How much money could we make from FFP?

[Dominoid]

Bearing in mind it's looking like we may actually make it into the right level of loss for FFP this season and a number of other teams may not, does anybody know the scale of the fines and how much money we could stand to gain a one of the few clubs that meets the targets? It seems to me like we could be in for some pretty big windfalls in a couple of seasons time should things carry on as they are.

 

[Creaky]

Bearing in mind it's looking like we may actually make it into the right level of loss for FFP this season and a number of other teams may not, does anybody know the scale of the fines and how much money we could stand to gain a one of the few clubs that meets the targets? It seems to me like we could be in for some pretty big windfalls in a couple of seasons time should things carry on as they are.

Financial penalties only apply to the three promoted clubs. There are no penalties for those relegated, other than not receiving a share of any financial penalties imposed on the promoted clubs, and for those remaining in the Championship the penalties only relate to player transfers.

 

[Napper]

Financially not much , any that breach wont be fussed by the fines.

Biggest advantage could be transfer embargo etc.

Dont think will make much difference as Prem relegated teams exempt to start with i think and you are always going to have a few gambling to make it regardless of consequence

 

[brightonrock]

Financial penalties only apply to the three promoted clubs. There are no penalties for those relegated, other than not receiving a share of any financial penalties imposed on the promoted clubs, and for those remaining in the Championship the penalties only relate to player transfers.

I'm not sure that's true, that's the points deductions/transfer embargoes. Other championship clubs who overspend get fined and the monies shared out amongst all the clubs in the division who play by the rules.

 

[narly101]

I'm not sure that's true, that's the points deductions/transfer embargoes. Other championship clubs who overspend get fined and the monies shared out amongst all the clubs in the division who play by the rules.

Is the correct answer. The transfer embargo is in addition to the fine.

 

[KZNSeagull]

i. Sanctions for clubs remaining in the Championship
Clubs that fail to comply with the Financial Fair Play regulations (from December 1st 2014) will be subject to a transfer embargo. This embargo will come in to force ahead of the subsequent transfer window beginning on January 1, 2015.
The embargo will remain in place until the club is able to lodge financial information that demonstrates that it meets the Financial Fair Play regulations (either for the previous reporting period or a future reporting period).
ii. Sanctions for clubs promoted to the Premier League
Clubs promoted to the Premier League will be required to provide Financial Fair Play information for their promotion season by December 1. Any club found to have breached Financial Fair Play regulations will be required to pay a 'Fair Play Tax' on the excess by which the club failed to fulfil the Fair Play requirement, ranging from 1% on the first £100,000 to 100% on anything over £10m.
The Fair Play Tax will be applied at the following thresholds:
(a) 1% of the excess between £1 and £100,000;
(b) 20% of the excess between £100,001 and £500,000;
(c) 40% of the excess between £500,001 and £1,000,000;
(d) 60% of the excess between £1,000,001 and £5,000,000;
(e) 80% of the excess between £5,000,001 and £10,000,000; and
(f) 100% of the excess over £10,000,000
Any proceeds will be distributed equally amongst clubs that have complied with the Financial Fair Play regulations for the season in question.
The Football League is currently in the process of consulting with the Premier League regarding the implementation of these Financial Fair Play regulations.
iii. Sanctions for clubs relegated to League 1
Clubs relegated to League 1 will not be entitled to any payout derived from the Fair Play Tax and will be required to comply with the FFP rules in operation in that division.
Transition arrangements for clubs relegated from the Premier League
Clubs relegated from the Premier League will not be subject to sanctions in their first season in the Championship as long as they have met their financial obligations under Premier League regulations. They would, however, be subject to the potential of a Fair Play Tax if they achieved promotion in their first season in the Championship whilst not complying with the FFP regulations.

 

[Biscuit]

SO how many clubs are looking unlikely to meet their FFP and what will the fines be for them?

 

[narly101]

i. Sanctions for clubs remaining in the Championship
Clubs that fail to comply with the Financial Fair Play regulations (from December 1st 2014) will be subject to a transfer embargo. This embargo will come in to force ahead of the subsequent transfer window beginning on January 1, 2015.
The embargo will remain in place until the club is able to lodge financial information that demonstrates that it meets the Financial Fair Play regulations (either for the previous reporting period or a future reporting period).
ii. Sanctions for clubs promoted to the Premier League
Clubs promoted to the Premier League will be required to provide Financial Fair Play information for their promotion season by December 1. Any club found to have breached Financial Fair Play regulations will be required to pay a 'Fair Play Tax' on the excess by which the club failed to fulfil the Fair Play requirement, ranging from 1% on the first £100,000 to 100% on anything over £10m.
The Fair Play Tax will be applied at the following thresholds:
(a) 1% of the excess between £1 and £100,000;
(b) 20% of the excess between £100,001 and £500,000;
(c) 40% of the excess between £500,001 and £1,000,000;
(d) 60% of the excess between £1,000,001 and £5,000,000;
(e) 80% of the excess between £5,000,001 and £10,000,000; and
(f) 100% of the excess over £10,000,000
Any proceeds will be distributed equally amongst clubs that have complied with the Financial Fair Play regulations for the season in question.
The Football League is currently in the process of consulting with the Premier League regarding the implementation of these Financial Fair Play regulations.
iii. Sanctions for clubs relegated to League 1
Clubs relegated to League 1 will not be entitled to any payout derived from the Fair Play Tax and will be required to comply with the FFP rules in operation in that division.
Transition arrangements for clubs relegated from the Premier League
Clubs relegated from the Premier League will not be subject to sanctions in their first season in the Championship as long as they have met their financial obligations under Premier League regulations. They would, however, be subject to the potential of a Fair Play Tax if they achieved promotion in their first season in the Championship whilst not complying with the FFP regulations.

Is the actual correct answer. The fine applies if the club is promoted. The transfer embargo applies if they remain in the championship.

 

[Baldseagull]

SO how many clubs are looking unlikely to meet their FFP and what will the fines be for them?

Loads and Loads.

Honestly though, I don't think any fines are payable next season, it will be calculated after the seasons end and fines will be levied and distributed late in the following season I think.
Also, if your planned profit and loss is within the rules but the actual profit and loss is outside it you could still be ok. I think next season we have to be no more than £5M operating loss, but we could go up to £8M without penalty, as long as we didn't "plan" to lose more than £5M.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Loads and Loads.

Honestly though, I don't think any fines are payable next season, it will be calculated after the seasons end and fines will be levied and distributed late in the following season I think.
Also, if your planned profit and loss is within the rules but the actual profit and loss is outside it you could still be ok. I think next season we have to be no more than £5M operating loss, but we could go up to £8M without penalty, as long as we didn't "plan" to lose more than £5M.

There are no sanctions next year. They start in Season 2014/15.

Total permitted losses next year are 8m, then 6m in 2014/15, then 5m thereafter.

This is based on actual losses - not planned. If it were based on planned losses, Man City would say "we planned to only spend 10m on players this year, but ended up spending 200m, so please let us off"! Certain things are excluded, like investment in grounds, academies etc

The Football League's FFP rules are here - http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/FLExplainedDetail/0,,10794~2748246,00.html. They are actually very simple.

 

[El Presidente]

The Football League's FFP rules are actually very simple.

True, but the accounting will be very creative!

 

[Baldseagull]

There are no sanctions next year. They start in Season 2014/15.

Total permitted losses next year are 8m, then 6m in 2014/15, then 5m thereafter.

This is based on actual losses - not planned. If it were based on planned losses, Man City would say "we planned to only spend 10m on players this year, but ended up spending 200m, so please let us off"! Certain things are excluded, like investment in grounds, academies etc

The Football League's FFP rules are here - http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/FLExplainedDetail/0,,10794~2748246,00.html. They are actually very simple.

When I say planned losses I mean that the rules allow you to have in your financial plan for the coming season a loss of £5M not up to £8M as you say. You could lose up to £8M if say attendances were lower than could reasonably be predicted etc. but you would be breaking the rules to have a loss of £8M in your financial plan.

Though the sanctions for failure to comply start from Dec 1st 2014, I believe the accounting period they will look at in December 2014 will be for the 2013/14 season.
Seems they might not be so simple after all.

 

[Baldseagull]

Reading again, I think I've got that a bit wrong but it still isn't as simple as an £8M loss is permitted. £3M is permitted and any further loss up to £5m above that has to be paid for as equity by Bloom. I don't know what would happen to a £3M loss carried forward to the next season, it could help keep within the rules the following year potentially.