How to avoid paying stamp duty??

[Uncle Spielberg]

I do wonder what ILOVEBHA's company's contingency is for this...if there even is one.

I am not commenting on his firm but usually what happens is when the shit hits the fan the company folds / goes bankrupt and the directors are untraceable.

 

[Triggaaar]

I thought about this scheme but something about it , I feel uneasy with. I had a recent client buy at £ 1.65 m and they/we did not use this scheme. I know of a client who used it

How did the scheme that you looked at work?

I didn't look into any scheme

You say that you thought about using this scheme, but that there was something it you felt uneasy with, but you know of a client that used it. Then you say you haven't looked into any scheme. What are you talking about? Is there definitely only one scheme, and how can you feel uneasy about it if you haven't looked into it?

 

[chimneys]

As I said I am not comfortable about it and I can guarantee if it all goes belly up, no offense but you will not be seen or traceable for dust. If the clients want to look into it themselves they are free to, I did refer one client to a firm that does this and it was a shambles and the client walked away from it. There have been several schemes recently that have promised the world and turned to shit so I am very careful about what I recommend. I guess I could have earned a few grand from the latest client but I like to sleep at night. Anyway good luck.

On a similar note (but with a very different attitude!) US, how are you getting on with that "get your mortgage/loan repayments written off" scheme you were trumpeting on here a short while back?

 

[Triggaaar]

I am not commenting on his firm but usually what happens is when the shit hits the fan the company folds / goes bankrupt and the directors are untraceable.

I don't disagree with your scepticism about companies running 'schemes'. If most of their work is on such a scheme, then they will clearly not be able to pay all of the saved stamp duty if a court decides it is owed by all clients, so yes, such a company would disappear and the clients would be left with the problem. But I wouldn't dismiss the idea of such a scheme without learning the facts.

 

[Driver8]

HM Revenue Customs: Spotlight 10: Stamp Duty Land Tax avoidance (7 June 2010)

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

You say that you thought about using this scheme, but that there was something it you felt uneasy with, but you know of a client that used it. Then you say you haven't looked into any scheme. What are you talking about? Is there definitely only one scheme, and how can you feel uneasy about it if you haven't looked into it?

I have had several firms contact me with regard to this. I gave the details to one client who did their mortgage through me but they got uneasy about all the stuff they were asked to do, and the upfront fees etc so decided not to go ahead. One other client did it themselves and I will check today how they got on as its been about 9 months now since completion. I just have a gut feeling and for that reason I'M OUT.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

On a similar note (but with a very different attitude!) US, how are you getting on with that "get your mortgage/loan repayments written off" scheme you were trumpeting on here a short while back?

As it happens I did bring it to the attention of people. I however decided not to get involved and no one through NSC did anything with me on this. As business conditions have been off the wall bad for 4 years I have looked into every opportunity to make money from things outside the box and diversify and I think anyone else would do the same.

 

[ILOVEBHA]

How can you be sure any company will still be here tomorrow all we can go on is our good name, years of trading and we have very happy clients.
I am sure there are bad operators around but as under 10% of our business is through using these schemes, why would even risk this if we were not confident in the products.
It is not all about commission as we can earn more money through doing more compliance work but it is about giving our clients every option available and then they can make an informed decision. Am i mistaken but is this not what you want from trusted tax advisers?

 

[ILOVEBHA]

HM Revenue Customs: Spotlight 10: Stamp Duty Land Tax avoidance (7 June 2010)

We do not use a scheme that manipulates the price and there is no upfront fee to pay at all.

I think we are being associated with all the dodgy schemes people hear about in pubs, let me reiterate this scheme has a 100% money back guarantee and is backed by over 450 chartered accountants who have each performed their own due diligence on the product, The top two Tax QC`s in London and some exceptional scheme providers.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

How can you be sure any company will still be here tomorrow all we can go on is our good name, years of trading and we have very happy clients.
I am sure there are bad operators around but as under 10% of our business is through using these schemes, why would even risk this if we were not confident in the products.
It is not all about commission as we can earn more money through doing more compliance work but it is about giving our clients every option available and then they can make an informed decision. Am i mistaken but is this not what you want from trusted tax advisers?

I am not taking any high moral ground. Today you have to look at every possible thing to make money. Its just something I have decided not to pursue. Good luck anyway. I am not questioning you or your companies integrity. If the client makes an informed decision with all the facts, thats their choice.

 

[Uncle C]

I think we are being associated with all the dodgy schemes people hear about in pubs, let me reiterate this scheme has a 100% money back guarantee

Given the sums involved, can I ask who is making this guarantee.

Are appropriate sums of money held in an independant account, is it insurance backed, are the FSA involved etc etc?

 

[ILOVEBHA]

Given the sums involved, can I ask who is making this guarantee.

Are appropriate sums of money held in an independant account, is it insurance backed, are the FSA involved etc etc?

Yes it is insurance backed by one of the top insurers in the world who believe me have also done their due dilligence on the product.

 

[Sir Nigel of Eagleshire]

I met someone earlier who said that its possible to avoid paying stamp duty on any property in excess of £250k. This is apparently due to some 'loop hole' that I would have thought that the HMRC will investigate and close.

Does anyone on here have any experience of this and how it works?

Transfer the property into an offshore company name and sell the company shares rather than the property is the only legal way i know.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Transfer the property into an offshore company name and sell the company shares rather than the property is the only legal way i know.

Well, I've recently been chatting about a provider of these schemes (not for myself, purely by chance), and it seems that it is a legal 'avoidance'. The process works by you depositing your Stamp Duty (SDLT) fee with your solicitor as normal. You accept that this fee will be kept for a 9 months that the HMRC have to challenge an application not to pay SDLT. The challenge made by the legal persons on your behalf. As I understand it, this challenge is made up of say 4 or more reasons for not paying SDLT that exploit the complexities of the wording in the legislation. Once this application has been made, HMRC have 9 months to decide whether to challenge this application. Given these reasons are researched and proven to question the robustness of the legislation, invariably the HMRC don't or cannot make the challenge required.

The contract I was privvy to involved the customer agreeing to pay 50% fees (+VAT) of the SDLT that was due at the time of completing the 9 months time frame when no further challenge can be made by the HMRC. For example, an SDLT due of £10,000, you would walk away with approx. £4k if all was successful. If not, then your SDLT would be due as normal and paid from the money you originally deposited with your solicitor. So rather than SDLT costing you £10k, the process has cost you £6k. If unsuccessful it's cost you nothing and you pay your SDLT.

I'd certainly want to look into it a lot more myself if I decided to do it, but bare in mind the purchase of the Chelsea Barracks site, and Labour's own HQ both used the same scheme.

As far as I understand there is nothing illegal in this. You get an official acknowledgment from the HMRC that they have received the application not to pay SDLT, and the 9 month period to act is in the legislation.

If anyone was interested in hearing me more (as the above is about the extent of my knowledge), PM me as I'd rather not post details of the person I spoke with.

 

[HovaGirl]

over the table say the house is worth X, but pay the seller Y under the table - so you both lie about the official value or the sell, and draw up a secret squirrel contract.......give the agent a little cut too.

Until the mortgage valuer comes along . . .

 

[HovaGirl]

most tax goes from the government straight to the banks for interest on the loans they take (e.g) the bank of england (which is a private bank).

much other tax goes towards arms, soldiers, expenses, etc.

i do not use the state schooling or NHS systems so don't feel your comment is relevant.

do not forget one still does pay tax on my method, but allot less. if you feel stamp duty is worthy then pay away, its up to the individual.

Actually, it's up to the law.

 

[HovaGirl]

roads come from road tax,and utilities are all private profit making companies these days. again, if you feel stamp duty is worthy you pay it, but don't have a go at me if i feel it more of a legalised mafia theft.

also i have paid lots of tax in my life, it is just that stamp duty, inheritence tax, and a few others don't resonate with me - so i wriggle clear of them.

And thus raise the amount of tax to be paid by other people, just because of your selfishness.

 

[HovaGirl]

agreed, but many facets of youth education steer away from this - in all epochs (stiener, alternative education, tibet etc). i am saying that modern education turns out materialistic people stuck in egoistic desire, and nothing about inner happiness and inner peace.

That attitude isn't as a result of education, but as a result of the mass media. Most teenagers are self-obsessed and materialistic as they go through that transitional stage towards adulthood, obessed by the fame and riches they would gain if they only appeared on X-Factor or Big Brother. The problem for society today, is that the teenage phase no longer ends at 19, but is clung to by much older people who refuse to grow up.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'd certainly want to look into it a lot more myself if I decided to do it, but bare in mind the purchase of the Chelsea Barracks site, and Labour's own HQ both used the same scheme.

I would go back and have a chat with this provider again because it was not how Chelsea Barracks and the Labour Party HQ were sold at all.

And if you think that HMRC cannot come knocking on your door after 9 months you are being very very naive.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/property/article-1295924/Buy-20m--pay-stamp-duty-How-Candy-brothers-advised-foreign-buyers-avoid-millions-tax-luxury-flats.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labours-tax-dodge-on-sale-of-hq-saved-163210000-stamp-duty-427849.html

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The contract I was privvy to involved the customer agreeing to pay 50% fees (+VAT) of the SDLT that was due at the time of completing the 9 months time frame when no further challenge can be made by the HMRC. For example, an SDLT due of £10,000, you would walk away with approx. £4k if all was successful. If not, then your SDLT would be due as normal and paid from the money you originally deposited with your solicitor. So rather than SDLT costing you £10k, the process has cost you £6k. If unsuccessful it's cost you nothing and you pay your SDLT.

I'd certainly want to look into it a lot more myself if I decided to do it, but bare in mind the purchase of the Chelsea Barracks site, and Labour's own HQ both used the same scheme.

As far as I understand there is nothing illegal in this. You get an official acknowledgment from the HMRC that they have received the application not to pay SDLT, and the 9 month period to act is in the legislation.

The more I read about these schemes I think they are scams set up to fleece the public. In the example above at 9 months you pay the provider 4k. A number of further months down the line HMRC rock up on your doorstep asking for their 10k and by this time the provider is long gone with yours and others money having fulfilled his (no doubt legally safe) obligation at 9 months.