How many will follow Coventry and QPR’s lead?

[BadFish]

What do you do to tackle racism?

I haven't got time . . . all those 20 seconds at the beginning of football matches add up you know.

Where did I say people are lying?

here:

If most people are honest they would probably say the same

 

[The Lego Stand]

Discussing it obviously is though. Maybe you should spend less time on here telling us that you haven't got time to tackle racism and more time concentrating on the things that you don't have time to concentrate on because you are on here telling us that you don't have time to tackle racism.

What with posting on here and watching some players take a knee for 20 seconds at the beginning of a football match I am surprised you have time for anything else. Modern life eh?



Do you believe that people who disagree with you about other topics are lying? or is it just this one?

So do you put tackling racism ahead of keeping you job / home etc? So would you give up your job and home if it meant racism was totally eradicated?

 

[BadFish]

So do you put tackling racism ahead of keeping you job / home etc? So would you give up your job and home if it meant racism was totally eradicated?

Did I have this discussion with your other account a couple of months ago?

I would give up my job and home if it meant that racism was totally eradicated yes. Without a moment's hesitation.

Be given the opportunity to make the world a far better place for millions, maybe even billions of people. Saving lives, easing misery. Wouldn't you?

 

[The Lego Stand]

I haven't got time . . . all those 20 seconds at the beginning of football matches add up you know.





here:

That's not saying people are lying!!I I said 'if people are honest'.

I'm full of admiration who prioritise tacking racism/ poverty / social injustice ahead of their own life but it's not for me. I imagine if you did a poll asking 'would you sacrifice your job and home if it meant racism was completely eradicated' the results would be in favour of most respondents keeping their job and home.

 

[The Lego Stand]

Did I have this discussion with your other account a couple of months ago?

I would give up my job and home if it meant that racism was totally eradicated yes. Without a moment's hesitation.

Wouldn't you?

Really? That's very laudable I admire you greatly for it, is that is a massive sacrifice.

Would I? No.

 

[cunning fergus]

Disappointing outcome to this poll. Even a symbolic opposition to racism is too much. Worrying

On the contrary it demonstrates what many understand what “taking the knee” is and has become.

Les Ferdinand is right, symbolic gestures may be appealing but they change nothing. For multi millionaire footballers in particular they can make genuine change by donating their money to anti racist causes (not necessarily BLM).

Not a few quid but let’s start with say half their salaries, plus those on SKY, BT Sport who support BLM.

The entertainers too, like Banjo etc. they have the money to drive change, let them put their money where their mouths are, create scholarships for poor black children, create a social bank for black people that provides loans etc. on a non capitalist basis.

They are benefiting from a capitalist system, if they support a cause that seeks to overturn it or reform it they can be the pioneers. In comparison, taking the knee has no value at all.

 

[The Lego Stand]

I haven't got time . . . all those 20 seconds at the beginning of football matches add up you know.





here:

They make such a huge difference to tacking racism don't they!!

 

[schmunk]

I have the right to post on any thread I like.

You've posted this twice now, in your 70-odd posts, and been wrong both times. You are given license to post here by Bozza and the Mods*, but that can be taken from you at any point without recourse.







* I'm thinking some sort of Ska-fusion band. Strong anti-racist messaging. One US College Radio hit then a long decline.

 

[BadFish]

Really? That's very laudable I admire you greatly for it, is that is a massive sacrifice.

Would I? No.

Small sacrifice for the global reward for millions/billions of people who are adversely affected by it to varying degrees.

No reason to admire me for it, I haven't done anything. The fact is that your hypothetical is. . . well. . . hypothetical.

Personally, I admire our club and players for using their profile to spread the message by taking a knee at football. Hopefully, Ferdinand's words will also make a difference and football will do more.

 

[BadFish]

They make such a huge difference to tacking racism don't they!!

I wouldn't say they make huge difference but certainly a little difference. At least 20 seconds a week's worth . . . probably more.

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

They make such a huge difference to tacking racism don't they!!

Yes a lot of people think it does make a difference. Millions of people watch sport, even Sussex CCC had 50,000 viewers watching the Kent game the other day when they all showed support by doing this.

So players do have a platform to non violently protest for change. Like the fact we are both Albion fans supporting our local sports teams. The cause sounds like it's your cause as well, many of us are struggling for work, access to testing, bringing up families at the moment. These all affect British BAME people worse than most of us.

Did you used to sit in the Lego Stand, I only ever used to when I went into the ground when no game was on, sometimes the players were training. It was the weirdest looking thing and one of the things that shows how far our club has come. I love the work Albion in the Community does from women's to disability football, suicide prevention, cancer prevention and employment courses to get people qualifications and back into work, just to name a few.

Albion (AITC) are committed to improving the lives of people they come onto contact with, they celebrate the diversity in our community's and to this end support positive change in anyway they can influence it.

As I have already said we are both Albion fans and may have stood next to each other at away games or chatted in the Q for the park and ride or by the old Lego Stand at the Goldstone. We have the Albion in common. I embrace the money the Albion have put into the system and I have enjoyed this incredible ride. The players and club see it as a positive gesture as part of all the good they do in Sussex for everyone.

 

[The Lego Stand]

Small sacrifice for the global reward for millions/billions of people who are adversely affected by it to varying degrees.

No reason to admire me for it, I haven't done anything. The fact is that your hypothetical is. . . well. . . hypothetical.

Personally, I admire our club and players for using their profile to spread the message by taking a knee at football. Hopefully, Ferdinand's words will also make a difference and football will do more.

Well I do greatly admire for saying you would.

 

[Grombleton]

Is he an Albion fan?

68 posts so far:

* 67 bemoaning the plight of the poor downtrodden salt of the earth white male
* 1 vaguely relating to the wages of Lewis Dunk

I'm smelling 'second account', but I cant place whose...

 

[Killer Whale]

I agree with your point... to a point.

The reason it is meaningful is that it gives a huge number of people a small reminder about what is going on in the world. A reminder that one group of people are still being mistreated based on skin colour. This may make us consider how ridiculous it is that this is still going on in 2020. I don't see it as political because support for this idea isn't partisan, it isn't woke, it is just about decency.

If the club and the players* want to continue to take the opportunity to show support for the idea f not being a dick to someone because of their skin colour or heritage in front of millions of fans, then what is the problem with that?

Serious Question?

*Another serious question is: What have their salaries got to do with anything? Surely if you are so disgusted with the amount they earn it would be for kicking an air-filled ball around the park rather than going down on one knee to raise awareness of racism? How is that 20 seconds of their day the part you find beyond the pale?

The salaries (and I accept that I used a loaded, emotive term to qualify them) are relevant to this extent.

The whole theoretical underpinning of the BLM narrative is that black people are subject to an imbalance of power in the UK and US, are confronted with racism on a daily basis, are more likely to be shot dead by the police, suffer income disparities, lower employment opportunities and are prejudiced on the basis of skin colour.

Yet black men are over represented in the highest reaches of professional football compared to the population as a whole, their lived experience refutes the theory, in their chosen field. (And this is even more the case in the NFL where black players FAR outnumber white ones, despite forming a fraction of the white general demographic). Football is Darwinian, if you are good enough, you play, whatever the colour of your skin. And this is a job which is amongst the most glamorous, most richly rewarded in the entire society. (American football is an even bigger example of this phenomenon, which is why the players' decision not to take a knee to the National Anthem is so resented by so many of the (largely) white, blue collar fan base. Multi millionaires, dripping with WAGS, telling guys who earn less in a year than they do in a few days to check their white privilege is probably somewhat galling).


Football isn't very racist. It used to be, sure, but now it really isn't.

That is a good thing, of course. But why are we pretending something is what it isn't?

 

[BadFish]

The salaries (and I accept that I used a loaded, emotive term to qualify them) are relevant to this extent.

The whole theoretical underpinning of the BLM narrative is that black people are subject to an imbalance of power in the UK and US, are confronted with racism on a daily basis, are more likely to be shot dead by the police, suffer income disparities, lower employment opportunities and are prejudiced on the basis of skin colour.

Yet black men are over represented in the highest reaches of professional football compared to the population as a whole, their lived experience refutes the theory, in their chosen field. (And this is even more the case in the NFL where black players FAR outnumber white ones, despite forming a fraction of the white general demographic). Football is Darwinian, if you are good enough, you play, whatever the colour of your skin. And this is a job which is amongst the most glamorous, most richly rewarded in the entire society. (American football is an even bigger example of this phenomenon, which is why the players' decision not to take a knee to the National Anthem is so resented by so many of the (largely) white, blue collar fan base. Multi millionaires, dripping with WAGS, telling guys who earn less in a year than they do in a few days to check their white privilege is probably somewhat galling).


Football isn't very racist. It used to be, sure, but now it really isn't.

That is a good thing, of course. But why are we pretending something is what it isn't?

Interesting that you have chosen to address the asterisked question in my post. Until you mentioned it here I had not considered that the players have been suggesting that I or anyone else check my white privilege. In fact, now you come to mention it I don't believe for a second that this is their intention. I am sorry you find this galling but I am less than convinced that this is relevant to the protest and by extension neither is their salary.

Sorry for the edit, by why do you find it galling? Is this the same outrage as people get when film stars or musicians stand up for a cause?

Is it a money thing? I don't get it. I like the fact that people are using their wealth and profile to raise awareness about stuff. It is the least they can do IMHO. Princess Di was always lauded for it, yet others are criticised. Weird.

 

[The Lego Stand]

You've posted this twice now, in your 70-odd posts, and been wrong both times. You are given license to post here by Bozza and the Mods*, but that can be taken from you at any point without recourse.







* I'm thinking some sort of Ska-fusion band. Strong anti-racist messaging. One US College Radio hit then a long decline.

get over ya self mate, what a load of patronising rubbish.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

QPR Director of Football Les Ferdinand said: “This should not be about QPR. Many clubs did not take the knee on the opening weekend, yet this was not reported.
“Taking the knee was very powerful but we feel that impact has now been diluted.
“In the same way ‘Clap For Carers’ was very emotional for us all, it got to a stage where it had run its natural course and the decision was rightly made to stop it.
“Does that mean we, as a nation, don’t care or appreciate our NHS workers? Of course it doesn’t.
“No one is more passionate than me about this topic. I have spoken on the matter throughout my footballing life.
“I work for one of the most diverse football clubs in this country. A lot of people are being fooled out there.
“Recently, I took the decision not to do any more interviews on racism in football because the debate was going around in circles. People want a nice soundbite when something happens, but how many of the media who have criticised QPR over the past 48 hours genuinely want change?
“The taking of the knee has reached a point of ‘good PR’ but little more than that. The message has been lost. It is now not dissimilar to a fancy hashtag or a nice pin badge.
“What are our plans with this? Will people be happy for players to take the knee for the next ten years but see no actual progress made?
“Taking the knee will not bring about change in the game - actions will.
“Those media that have been quick to question us should be looking more inwardly. Our Under 18s were forced to abandon a game in August 2019 against AD Nervion FC due to racist abuse.
“More than 12 months on, UEFA refused to deal with the situation and the Spanish FA did nothing.
“What media coverage has been given to that? Not nearly as much as what has been granted to QPR not taking a knee.
“Don’t judge us. Simple research and evidence will show you we are doing more than most. If you want change, judge yourselves.”

Ferdinand has suffered racism, he’s campaigned against it and highlighted it for a long time.

I respect his decision and excellent explanation.

This. All of it.

 

[schmunk]

get over ya self mate, what a load of patronising rubbish.

I think you'll find it's patronising TRUTH.

 

[Killer Whale]

Interesting that you have chosen to address the asterisked question in my post. Until you mentioned it here I had not considered that the players have been suggesting that I or anyone else check my white privilege. In fact, now you come to mention it I don't believe for a second that this is their intention. I am sorry you find this galling but I am less than convinced that this is relevant to the protest and by extension neither is their salary.

Sorry for the edit, by why do you find it galling? Is this the same outrage as people get when film stars or musicians stand up for a cause?

Is it a money thing? I don't get it. I like the fact that people are using their wealth and profile to raise awareness about stuff. It is the least they can do IMHO. Princess Di was always lauded for it, yet others are criticised. Weird.

I was talking about the a large proportion the NFL fan base finding it "galling".

I don't find it galling myself, but I do find it at best irrelevant and worst, mildly irritating. Footballers talk with their feet and in most cases their brains are in their boots. I don't find what comes out of their mouths particularly interesting on any subject, certainly not politics.

 

[Seasider78]

The taking of the knee was a powerful sign of unity against a failing of society which was brought back to the worlds attention by the killing of George Floyd. This action along with the protests and pulling down of statues showed the world that enough is is enough and change needed to happen.

From that moment there was hope that this would prove to be the platform for real change but the argument has been diluted down to the lowest form of debate with discussion about which programmes should be removed from TV, which other statues should be pulled down, should we take the knee or not. None of these things will achieve the positive change that was needed and just serve to further fuel the pointless bickering. This is what I think Ferdinand is getting at that people are sick of gestures, hashtags and t-shirts there needs to be action.

Take football as an example we still allow players to play through racist abuse from the stands, we still allow countries with persistently racist fans to compete in major competitions, we still have issues with BAME representation at the top table of the governance of the game.

Rather than give the football authorities the get out of jail card of gestures, labels on shirts and hashtags where is the pressure for them commit to a series of changes that actually resolve the problem in footballs own back yard.

Maybe then we can say Black lives really did matter.