[Football] How to fix offside / VAR issue.

[Triggaaar]

I think the offside ones are the worst myself. This is where the 'instant celebration' aspect is most impactful

Yeah that's true, I was thinking more about how often they're wrong, but yes, impacting our enjoyment I agree.

 

[BNthree]

My conspiracy theory is that Refs are deliberately/subconsciously making VAR seem bad, in an attempt to delay AI from taking their jobs.

Surely it will do the opposite as at the moment all the errors are human ones.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Offside is easy to fix.

Do it ALL by feet - shoulders, head, arms don't matter. Just feet.

Put a little microchip in the front, side, and back of each boot, and get some radio waves flying about - done.
(By feet, tech wouldn't really be needed, as level can be always either onside or either offside - i don't care which - just want consistency.

So what if "Level" is creating inconsistency? "Spotto Bollocko Level." Do SB level as offside for the first half of season, and then as onside for second half, or, is onside for the team with most corners, or, the most possession in opposing half.

The not interfering with play gig; 15m away from ball action and didn't pull defenders out of position, or off pitch = exempt.

The current mess really needs to be changed.

Never work. What happens if the tech fails on one players boot? Player changes his boots during the game does it need calibrating prior to him continuing?

The easiest way is using the system used in the WC and have set parameters for where the cameras are located. The one used for the disallowed goal is no where near the penalty box which confirms the EPL VAR protocol isn't being adhered to. https://www.premierleague.com/news/1488423

There should have been a camera nearly in line with the incident as defined in the article I posted, it wasn't.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Surely it will do the opposite as at the moment all the errors are human ones.

Yeah it will.
You can't stop progress. It didn't stop the Luddites from smashing up machines though did it.

 

[Acker79]

I don't believe there is anything that can realistically be done that would stop people feeling aggreived. If we get rid of VAR there will be the regular on-field mistakes that half the footballl fandom would whine about because 'VAR would have sorted that one - those were the things it should have dealt with, let's bring it back for things like that'.

Even if they don't call for VAR to return, there will still be complaints about pretty much every refereeing decision because we culturally refuse to accept their authority, because without ever even reading the rules of the game or intrstructions to referees believe we know the rules and the game better than them and refuse to acknowledge our own biases when looking at incidents involving the team we've followed and invested so much of ourselves into for 30 years, or situations involving our rivals, etc. And we're not even one of the clubs that thrive on an 'us v the rest of the world' mentality.

There was a comment somewhere (not sure if here, twitter, or on MotD itself) that suggested binning off VAR so MotD can get back to talking about football skills and tactics, and I just laughed because I can't remember the last time MotD wasn't discussing some refereeing "controversy" even before VAR.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

This was entirely predictable.

VAR is shite, always was going to be like this.

It's a system that was designed to rule out goals.

How many controversial goals were there before VAR was brought in?

It wasn't perfect before, but this is just rubbish

 

[Seagull58]

Green line should be much thicker……

as thick as Lee Mason or only as thick as John Brooks?

 

[el punal]

I hate VAR with a vengeance. The decisions that have been made both in our favour or against just suck the soul out of the game. The absolute ultimate in mindless jobsworth incompetence was the decision to allow a penalty for Man Utd against us a couple of seasons ago AFTER the ref had blown the final whistle and the players were leaving the field.

The match officials do their job to the best of their ability, and yes mistakes have been made, but at least the decisions are instant. With VAR you have to wait interminably while some drone looks for a reason to justify his existence and then f**** up by his own incompetence - therefore what is the point?

 

[Ding Dong !]

Back to how things where but keeping goal line technology. Win some, lose some.

 

[Stat Brother]

Back to how things where but keeping goal line technology. Win some, lose some.

How things were is how we got here now.

Need a root and branch overhaul on how football is talked about and reported on.
As that's never going to happen, binning off VAR will change nothing, possibly be even worse now...


"If we still had VAR..."

 

[chickens]

I’ve posted this elsewhere, but introduce technology as and when it’s match ready. The goal line technology works, keep it.

When fully automated offside technology has demonstrably lower error rates than human decision makers, and decisions are just a beep in the ref’s earpiece, introduce that.

Don’t introduce this horrible expensive hybrid where there’s still the potential for accusations of bias, and ill-feeling. The ref just needs help to make the right decision, not more refs.

 

[ChickenBaltiPie]

The solution is already available. The Premier league will probably now fast track the same semi automatic VAR system FIFA used at the World Cup.

This is great! Please let this be incorporated ASAP, BUT, I still think that a marginal degree of allowance to the benefit of the attacking player should be incorporated by default to avoid as much as possible disappointment. If the human eye, and ultimately no one in the stadium at the time, ref, linesman, players, supporters think it’s offside, then it should stand and we would hopefully see a lot less goals chalked off, whether correctly or incorrectly.

 

[Acker79]

How things were is how we got here now.

Need a root and branch overhaul on how football is talked about and reported on.
As that's never going to happen, binning off VAR will change nothing, possibly be even worse now...


"If we still had VAR..."

I don't know if it's still the case, but a few years back when I was still watching NFL, the authorities had an iron grip on the game, and managers were not allowed to comment on the performance of the officials (of course some would occasionally, and then be hit with fines).

I wonder how things would be if we implemented something like that here. Even take it further and make it a condition of TV rights deals that the commentators/analysts were not allowed to pass judgement on refereeing decisions - only note what the decision was, not whether they agree/think it's right or wrong/what decision they would have made.

I think a lot of football discussion is driven by the commentators and pundits on the TV games. It shapes how people view the decisions in the games they watch live, it shapes the discussion of the week. If conditioned to not think it's perfectly normal for people without any refereeing training or full understanding of the current laws and how the authorities want them implemented to pass judgement on refereeing decisions, if instead we're conditioned to 'play to the referee's whistle/decison' perhaps that woud help.

 

[Giraffe]

If you're going to simplify it to just feet, then one chip per boot is enough. But you still need someone to say which attaching player's chips to use, and judging by Estupinan's disallowed goal, they'd be capable of getting that wrong.



VAR is a mess, but I don't think the offside decisions are that big of an issue (this weekend aside). Seeing goals ruled out for a player being an inch offside is annoying, but not the worst part of VAR.

I disagree. It has put the advantage with the defenders again, whereas it used to be benefit of doubt with the attackers. We need to go back to that. I'd say there needs to be clear space for it to be offside.

 

[Triggaaar]

Never work. What happens if the tech fails on one players boot? Player changes his boots during the game does it need calibrating prior to him continuing?

Good point. It could be on a player's chest and that's it (I think they often wear stuff of their man bras). But that has issues too: It would disadvantage attackers who start their run leaning forward, while a defender is facing away from goal. To fix that, you could give the attackers a leeway of, say, 6", but you still have the issue of players interfering with play by blocking defenders etc, but it could help speed up the process - for example, if no attacker's chip is past the last 2 defenders (inc goalkeeper) it automatically signals that it's not offside, and you can all celebrate. If it doesn't, as a fan you know it's going to take a minute or 2 to check (they delay could be due to an attacker who wasn't interfering with play).

 

[macbeth]

automation is the only solution unfortunately. all this 'just measure it from x or y,' does nothing because there's still going to be a millimetres distance between onside and offside.

It doesn't matter how much we prune and sculpt the VAR guidelines, if the people operating it can't even draw the lines in the right place then we're going to have issues

 

[Triggaaar]

I don't believe there is anything that can realistically be done that would stop people feeling aggreived. If we get rid of VAR there will be the regular on-field mistakes that half the footballl fandom would whine about because 'VAR would have sorted that one - those were the things it should have dealt with, let's bring it back for things like that'.

Even if they don't call for VAR to return, there will still be complaints about pretty much every refereeing decision because we culturally refuse to accept their authority, because without ever even reading the rules of the game or intrstructions to referees believe we know the rules and the game better than them and refuse to acknowledge our own biases when looking at incidents involving the team we've followed and invested so much of ourselves into for 30 years, or situations involving our rivals, etc

Whilst I know there's some truth in your point that some people don't like authority and can't see their own bias etc, I don't think that's the big issue, which IMO is the howlers we used to get. The goal we scored against Germany in the WC, for example. I also wouldn't have been impressed if we hadn't got the penalty for the assault on Mason Mount against France.

 

[BN41Albion]

automation is the only solution unfortunately. all this 'just measure it from x or y,' does nothing because there's still going to be a millimetres distance between onside and offside.

It doesn't matter how much we prune and sculpt the VAR guidelines, if the people operating it can't even draw the lines in the right place then we're going to have issues

If they remember to draw them in the first place that is

 

[RowZ]

Another way to help VAR....

in office - one main man makes the VAR decision (has to be within 30 seconds). Two others are there, and they click agree or not - if both disagree, the main man is veto'd.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

Green line should be much thicker……

But not as thick as the people running it.