How to avoid paying stamp duty??

[HantsSeagull]

done it, and no trace exists....all happy parties

if of course you get caught - which now seems quite likely!!


sure they have bigger fish to fry in reality

 

[brunswick]

if of course you get caught - which now seems quite likely!!

why would i get caught? there is no trace, and this is a football forum wherein i use the web on a vpn ip.

 

[brunswick]

but something tells me that you might miss the roads and utilities, and that you've not quite thought this through.

roads come from road tax,and utilities are all private profit making companies these days. again, if you feel stamp duty is worthy you pay it, but don't have a go at me if i feel it more of a legalised mafia theft.

also i have paid lots of tax in my life, it is just that stamp duty, inheritence tax, and a few others don't resonate with me - so i wriggle clear of them.

 

[Vegas Seagull]

We offer it on any properties over 250K and the fee is half the stamp duty due plus vat.
Obviously the more expensive the property the bigger the saving.

& bigger the fee! £13k fee & £13k saved...tell me you weren't doing it 7 years ago!?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

i think the idea is you can pay say 249k for the house and say 5k or 10k for the "fixtures and fittings" like sockets, lights, maybe inbuilt cupbords and stairs. they are quite tighter on what those fixtures and fittings can be valued at these days.

There is a very clear and unambiguous question on the stamp duty forms which asks you to declare all "linked" transactions whether current or at any time in the past either involving you, a partner or contact. Consequently any activity like you suggest will have to be mentioned. You can of course choose not to mention any side purchases, but if you get caught you're in Harry Redknapp territory. Falsifying tax documents can get you in a lot of bother.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

We are so confident that the SDLT scheme works that we even offer a 100% money back guarantee if it does not work so at worse you will be in exactly the same position you would have been if you had not used the scheme.

For your clients sake, if your advise involves breaking up the purchase I really hope your lawyers have poured over this scheme. See my response above.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

i use the web on a vpn ip.

you really do live in cloud cuckoo land !

 

[ILOVEBHA]

& bigger the fee! £13k fee & £13k saved...tell me you weren't doing it 7 years ago!?

We have only been using the scheme for the last 2 years however stamp duty mitigation has been going on for decades

 

[ILOVEBHA]

For your clients sake, if your advise involves breaking up the purchase I really hope your lawyers have poured over this scheme. See my response above.

No the scheme is not some hashed up scheme, it has been devised by the best tax QC`s in London and since this particular scheme started they have had 1 enquiry which was dealt with immediately by the QC.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

No the scheme is not some hashed up scheme, it has been devised by the best tax QC`s in London and since this particular scheme started they have had 1 enquiry which was dealt with immediately by the QC.

Fair enough. But I fail to see how it's done. Stamp duty looks bullet proof to my solicitor and to a much much lesser extent my untrained eyes. And on the subject of QCs, didn't Guy Hands say the very same thing when he got involved in that film industry tax fiddle?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

No the scheme is not some hashed up scheme, it has been devised by the best tax QC`s in London and since this particular scheme started they have had 1 enquiry which was dealt with immediately by the QC.

So what you're saying, is that it hasn't been properly challenged yet?

 

[ILOVEBHA]

So what you're saying, is that it hasn't been properly challenged yet?

You can look at it like that or look at the many thousands including the Labour party who have benefitted by using the scheme.
As i am sure you know HMRC’s standard enquiry window is 9 months and 30 days from date of registration of the property. During
this period, HMRC may open an enquiry into any property transaction for any reason whatsoever.
Outside of this period, HMRC has up to 4 years to open a ‘discovery assessment’ providing they are able to
prove certain criteria. In our experience, HMRC very rarely make use of discovery assessments and in fact
recently reduced the window during which these assessments can be made.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You can look at it like that or look at the many thousands including the Labour party who have benefitted by using the scheme.

What did the labour party do then? I presume theres was commercial property? This is area I know little about in stamp duty terms.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You can look at it like that or look at the many thousands including the Labour party who have benefitted by using the scheme.
As i am sure you know HMRC’s standard enquiry window is 9 months and 30 days from date of registration of the property. During
this period, HMRC may open an enquiry into any property transaction for any reason whatsoever.
Outside of this period, HMRC has up to 4 years to open a ‘discovery assessment’ providing they are able to
prove certain criteria. In our experience, HMRC very rarely make use of discovery assessments and in fact
recently reduced the window during which these assessments can be made.

Its interesting you base your argument on HMRC investigation windows of opportunity and probability, and not on the actual legislation.

 

[ILOVEBHA]

Its interesting you base your argument on HMRC investigation windows of opportunity and probability, and not on the actual legislation.

All i can say is that if this did not work then why are they all going through with no problem and we have many happy clients. Dont forget the scheme is also running on a 100% money back guarantee.
These schemes are not for everyone but those that want to save tax can.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

All i can say is that if this did not work then why are they all going through with no problem and we have many happy clients. Dont forget the scheme is also running on a 100% money back guarantee.
These schemes are not for everyone but those that want to save tax can.

First your presented your case with HMRC timelines and the likelihood of investigation. Now your asking "why are they all going through?" You're not convincing me. Sorry. It looks to me as though your lawyers have, at best, interpreted the legislation in a certain manner and this manner has yet to be properly tested. I'm sure your customers are currently happy. Maybe this will change if the HMRC come knocking?


I have no idea what you're doing and I'm sure you'll only tell me if I pay for your services. But, from where I stand I'd question it and be highly suspicious from my understanding of stamp duty.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

All i can say is that if this did not work then why are they all going through with no problem and we have many happy clients. Dont forget the scheme is also running on a 100% money back guarantee.
These schemes are not for everyone but those that want to save tax can.

Does that money back guarantee come with a guarantee of paying any HMRC fines if they later decide your client has evaded tax ?

 

[Triggaaar]

over the table say the house is worth X, but pay the seller Y under the table - so you both lie about the official value or the sell, and draw up a secret squirrel contract.......give the agent a little cut too.

No, that's not how it's done.

We offer this as part of our accountancy service to clients and all have gone through nice and easy.
As said this is legal tax avoidance and so much so that the Labour party bought their London headquarters using a stamp duty tax mitigation scheme.

Can you discuss the mthods you use, or PM me?

i do not use the state schooling or NHS systems so don't feel your comment is relevant.

Yes you do. You use the state schools to educate children and keep them off the streets, preventing them from smashing your stupid head to a pulp with a brick (do you honestly think your life would be the same if children didn't go to school ). And you use the NHS to keep everyone well so that they can keep the system running so you can continue to live in cloud cuckoo land.

First your presented your case with HMRC timelines and the likelihood of investigation. Now your asking "why are they all going through?" You're not convincing me. Sorry. It looks to me as though your lawyers have, at best, interpreted the legislation in a certain manner and this manner has yet to be properly tested. I'm sure your customers are currently happy. Maybe this will change if the HMRC come knocking?

You're basing your opinion on the fact that you've asked your standard solicitor what can be done. It's not the job of a standard solicitor learn about these things. Companies pour through the legislation looking for loopholes, and they find them, and you're being told about one. The reason it remains 'untested' in because HMRC have not gone to the high court to challenge the tax avoidance, and there's a good chance they haven't bothered because they've been told (by their lawyers) they'll lose. These schemes aren't just made up with hope, they are studied and built with the best understanding of the legislation.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You're basing your opinion on the fact that you've asked your standard solicitor what can be done. It's not the job of a standard solicitor learn about these things. Companies pour through the legislation looking for loopholes, and they find them, and you're being told about one. The reason it remains 'untested' in because HMRC have not gone to the high court to challenge the tax avoidance, and there's a good chance they haven't bothered because they've been told (by their lawyers) they'll lose. These schemes aren't just made up with hope, they are studied and built with the best understanding of the legislation.

I appreciate what you're saying. I would not say hope, but interpretation. And how specialist do you need to be? Regular residential stamp duty for a UK national is not that complex. If he is alluding to those with different status then I'm sure there are ways. I'm open to having my opinion changed though. But, ILOVEBHA has gone down the route of 'HMRC only look at x% of cases' etc etc. This really isnt the basis of arguement. He may well not want to tell me or you what he is doing, but equally he cannot use the perceived inability of the HMRC.

Oh, and it is the job of the people I pay to look after my affairs to look at such things. I tthink my solicitor would be very upset if you called her standard. In fact you'd probably end up in court.

The bottom line is I do not know, and neither do you or ILOVEBHA. So until I am aware of anything else I'll keep my current scepticism.

 

[Triggaaar]

And how specialist do you need to be? Regular residential stamp duty for a UK national is not that complex.

Of course it isn't. Many people determine their own tax using self cert, but that doesn't mean they know as much as Alan Sugar's tax advisor. It may be simple for a solicitor to fill in the stamp duty forms, but it takes a little more to find loopholes and make savings for your client.

But, ILOVEBHA has gone down the route of 'HMRC only look at x% of cases' etc etc. This really isnt the basis of arguement.

I agree, but I don't think iLove is using that as the basis, he's just adding it and saying they've never been done. His company is not a one off, lots of people avoid tax this way.

Oh, and it is the job of the people I pay to look after my affairs to look at such things. I tthink my solicitor would be very upset if you called her standard. In fact you'd probably end up in court.

lol, I doubt it. And if you are paying your solicitor to look at such things, and they're not, then perhaps they are actually sub-standard. How much are you spending on stamp duty a year? You're buying a lot of property right? If so, I suggest you contact iLove for more info (or find an equivelant company). If not, then why would you be paying your solicitor thousands of pounds to look for a stamp duty saving when you don't pay much?

The bottom line is I do not know, and neither do you or ILOVEBHA. So until I am aware of anything else I'll keep my current scepticism.

You're wrong there. Nothing wrong with being sceptical, but don't assume that iLove doesn't know about this, it's his business, so I assume he does know.