How many will follow Coventry and QPR’s lead?

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Sensible stuff. Did they put out a similar statement before the match?

No. Hence the kerfuffle.

I think Ferdinand is wrong. Taking the knee won't end racism; actions will. Obviously. Taking the knee is to remind people that actions are needed. If actions are being taken, great (and if so, what are they?). If actions are not being taken, stopping taking the knee, something that annoys the absolute **** out of the gammon and the racists, will do nothing more than signal to the gammon and racists that they have won.

Anyway, I'm bored, now, with people going on about it being time to stop taking the knee. Time to move on, and get on with our lives.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It was always a meaningless, virtue signalling stunt, which made absolutely no difference to the ills of society.

Yet to stop doing it seems to be have been regarded by Sky Sports (in that interview) as somehow reprehensible. I wasn't aware that Sky television has suddenly been annointed the moral arbiters of our society and culture?

They would be well advised to stick to discussing the vagaries of the new handball rule.

More, why does everything, even football have to dragged into this culture war which is tearing our society apart? Wouldn't it be great to have an escape from it for ninety minutes every Saturday afternoon?

Exactly the same as going to church and praying to God, standing during the national anthem, and wearing a poppy in November.

Unless, of course, you actually care about your God, patriotism, the nation and the war dead.

Clearly you don't give a shit about racism

 

[GT49er]

#teamferdinand ........................................

 

[Bladders]

Exactly the same as going to church and praying to God, standing during the national anthem, and wearing a poppy in November.

Unless, of course, you actually care about your God, patriotism, the nation and the war dead.

Clearly you don't give a shit about racism

Come off it , that’s a reach if you think any of those are the same

Seriously


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[Killer Whale]

I don't think it is becoming meaningless.[/I]

My view is that this politicisation of football is to be deprecated. I just want to go to a football match (when that is ever allowed again, but that is another story) and forget politics.

But let's accept your premise, I don't for a moment, but for the sake of argument.

We are a country being completely ripped apart by identity politics. Brexit (an expression of that) is the obvious exemplar, half the country still hates the other half. We are utterly riven asunder by class, race, and ethnicity. The country is going to almost bankrupted by the response to Covid. Unemployment is about to go through the roof, with all the consequent social friction.

With that apocalyptic political and societal background, talk me through exactly how a bunch of ridiculously overpaid footballers going on one knee before every game is in any sense "meaningful?"

Serious question?

 

[Guinness Boy]

My view is that this politicisation of football is to be deprecated. I just want to go to a football match (when that is ever allowed again, but that is another story) and forget politics.

But let's accept your premise, I don't for a moment, but for the sake of argument.

We are a country being completely ripped apart by identity politics. Brexit (an expression of that) is the obvious exemplar, half the country still hates the other half. We are utterly riven asunder by class, race, and ethnicity. The country is going to almost bankrupted by the response to Covid. Unemployment is about to go through the roof, with all the consequent social friction.

With that apocalyptic political and societal background, talk me through exactly how a bunch of ridiculously overpaid footballers going on one knee before every game is in any sense "meaningful?"

Serious question?

How is the equal treatment of people regardless of their skin colour “politics”?


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[BN9 BHA]

I think Ferdinand is wrong. :

You tell him.

 

[KNC]

Such an NSC poll.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

No. Hence the kerfuffle.

I think Ferdinand is wrong. Taking the knee won't end racism; actions will. Obviously. Taking the knee is to remind people that actions are needed. If actions are being taken, great (and if so, what are they?). If actions are not being taken, stopping taking the knee, something that annoys the absolute **** out of the gammon and the racists, will do nothing more than signal to the gammon and racists that they have won.

Anyway, I'm bored, now, with people going on about it being time to stop taking the knee. Time to move on, and get on with our lives.

I enjoy a lot of what you have to say, but you seem to say 'gammon' in more and more posts lately. Have you noticed

 

[Killer Whale]

How is the equal treatment of people regardless of their skin colour “politics”?


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We need to define our terms.

How do you define politics so as to exclude the subject?

A quick web search came up with the following definition:

Politics (from Greek: Πολιτικά, politiká, 'affairs of the cities') is the set of activities that are associated with making decisions in groups, or other forms of power relations between individuals, such as the distribution of resources or status.

The equal treatment of people regardless of their skin colour is definitely a question of politics according to that definition, I suggest, but what is your alternative one if you disagree?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

How is the equal treatment of people regardless of their skin colour “politics”?


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Getting a whiff, now, of why I raise an eyebrow to the 'time to move on' contingent?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I enjoy a lot of what you have to say, but you seem to say 'gammon' in more and more posts lately. Have you noticed

There's a lot of it about. Too much for my liking.

Anyway, enough is enought about commenting on comments about gammon. Time to move on.

 

[The Lego Stand]

My view is that this politicisation of football is to be deprecated. I just want to go to a football match (when that is ever allowed again, but that is another story) and forget politics.

But let's accept your premise, I don't for a moment, but for the sake of argument.

We are a country being completely ripped apart by identity politics. Brexit (an expression of that) is the obvious exemplar, half the country still hates the other half. We are utterly riven asunder by class, race, and ethnicity. The country is going to almost bankrupted by the response to Covid. Unemployment is about to go through the roof, with all the consequent social friction.

With that apocalyptic political and societal background, talk me through exactly how a bunch of ridiculously overpaid footballers going on one knee before every game is in any sense "meaningful?"

Serious question?

Great post!! Don't expect him to reply though, he comes on here spouting his oh so woke b*llox, usually insulting anyone who disagrees with him, but when he's challenged (as you've done) he disappears.

 

[BadFish]

My view is that this politicisation of football is to be deprecated. I just want to go to a football match (when that is ever allowed again, but that is another story) and forget politics.

But let's accept your premise, I don't for a moment, but for the sake of argument.

We are a country being completely ripped apart by identity politics. Brexit (an expression of that) is the obvious exemplar, half the country still hates the other half. We are utterly riven asunder by class, race, and ethnicity. The country is going to almost bankrupted by the response to Covid. Unemployment is about to go through the roof, with all the consequent social friction.

With that apocalyptic political and societal background, talk me through exactly how a bunch of ridiculously overpaid footballers going on one knee before every game is in any sense "meaningful?"

Serious question?

I agree with your point... to a point.

The reason it is meaningful is that it gives a huge number of people a small reminder about what is going on in the world. A reminder that one group of people are still being mistreated based on skin colour. This may make us consider how ridiculous it is that this is still going on in 2020. I don't see it as political because support for this idea isn't partisan, it isn't woke, it is just about decency.

If the club and the players* want to continue to take the opportunity to show support for the idea f not being a dick to someone because of their skin colour or heritage in front of millions of fans, then what is the problem with that?

Serious Question?

*Another serious question is: What have their salaries got to do with anything? Surely if you are so disgusted with the amount they earn it would be for kicking an air-filled ball around the park rather than going down on one knee to raise awareness of racism? How is that 20 seconds of their day the part you find beyond the pale?

 

[BadFish]

We need to define our terms.

How do you define politics so as to exclude the subject?

A quick web search came up with the following definition:

Politics (from Greek: Πολιτικά, politiká, 'affairs of the cities') is the set of activities that are associated with making decisions in groups, or other forms of power relations between individuals, such as the distribution of resources or status.

The equal treatment of people regardless of their skin colour is definitely a question of politics according to that definition, I suggest, but what is your alternative one if you disagree?

Those are pretty wide parameters to exclude from the footballing experience. I am not sure we would get out of the pub if we excluded discussing the first part. Or even worse still, I don't think we would make it into the pub

Seriously though why are your rather wide range of subjects not appropriate for football? I know a few people tell me that politics and sport should be kept apart but I really don't see the need. 20 seconds of time before kick-off is hardly intrusive. Especially when you consider where we have come from.

I don't think it is overstating it to say that if it were not for mixing politics with sport we would not be here now discussing it. Mixing politics with sport is/was an integeral part of our fairly recent history. The stadium we sit and the team we watch is a direct result of said mix.

I suppose the same people were sitting on their hands back then and tut-tutting when the goalposts got broken, when the postcards got sent, when the board was serenaded with songs about bonfires, when the directors were chased from their box, when Jimmy Case came onto the pitch to call for calm as those pesky activists sat in the centre circle. I'll stop now as this list goes on and on.

Perhaps it is not the politics per se that bothers people? I say that we have politics to thank for being in a position where we can now suddenly decide to say no more politics.

I know that you are a Leeds fan but I also know that you have had your fair share of politics at Elland Road in the last 16 years . . . and if you haven't then you should have.

 

[portlock seagull]

Those are pretty wide parameters to exclude from the footballing experience. I am not sure we would get out of the pub if we excluded discussing the first part. Or even worse still, I don't think we would make it in to the pub

Seriously though why are your rather wide range of subjects not appropriate for football? I know a few people tell me that politics and sport should be kept apart but I really don't see the need. 20 seconds of time before kick off is hardly intrusive.

Because it’s now just complete bollocks really, as Sir Les said tonight. Don’t worry, another event will take its place soon enough as football continues its fight against tyranny and the abuse of power....anyone able to send the FA and FIFA a mirror each?

 

[GT49er]

Anyone calling people 'Gammon' if they believe it's time for British football teams to stop taking the knee has lost the argument. Les Ferdinand has stated his belief that taking the knee, although once powerful, is now a meaningless gesture, like a hashtag or a fancy badge/pin; he is quite right. But no, to some people, by advocating ending it he must by definition be 'Gammon'. He clearly isn't.

Case closed. His ways of challenging racism are far superior to calling people 'Gammon'.

 

[Weststander]

QPR Director of Football Les Ferdinand said: “This should not be about QPR. Many clubs did not take the knee on the opening weekend, yet this was not reported.
“Taking the knee was very powerful but we feel that impact has now been diluted.
“In the same way ‘Clap For Carers’ was very emotional for us all, it got to a stage where it had run its natural course and the decision was rightly made to stop it.
“Does that mean we, as a nation, don’t care or appreciate our NHS workers? Of course it doesn’t.
“No one is more passionate than me about this topic. I have spoken on the matter throughout my footballing life.
“I work for one of the most diverse football clubs in this country. A lot of people are being fooled out there.
“Recently, I took the decision not to do any more interviews on racism in football because the debate was going around in circles. People want a nice soundbite when something happens, but how many of the media who have criticised QPR over the past 48 hours genuinely want change?
“The taking of the knee has reached a point of ‘good PR’ but little more than that. The message has been lost. It is now not dissimilar to a fancy hashtag or a nice pin badge.
“What are our plans with this? Will people be happy for players to take the knee for the next ten years but see no actual progress made?
“Taking the knee will not bring about change in the game - actions will.
“Those media that have been quick to question us should be looking more inwardly. Our Under 18s were forced to abandon a game in August 2019 against AD Nervion FC due to racist abuse.
“More than 12 months on, UEFA refused to deal with the situation and the Spanish FA did nothing.
“What media coverage has been given to that? Not nearly as much as what has been granted to QPR not taking a knee.
“Don’t judge us. Simple research and evidence will show you we are doing more than most. If you want change, judge yourselves.”

Ferdinand has suffered racism, he’s campaigned against it and highlighted it for a long time.

I respect his decision and excellent explanation.

 

[BadFish]

QPR Director of Football Les Ferdinand said: “This should not be about QPR. Many clubs did not take the knee on the opening weekend, yet this was not reported.
“Taking the knee was very powerful but we feel that impact has now been diluted.
“In the same way ‘Clap For Carers’ was very emotional for us all, it got to a stage where it had run its natural course and the decision was rightly made to stop it.
“Does that mean we, as a nation, don’t care or appreciate our NHS workers? Of course it doesn’t.
“No one is more passionate than me about this topic. I have spoken on the matter throughout my footballing life.
“I work for one of the most diverse football clubs in this country. A lot of people are being fooled out there.
“Recently, I took the decision not to do any more interviews on racism in football because the debate was going around in circles. People want a nice soundbite when something happens, but how many of the media who have criticised QPR over the past 48 hours genuinely want change?
“The taking of the knee has reached a point of ‘good PR’ but little more than that. The message has been lost. It is now not dissimilar to a fancy hashtag or a nice pin badge.
“What are our plans with this? Will people be happy for players to take the knee for the next ten years but see no actual progress made?
“Taking the knee will not bring about change in the game - actions will.
“Those media that have been quick to question us should be looking more inwardly. Our Under 18s were forced to abandon a game in August 2019 against AD Nervion FC due to racist abuse.
“More than 12 months on, UEFA refused to deal with the situation and the Spanish FA did nothing.
“What media coverage has been given to that? Not nearly as much as what has been granted to QPR not taking a knee.
“Don’t judge us. Simple research and evidence will show you we are doing more than most. If you want change, judge yourselves.”

Ferdinand has suffered racism, he’s campaigned against it and highlighted it for a long time.

I respect his decision and excellent explanation.

Well said. . . I support his and QPRs stance on this. I also support those clubs and players who choose to continue.

I applaud all that are trying to make a difference with this stuff.

Adding to what Ferdinand has said, I would love to see a high profile team walk off the pitch when racially abused. This should have happened a couple of years ago with England.

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[BadFish]

Because it’s now just complete bollocks really, as Sir Les said tonight. Don’t worry, another event will take its place soon enough as football continues its fight against tyranny and the abuse of power....anyone able to send the FA and FIFA a mirror each?

As compelling an argument as 'it's complete bollocks' is, could you put some meat on the bones and explain why the club are wrong to continue to devote 20 second of time to this cause?

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