I want some thoughts/advise on.

One of my employees in my team is playing up. About 3-4 weeks ago, they took sick leave for the umpteenth time, at a moment when we really needed them. My superior agreed it was the final straw and we were going to give them a warning. (their sick record is bad) This warning never happened. Turns out, there was a bit more to it, but I'm just waiting for when it happens again.

Following on, they've recently gone above my head when I ask them to do something and because every time I have asked them to do something over the last 2-3 weeks, that will help them in the long run, they literally react like a child. To the point I had to stop trying to explain the benefits to them because I could feel myself getting f***ing annoyed.

Then, we had a meeting this morning and both agreed a compromise. All was well, so I thought. Fast forward to this afternoon, and I now have HR involved and we are now due a meeting with said employee because they've said that this way of working, and working under me, has put them off even coming into work.

Now, I am very fair and understanding, but they seem like the type that doesn't like authority or being told/asked what to do/how to do things, or taking advice.

I can't remember a time when I suggested/asked them to do a task which meant changing their work slightly (for the better mind), when they actually just went, 'OK, it's not what I'm used to, but I'll give it ago' then give thoughts on how it went and if we needed to change it to how so it works for the team and them. Instead, they go and cry wolf.

I can honestly say, I really do not think I have done anything wrong in my management style, I am the first to admit when I am wrong, (as per my posts on here at times, for example). If there is a problem, I ask to speak to them in a meeting room, so I can solve it with them. And even then, they will say everything fine, and still go to HR/my boss.

Please can anyone suggest how to deal with this?! My 2nd time managing and first full time management of someone.

Thanks NSC!

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Make them somebody else's problem.

I have a similar issue with somebody at the moment, albeit not the bit about them complaining to HR, but very much all the bits about them having unreasonable working practices that other people have regularly complained about and a terrible sickness record.

They're not strictly speaking my responsibility but for various boring reasons effectively are. I try and be nice and supportive about things but at some point the higher ups in the division/project will have them kicked off the team.

 

[Beanstalk]

As much as I would love to rant about how I think Chelsea could nick Europe from us, I have an issue I want some thoughts/advise on.

One of my employees in my team is playing up. About 3-4 weeks ago, they took sick leave for the umpteenth time, at a moment when we really needed them. My superior agreed it was the final straw and we were going to give them a warning. (their sick record is bad) This warning never happened. Turns out, there was a bit more to it, but I'm just waiting for when it happens again.

Following on, they've recently gone above my head when I ask them to do something and because every time I have asked them to do something over the last 2-3 weeks, that will help them in the long run, they literally react like a child. To the point I had to stop trying to explain the benefits to them because I could feel myself getting f***ing annoyed.

Then, we had a meeting this morning and both agreed a compromise. All was well, so I thought. Fast forward to this afternoon, and I now have HR involved and we are now due a meeting with said employee because they've said that this way of working, and working under me, has put them off even coming into work.

Now, I am very fair and understanding, but they seem like the type that doesn't like authority or being told/asked what to do/how to do things, or taking advice.

I can't remember a time when I suggested/asked them to do a task which meant changing their work slightly (for the better mind), when they actually just went, 'OK, it's not what I'm used to, but I'll give it ago' then give thoughts on how it went and if we needed to change it to how so it works for the team and them. Instead, they go and cry wolf.

I can honestly say, I really do not think I have done anything wrong in my management style, I am the first to admit when I am wrong, (as per my posts on here at times, for example). If there is a problem, I ask to speak to them in a meeting room, so I can solve it with them. And even then, they will say everything fine, and still go to HR/my boss.

Please can anyone suggest how to deal with this?! My 2nd time managing and first full time management of someone.

Thanks NSC!

Don't be afraid to ask for help in managing the situation, and play it by the book. I'd talk to HR about the situation in a calm and collected manner for advice on how to deal with it professionally and in line with company policy. The worst thing you can do is try to deal with the problem in your own manner, make the situation worse and find out that you've gone against the policy of your company and have put yourself in a compromised situation.

I'd also advise (and I hate this corpo-phrase) to "assume positive intent" as much as possible with the employee. People aren't difficult for the sake of being difficult and if you're going to get through this without anyone completely burning their bridges then it is going to require a lot of compromise and careful management to get the employee back on the same page, where you're working positively together.

It sounds difficult regardless, so make sure that you're not letting it take up all of your mental capacity. If things are difficult, take a step back from the situation and remember to look after yourself.

 

[hart's shirt]

One of my employees in my team is playing up. About 3-4 weeks ago, they took sick leave for the umpteenth time, at a moment when we really needed them. My superior agreed it was the final straw and we were going to give them a warning. (their sick record is bad) This warning never happened. Turns out, there was a bit more to it, but I'm just waiting for when it happens again.

Without knowing UK employment law intricacies despite having employed many in the UAE, this part is probably the most pressing.

When it comes to employee disciplinary issues including that of sick leave abuse, the first rule is 'document everything'.

Even if the sick record of the individual is "bad" and sick leave has been taken for the "umpteenth time", specific details are needed.

Was the warning to be verbal or written? Even if it's verbal, it should still have been documented.

The fact that the warning wasn't given effectively means that the issue never arose, or was insignificant enough to allow backtracking.

Sadly there's some been some workplace dereliction of duty here and it's not on the part of the employee concerned.

To avoid the possibility of future unfair dismissal as it might happen again, the company has to follow through on warnings.

The traditional Verbal / Written / Final / Dismissal '3 strikes and you're out' is tried and tested. No grey areas. Clarity is key. It'll send out the right signal to the rest of the team too.

Obviously anything major (e.g. theft, violence, stealing company secrets, etc.) would probably be instant dismissal, but sick leave abuse isn't of that magnitude.

I wish you well here.

 

[HeaviestTed]

Listen Tony, it is just Roberto’s way he did miss the spurs match because of his tooth operation, it wasn’t a sickie.

He’ll sign a contract extension if you lighten up and stop selling his best players!

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

Make them somebody else's problem.

I have a similar issue with somebody at the moment, albeit not the bit about them complaining to HR, but very much all the bits about them having unreasonable working practices that other people have regularly complained about and a terrible sickness record.

They're not strictly speaking my responsibility but for various boring reasons effectively are. I try and be nice and supportive about things but at some point the higher ups in the division/project will have them kicked off the team.

Hmmm I don't want to give up that easily, we have a new hire starting Monday who is the same position as said person, it'll be very interesting to see if this changes things, also.

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

Don't be afraid to ask for help in managing the situation, and play it by the book. I'd talk to HR about the situation in a calm and collected manner for advice on how to deal with it professionally and in line with company policy. The worst thing you can do is try to deal with the problem in your own manner, make the situation worse and find out that you've gone against the policy of your company and have put yourself in a compromised situation.

I'd also advise (and I hate this corpo-phrase) to "assume positive intent" as much as possible with the employee. People aren't difficult for the sake of being difficult and if you're going to get through this without anyone completely burning their bridges then it is going to require a lot of compromise and careful management to get the employee back on the same page, where you're working positively together.

It sounds difficult regardless, so make sure that you're not letting it take up all of your mental capacity. If things are difficult, take a step back from the situation and remember to look after yourself.

Thanks for this. Agree with that advice.

HR spoke to me today and we have agreed a joint meeting with said employee to try and see what the problem is, and resolve it, but it was more a case to see what people thought outside of work as I can see it happening again.

I am not the first person, this employee has had issues with. They obviously don't like authority. When I joined, I saw them regularly in the rooms ranting/complaining to Directors/CEO etc.

 

[clapham_gull]

The problem with the HR industry is that is has long moved away from their previous incarnation as "personnel" into an industry populated with 20 somethings with limited life and work experience. A degree in sociology from a minor university helps, as does a fixation with social engineering.

Love the power, hate the responsibility.

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

Without knowing UK employment law intricacies despite having employed many in the UAE, this part is probably the most pressing.

When it comes to employee disciplinary issues including that of sick leave abuse, the first rule is 'document everything'.

Even if the sick record of the individual is "bad" and sick leave has been taken for the "umpteenth time", specific details are needed.

Was the warning to be verbal or written? Even if it's verbal, it should still have been documented.

The fact that the warning wasn't given effectively means that the issue never arose, or was insignificant enough to allow backtracking.

Sadly there's some been some workplace dereliction of duty here and it's not on the part of the employee concerned.

To avoid the possibility of future unfair dismissal as it might happen again, the company has to follow through on warnings.

The traditional Verbal / Written / Final / Dismissal '3 strikes and you're out' is tried and tested. No grey areas. Clarity is key. It'll send out the right signal to the rest of the team too.

Obviously anything major (e.g. theft, violence, stealing company secrets, etc.) would probably be instant dismissal, but sick leave abuse isn't of that magnitude.

I wish you well here.

Yeah, from what I understand, they have been documented. They have already run out of sick leave for this year, and it's only April. Last year, v similar.

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

The problem with the HR industry is that is has long moved away from their previous incarnation as "personnel" into an industry populated with 20 somethings with limited life and work experience. A degree in sociology from a minor university helps, as does a fixation with social engineering.

Love the power, hate the responsibility.

Exactly how I feel, although, my HR is a finance manager who decided to get trained/become HR.

 

[hart's shirt]

Yeah, from what I understand, they have been documented. They have already run out of sick leave for this year, and it's only April. Last year, v similar.

With that track record, one shouldn't be at all surprised at the outcome of events. Any guesses on what's likely to happen next year?

There must be internal disciplinary procedures that could/should have been triggered last year. Were they acted upon?

If not, it's a situation that's likely to continue unless action is taken, even it's a case of just a written warning for now.

 

[Weststander]

The problem with the HR industry is that is has long moved away from their previous incarnation as "personnel" into an industry populated with 20 somethings with limited life and work experience. A degree in sociology from a minor university helps, as does a fixation with social engineering.

Love the power, hate the responsibility.

My experience was that HR evolved from folk with some empathy and kind of following their science, to quasi lawyers furtively doing the harsh bidding of senior management. The hidden agenda to get bums on seats and squeeze out anyone with life issues, without falling into any of the wrongful or unfair dismissal traps.

I say hidden with certainty because I was a first hand witness to the scheming.

To the OP, my limited advice is to stay calm, profession and gently spoken in all dealings. Even if you feel different inside. Plus to maintain objective and contemporaneous notes at home, should this be unjustly turned on its head and you are perceived as the ‘issue’.

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

With that track record, one shouldn't be at all surprised at the outcome of events. Any guesses on what's likely to happen next year?

There must be internal disciplinary procedures that could/should have been triggered last year. Were they acted upon?

If not, it's a situation that's likely to continue unless action is taken, even it's a case of just a written warning for now.

I think, they are too scared because of fears of reprisal. OR there are issues that I am not aware of yet. There are family connections with a couple of people with opinions in the business also. Crazy.

 

[Easy 10]

Who you gonna call ?

 

[StonehamPark]

Im interested (nosey) to learn what age bracket this employee falls into.

 

[Zeberdi]

I'd also advise (and I hate this corpo-phrase) to "assume positive intent" as much as possible with the employee. People aren't difficult for the sake of being difficult and if you're going to get through this without anyone completely burning their bridges then it is going to require a lot of compromise and careful management to get the employee back on the same page, where you're working positively together.

This is the key imo - a lot can be achieved by positive affirmation of what people are doing well before complaining about what they are doing wrong. It makes them much more likely to listen and take on board advice if it is felt that it is well intentioned.

It sounds like the OP has decided he wants this employee out, especially given the doubling down on the employee‘s negative attributes (threatening people, scaring them because of family connections?!) so probably not much else to say or advise that will help resolve this in an amicable manner tbh.

 

[clapham_gull]

My experience was that HR evolved from folk with some empathy and kind of following their science, to quasi lawyers furtively doing the harsh bidding of senior management. The hidden agenda to get bums on seats and squeeze out anyone with life issues, without falling into any of the wrongful of unfair dismissal traps.

I forgot to mention "agents of useless senior management".

Forgive me if I appear all "up the workers" on you, but I believe the industry particularly in the public sector to be in crisis.

It's existence has led to useless senior management backed by useless HR support. The relationship somewhat reminding me of the crap footballer agent relationship.

The combination effectively leads to bad recruitment.

Unfortunately the HR industry has become fixated with pseudo science and social engineering, more concerned whether someone is "fire" or "water" rather the collective goal of your business to make money and ensuring we all take home a chunk.

Bad behaviour takes months and years to get called out. The "quasi lawyer" comment rings true, a collective in fear of a legal challenge they were never educated to judge in the first place. Better placed to teaching a subject in a college they were any good at like a bad art teacher.

They've absolved themselves of the human factor and I avoid them like the plague.

 

[Cotton Socks]

Deleted because I'd been to the pub and posts don't count if you've done that!

 

[Cotton Socks]

Deleted for the reason given above.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Three simple letters - PIP. Will allow you to manage them out of the business.

And if HR don't support you in doing that then they are crap.