How thick are students...

[clapham_gull]

To be fair to Aaron Porter he said that straight away, most students I'm sure agree with him. Personally I just think it was high jacked by the usual 'Rentamob' faction who have no interest in the actual cause in the first place. Sadly they won and everybody else lost.

How do you stop these anarchists ? Well if you give the Police and Intelligence forces a free and you have the Civil Liberties followers amongst others screaming about a facist state. See the debate we had on here about CCTV a few weeks ago.

The Intelligence Services already have a "free" if they view people as a subversive threat.

Not sure about CCTV - but the demo was filmed in HD by the media.

If people can be indentified and the evidence is there they will be prosecuted.

Who exactly are the rentamob ? I think it will turn out to be a few students who went way too far.

 

[The Spanish]

To be fair to Aaron Porter he said that straight away, most students I'm sure agree with him. Personally I just think it was high jacked by the usual 'Rentamob' faction who have no interest in the actual cause in the first place. Sadly they won and everybody else lost.

How do you stop these anarchists ? Well if you give the Police and Intelligence forces a free and you have the Civil Liberties followers amongst others screaming about a facist state. See the debate we had on here about CCTV a few weeks ago.

some girl union president from UCL or somewhere who was on bbc breakfast with him this morning made him appear positively statesman-like by comparison. she was hysterical, it really is worth a watch just to see her get totally owned by f***ing bill turnbull and sian williams of all people. she would have got a kicking on richard and judy too.

she was all angry pompous and smart alec-y studenty in the most brilliant way, you couldnt have made her up. i was so intrigued i had to go all internet stalky and look her up.

i am in no hurry to subsidise education for wankers like this.

http://solomonsmindfield.blogspot.com/

 

[bhaexpress]

The Intelligence Services already have a "free" if they view people as a subversive threat.

Not sure about CCTV - but the demo was filmed in HD by the media.

If people can be indentified and the evidence is there they will be prosecuted.

Who exactly are the rentamob ? I think it will turn out to be a few students who went way too far.

The problem is (if you consider it to be one) is that a lot of people fear having their privacy and therefore their basic human rights infringed on. There's an argument for both views.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

some girl union president from UCL or somewhere who was on bbc breakfast with him this morning made him appear positively statesman-like by comparison. she was hysterical, it really is worth a watch just to see her get totally owned by f***ing bill turnbull and sian williams of all people. she would have got a kicking on richard and judy too.

she was all angry pompous and smart alec-y studenty in the most brilliant way, you couldnt have made her up. i was so intrigued i had to go all internet stalky and look her up.

i am in no hurry to subsidise education for wankers like this.

http://solomonsmindfield.blogspot.com/

Yes, she was terrible.

'Let's have all fees scrapped, ...it should be free to all' was basically what she was saying.

So someone leaving school at 16 on the Mimimum Wage has to PAY for her further education.

 

[clapham_gull]

The problem is (if you consider it to be one) is that a lot of people fear having their privacy and therefore their basic human rights infringed on. There's an argument for both views.

Struggling to understand what that has to do with yesterday.

 

[eastlondonseagull]

Good on them, and all those on the march today. About time we stood up and got counted, before the tories put higher education out of the reach of a whole new generation.

Absolutely. Billy Bragg made a great point in the Mirror this morning, talking about the Lib Dem's betrayal of the democratic system. Complete U-turn on education policy, sticking up two fingers to all those who voted for them.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Firstly, polite, peaceful demonstrations achieve nothing, I admire people who are prepared to fight for what they think is right. There are those people and there are those who'll accept that they're going to get fcuked up the a**e that make me mad.

Secondly, if you think that is the worst you're going to see over the next see over the next few months and years, you're going to be very suprised.

*cough* - Falmer

There may be more demos but make no mistake, the police will be out in force with every one from now on. Instead of seeing 7 police officers in hospital you'll be seeing students in there ..... and they will only have brought it on themselves.

 

[bhaexpress]

Struggling to understand what that has to do with yesterday.

If you follow the thread through it relates to my (and others I'm sure) belief that the majority of the trouble makers were not even students but anarchists and how to actually tackle the problems they create. If the wanted to damage two causes then they succeeded didn't they ?

That Student Union girl reminded me of the way Nick Griffin was handled by the way.

 

[clapham_gull]

If you follow the thread through it relates to my (and others I'm sure) belief that the majority of the trouble makers were not even students but anarchists and how to actually tackle the problems they create. If the wanted to damage two causes then they succeeded didn't they ?

That Student Union girl reminded me of the way Nick Griffin was handled by the way.

It's rather too simplistic to think that the trouble was the work of "anarchists", even if they were I'd imagine most were students. It's doesn't appear to be the view of the people who were there either.

If I was a student (well I technically still am....) I'd be very pissed off with the lib dems. Never voted for them and never will. They appear to have cashed their policies and election promises for a chance to get PR.

They must have picked hundreds of thousands of votes off students because of this very issue.

I've always been a supporter of some change in the voting system, but if this is the price we have to pay - I'll stick with current one.

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

You didn't mind about the violence ?

i wouldn't condone that.

but there are examples of public disobedience impacting on government policy.

 

[Superphil]

Interesting point of view made this moring on the news by someone from the Guardian. It is/should be the richer people who should be demonstrating, as it is them who will have the greatest burden when they start working, as they will be earning the most money, thereofre required to pay off their loads sooner. Those leaving university for low paid jobs won't have to pay it, and if they stay in low paid jobs, as Stewert Lee eluded that many will, then they'll never have to pay off the loans.

 

[clapham_gull]

i wouldn't condone that.

but there are examples of public disobedience impacting on government policy.

I honestly think this is somewhat different. It's an argument that needs to be won with the tax-payer as well as the Government.

I also believe that the NUS have been campaigning for a Graduate Tax and yet many people on that march are asking for free education. They really need a coherent argument else they won't get anywhere.

Funny "union" the NUS.

Do you still need to "opt" out being a member - although it's free. Is the president sill voted in by a small committee and students. I see a number of Universities Unions have actually split from the National one.

 

[SI 4 BHA]

Originally Posted by Biscuit
Good on them, and all those on the march today. About time we stood up and got counted, before the tories put higher education out of the reach of a whole new generation.

Absolutely. Billy Bragg made a great point in the Mirror this morning, talking about the Lib Dem's betrayal of the democratic system. Complete U-turn on education policy, sticking up two fingers to all those who voted for them.

I expect somewhere in the 14 pages someone has tried to explain this, but how exactly does charging for higher education put it out of reach of a whole new generation? It's a loan, nothing upfront and if you don't ever want to get a decent job, you never have to pay it back!

If you want, you can still go to uni, piss about for 3 years, get a 2.2 or a third in some non vocational subject, get a job as a bin man or something similar and in all probability, you won't pay a penny off the loan. How does that put anyone off from going?

The problem with uni is that everyone expects to go now, as if it's some rite of passage to adulthood, it makes no difference to your employment prospects unless you get a 1st as there are so many average graduates out there chasing a hanful of decent jobs, and as has always been the case, only the best will get the best jobs. And yes, I do know a bit about what I am talking about as my daughter is in her 2nd year at university at the moment.

 

[CHAPPERS]

I expect somewhere in the 14 pages someone has tried to explain this, but how exactly does charging for higher education put it out of reach of a whole new generation? It's a loan, nothing upfront and if you don't ever want to get a decent job, you never have to pay it back!

.

Revealed: 30-year graduate debt trap | This is Money

 

[strings]

Funny "union" the NUS.

Do you still need to "opt" out being a member - although it's free. Is the president sill voted in by a small committee and students. I see a number of Universities Unions have actually split from the National one.

On opting out - it depends on the policy of each Uni and their respective SU. When I was an SU officer it all hinged on data sharing - some Unis will share data with their Students' Unions unless a student opts out. Other Uni's will not share data, so the individual students will need to physically have to go and sign up to being a member of their local union and therefore NUS.

On the voting in of the President. It is a ballot that happens at NUS national conference. All delegates at the conference have to be elected by the membership of their local SU in order to go, each SU have a given number of places at conference dependent on the size of their respective institution (although I have known of 'fudged' votes where there were less candidates to go to conference than there were spaces, thus ensuring that all the spaces are filled).

There are a few Unions that have disaffiliated - Southampton being one. Most of these institutions are north of the border and have formed their own 'mini-NUS' called CHESS (the Committee of Higher Education Students in Scotland).

 

[clapham_gull]

Those leaving university for low paid jobs won't have to pay it, and if they stay in low paid jobs, as Stewert Lee eluded that many will, then they'll never have to pay off the loans.

He does that in his latest act (which is very funny) - but he was actually demonstrating how sh*t the situation is.

Interesting interview with him on the subject...


[yt]JDEZ2h41t0I[/yt]

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Good on them, and all those on the march today. About time we stood up and got counted, before the tories put higher education out of the reach of a whole new generation.

If they want to vent their anger at a Political Party let's look at the facts:

Labour introduced Tuition Fees (and commissioned the Browne Report) Not quite sure whare the Labour Party stand on this one at the moment - then again I don't think they know either.

Lib Dems said they would vote against any rises / removal of caps on fees.

Tories look like they are going to accept the Browne Report, and increase fees from 2012.

 

[bhaexpress]

It's fairly predictable that a Tory (I don't count the Lib Dem contribution) would pick softer targets but what must be remembered is that the drastic mess this country is in needs drastic measures.

 

[Stoo82]

The Lib dems never thought they would get any sort of power so could afford to say they support all sorts of rubbish. Now, in the real world, they cant.

 

[sten_super]

Revealed: 30-year graduate debt trap | This is Money

The second half of that article is a complete mis-representation, because it's already the case that anyone earning over £15k (not £21k, as proposed in the new measures) is facing a tax rate including the 9% payoff of student loan. They also rather bizarrely lump the 4% pension contributions in as 'lost' income, when it is anything but.