How many will follow Coventry and QPR’s lead?

[GT49er]

Kneel if you want to - it's really not hard.

More a case of kneel if you don't want abuse all over social media, surely.

 

[The Lego Stand]

QPR, of course, have taken real and direct action against racism in the past by appointing a black director of football in Les Ferdinand and Chris Ramsey as manager. So if they decide that taking the knee is a gesture they no longer feel they have to make then their opinion should probably be respected more than most. But I'd be interested to know whose decision it was.

Yes but surely the 'direct action' they took made them racist as I remember at the time they appointed Jimmy Floyd H as manager Les Ferdinand stated they were looking to appoint a BAME manager, imagine the uproar if a club said they were looking to appoint a white manager? Would probably lead to arrests and points deductions.

 

[Acker79]

Aren't all these 'if they always do it, it loses meaning' ... 'how many are doing it so they don't get trolled' etc. points just as applicable to other sings, such as the poppy. People wearing them every year because they've always worn them. Look at how much abuse James Mclean gets every time he decides not to wear one. The criticism of TV presenters. There are undoubtedly people wearing them just to avoid the abuse or because they have to 'cause their team are. How would the people bemoaning players taking the knee would be happy to see teams not wearing the poppy because 'we know, there's no need to keep harping on. I'm not gonna forget just because I don't have a plastic flower on my shirt'?

 

[GT49er]

Les Ferdinand has just nailed it. His statement was just read out in full on SSN. Time for it to end.

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

Brilliant to see both the Newcastle and Brighton staff and players taking the knee yesterday.

Still a powerful thing to do, sending out a strong message to so many areas of society that Black Lives Matter.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Les Ferdinand has just nailed it. His statement was just read out in full on SSN. Time for it to end.

Les Ferdinand is a ‘kin role model for all. Hard working, grounded, intelligent, positive, upward looking, persuasive, and much more too. His opinion should be highly regarded.

 

[Seasider78]

Les Ferdinand has just nailed it. His statement was just read out in full on SSN. Time for it to end.

QPR statement in full which at a high level is calling for action not gestures


IN light of comments made across the media following the decision for Coventry City and QPR not to ‘take the knee’ ahead of our EFL Championship fixture on Friday night, the club would like to make the following statement.

We have noted with great interest a number of people within football and media questioning our decision not to take the knee before the game.

The decision – which was made jointly with Coventry City and the match referee ahead of the fixture – was not made to suggest a lack of support for the Black Lives Matter movement.

QPR Director of Football Les Ferdinand said: “This should not be about QPR. Many clubs did not take the knee on the opening weekend, yet this was not reported.

“Taking the knee was very powerful but we feel that impact has now been diluted.

“In the same way ‘Clap For Carers’ was very emotional for us all, it got to a stage where it had run its natural course and the decision was rightly made to stop it.

“Does that mean we, as a nation, don’t care or appreciate our NHS workers? Of course it doesn’t.

“No one is more passionate than me about this topic. I have spoken on the matter throughout my footballing life.

“I work for one of the most diverse football clubs in this country. A lot of people are being fooled out there.

“Recently, I took the decision not to do any more interviews on racism in football because the debate was going around in circles. People want a nice soundbite when something happens, but how many of the media who have criticised QPR over the past 48 hours genuinely want change?

“The taking of the knee has reached a point of ‘good PR’ but little more than that. The message has been lost. It is now not dissimilar to a fancy hashtag or a nice pin badge.

“What are our plans with this? Will people be happy for players to take the knee for the next ten years but see no actual progress made?

“Taking the knee will not bring about change in the game - actions will.

“Those media that have been quick to question us should be looking more inwardly. Our Under 18s were forced to abandon a game in August 2019 against AD Nervion FC due to racist abuse.

“More than 12 months on, UEFA refused to deal with the situation and the Spanish FA did nothing.

“What media coverage has been given to that? Not nearly as much as what has been granted to QPR not taking a knee.

“Don’t judge us. Simple research and evidence will show you we are doing more than most. If you want change, judge yourselves.”

QPR CEO Lee Hoos added: “As many of us know, the taking of the knee originated from the US where athletes have been doing it to protest against social injustice and police brutality.

“What you’ll find is that players in the States on the same team choose to express themselves differently - and in the US, it is a statement of protest, not just a symbolic gesture.

“And that is how it should be - each individual needs to be free to make their own decision on how to express intolerance for social injustice, without fear of being negatively judged.

“The EFL guidance states that it is for the players and teams to make their own decisions on this, but as a matter of courtesy should let their opposition and the match referee know.

“As a club, we fully support our players – whether they choose to take a knee or not. We judge our players by their actions and every one of them has been extremely supportive of our values and goals - and they are the values and goals of the most diverse club in the country.

“I have seen no media organisations who come close to matching what we do to further the causes of social justice and inclusion, nor BAME representation at senior level. This is despite them having considerably more resources than we do.

“To be blunt, anyone who thinks our players condone racism because they didn’t take a knee really doesn’t get it. Anyone who responds to Black Lives Matter by saying all lives matter really doesn’t get it. Anyone who thinks just taking a knee is sufficient in fighting social injustice really doesn’t get it.

“Actions speak louder than words. People need to DO something more than simple gestures.

“We will continue to support not just our players but all players who believe in greater social equality and how they wish to legitimately express those views.

“Our support is in our actions.”

 

[Bakero]

QPR statement in full which at a high level is calling for action not gestures


IN light of comments made across the media following the decision for Coventry City and QPR not to ‘take the knee’ ahead of our EFL Championship fixture on Friday night, the club would like to make the following statement.

We have noted with great interest a number of people within football and media questioning our decision not to take the knee before the game.

The decision – which was made jointly with Coventry City and the match referee ahead of the fixture – was not made to suggest a lack of support for the Black Lives Matter movement.

QPR Director of Football Les Ferdinand said: “This should not be about QPR. Many clubs did not take the knee on the opening weekend, yet this was not reported.

“Taking the knee was very powerful but we feel that impact has now been diluted.

“In the same way ‘Clap For Carers’ was very emotional for us all, it got to a stage where it had run its natural course and the decision was rightly made to stop it.

“Does that mean we, as a nation, don’t care or appreciate our NHS workers? Of course it doesn’t.

“No one is more passionate than me about this topic. I have spoken on the matter throughout my footballing life.

“I work for one of the most diverse football clubs in this country. A lot of people are being fooled out there.

“Recently, I took the decision not to do any more interviews on racism in football because the debate was going around in circles. People want a nice soundbite when something happens, but how many of the media who have criticised QPR over the past 48 hours genuinely want change?

“The taking of the knee has reached a point of ‘good PR’ but little more than that. The message has been lost. It is now not dissimilar to a fancy hashtag or a nice pin badge.

“What are our plans with this? Will people be happy for players to take the knee for the next ten years but see no actual progress made?

“Taking the knee will not bring about change in the game - actions will.

“Those media that have been quick to question us should be looking more inwardly. Our Under 18s were forced to abandon a game in August 2019 against AD Nervion FC due to racist abuse.

“More than 12 months on, UEFA refused to deal with the situation and the Spanish FA did nothing.

“What media coverage has been given to that? Not nearly as much as what has been granted to QPR not taking a knee.

“Don’t judge us. Simple research and evidence will show you we are doing more than most. If you want change, judge yourselves.”

QPR CEO Lee Hoos added: “As many of us know, the taking of the knee originated from the US where athletes have been doing it to protest against social injustice and police brutality.

“What you’ll find is that players in the States on the same team choose to express themselves differently - and in the US, it is a statement of protest, not just a symbolic gesture.

“And that is how it should be - each individual needs to be free to make their own decision on how to express intolerance for social injustice, without fear of being negatively judged.

“The EFL guidance states that it is for the players and teams to make their own decisions on this, but as a matter of courtesy should let their opposition and the match referee know.

“As a club, we fully support our players – whether they choose to take a knee or not. We judge our players by their actions and every one of them has been extremely supportive of our values and goals - and they are the values and goals of the most diverse club in the country.

“I have seen no media organisations who come close to matching what we do to further the causes of social justice and inclusion, nor BAME representation at senior level. This is despite them having considerably more resources than we do.

“To be blunt, anyone who thinks our players condone racism because they didn’t take a knee really doesn’t get it. Anyone who responds to Black Lives Matter by saying all lives matter really doesn’t get it. Anyone who thinks just taking a knee is sufficient in fighting social injustice really doesn’t get it.

“Actions speak louder than words. People need to DO something more than simple gestures.

“We will continue to support not just our players but all players who believe in greater social equality and how they wish to legitimately express those views.

“Our support is in our actions.”

Sensible stuff. Did they put out a similar statement before the match?

 

[The Lego Stand]

Brilliant to see both the Newcastle and Brighton staff and players taking the knee yesterday.

Still a powerful thing to do, sending out a strong message to so many areas of society that Black Lives Matter.

So want tangible benefits will we see by the 'powerful' taking of the knee yesterday?

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Didn’t take the knee prior to kick off in the Sky Championship game last night.

Sky tried to make a big thing of it at 90 minutes, but Mark Warburton’s response was admirable and hopefully will strike a chord with other clubs. When pressed why they didn’t do it he pointed out perhaps they’d like to talk about all the work Rangers do in the community in West London and have done for many years rather than one specific gesture.

So why didn't they do it?

 

[Megazone]

You can't argue with it. Racism has definitely come down since we've started doing this.

 

[GT49er]

So why didn't they do it?

See post #127.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

See post #127.

Yep, I saw it after I posted

 

[GT49er]

Sensible stuff. Did they put out a similar statement before the match?

I don't think so - and neither did any of the 16 other clubs who decided not to do it (it was either 16 clubs, or at 16 matches - only half heard it on NSC).

 

[MattBackHome]

So it's not for the reasons Warburton stated then.

 

[cunning fergus]

QPR statement in full which at a high level is calling for action not gestures


IN light of comments made across the media following the decision for Coventry City and QPR not to ‘take the knee’ ahead of our EFL Championship fixture on Friday night, the club would like to make the following statement.

We have noted with great interest a number of people within football and media questioning our decision not to take the knee before the game.

The decision – which was made jointly with Coventry City and the match referee ahead of the fixture – was not made to suggest a lack of support for the Black Lives Matter movement.

QPR Director of Football Les Ferdinand said: “This should not be about QPR. Many clubs did not take the knee on the opening weekend, yet this was not reported.

“Taking the knee was very powerful but we feel that impact has now been diluted.

“In the same way ‘Clap For Carers’ was very emotional for us all, it got to a stage where it had run its natural course and the decision was rightly made to stop it.

“Does that mean we, as a nation, don’t care or appreciate our NHS workers? Of course it doesn’t.

“No one is more passionate than me about this topic. I have spoken on the matter throughout my footballing life.

“I work for one of the most diverse football clubs in this country. A lot of people are being fooled out there.

“Recently, I took the decision not to do any more interviews on racism in football because the debate was going around in circles. People want a nice soundbite when something happens, but how many of the media who have criticised QPR over the past 48 hours genuinely want change?

“The taking of the knee has reached a point of ‘good PR’ but little more than that. The message has been lost. It is now not dissimilar to a fancy hashtag or a nice pin badge.

“What are our plans with this? Will people be happy for players to take the knee for the next ten years but see no actual progress made?

“Taking the knee will not bring about change in the game - actions will.

“Those media that have been quick to question us should be looking more inwardly. Our Under 18s were forced to abandon a game in August 2019 against AD Nervion FC due to racist abuse.

“More than 12 months on, UEFA refused to deal with the situation and the Spanish FA did nothing.

“What media coverage has been given to that? Not nearly as much as what has been granted to QPR not taking a knee.

“Don’t judge us. Simple research and evidence will show you we are doing more than most. If you want change, judge yourselves.”

QPR CEO Lee Hoos added: “As many of us know, the taking of the knee originated from the US where athletes have been doing it to protest against social injustice and police brutality.

“What you’ll find is that players in the States on the same team choose to express themselves differently - and in the US, it is a statement of protest, not just a symbolic gesture.

“And that is how it should be - each individual needs to be free to make their own decision on how to express intolerance for social injustice, without fear of being negatively judged.

“The EFL guidance states that it is for the players and teams to make their own decisions on this, but as a matter of courtesy should let their opposition and the match referee know.

“As a club, we fully support our players – whether they choose to take a knee or not. We judge our players by their actions and every one of them has been extremely supportive of our values and goals - and they are the values and goals of the most diverse club in the country.

“I have seen no media organisations who come close to matching what we do to further the causes of social justice and inclusion, nor BAME representation at senior level. This is despite them having considerably more resources than we do.

“To be blunt, anyone who thinks our players condone racism because they didn’t take a knee really doesn’t get it. Anyone who responds to Black Lives Matter by saying all lives matter really doesn’t get it. Anyone who thinks just taking a knee is sufficient in fighting social injustice really doesn’t get it.

“Actions speak louder than words. People need to DO something more than simple gestures.

“We will continue to support not just our players but all players who believe in greater social equality and how they wish to legitimately express those views.

“Our support is in our actions.”

Good news, less of the North Korean style choreographed actions, now it’s over to the multi millionaires to start making meaningful financial contributions to “good causes” that support poor black people. Before each match they should disclose their donations so we can keep track of their commitment to eradicate racism.

Maybe the should be quotas of white players/managers/back room staff so we can get the diversity rates in English football up?

Ben White can go for a start, he sounds like racist.

 

[The Large One]

I agree with those who say it's becoming meaningless. We are at a reverse psychology point now. Taking a knee was Kaepernick's protest against the anthem and it stood out because he was the only one doing it. Now Warburton has decided unilateraly not to it is him that is standing out and his message that is coming across.

The FA, EPL and EFL should decide one last round of games where it is the last time it happens and that there is a message attached to it, and then that's it. Time to replace a gesture with real action and focus on community (here I agree with Warburton) and closing the very real gaps in opportunities for BAME people that still exist in the game.

I don't think it is becoming meaningless. A physical gesture to protest against racial prejudice will always be worthwhile. The only way it will be considered 'meaningless' is if racism were eradicated from society.

Face it, who are the people on here and in the media grizzling loudest about this? The ones who don't take racism seriously, and whine about anti-racism messages, and who want to carry on their own agenda without any concept of taking responsibility for their words. And those who dismiss it are, ironically, the ones who are being called out over it - yet don't understand that.

That said, there is nothing to say that a visual message (as constantly put up during the game on Sky), reinforcing anti-racist rhetoric can't be shown. The fact that I couldn't tell you whether it's on the electronic advert hoardings during the game shows a more overt message needs to be got out there.

This morning Warburton is a gammon folk hero because no one in power thought to say "right, this season it's time for actions instead of gestures".

And this is now his problem. If he doesn't wish to be the new gammon pin-up boy, he needs to choose his words more carefully. If he doesn't care about that, he's in the wrong job.


Edit: It appears as though it's taken Les Ferdinand to clear up the mess. This is an emotive subject, and clarity is key. QPR / Warburton were less than clear before the game.

 

[Killer Whale]

It was always a meaningless, virtue signalling stunt, which made absolutely no difference to the ills of society.

Yet to stop doing it seems to be have been regarded by Sky Sports (in that interview) as somehow reprehensible. I wasn't aware that Sky television has suddenly been annointed the moral arbiters of our society and culture?

They would be well advised to stick to discussing the vagaries of the new handball rule.

More, why does everything, even football have to dragged into this culture war which is tearing our society apart? Wouldn't it be great to have an escape from it for ninety minutes every Saturday afternoon?

 

[C1 BHA]

It was always a meaningless, virtue signalling stunt, which made absolutely no difference to the ills of society.

Yet to stop doing it seems to be have been regarded by Sky Sports (in that interview) as somehow reprehensible. I wasn't aware that Sky television has suddenly been annointed the moral arbiters of our society and culture?

They would be well advised to stick to discussing the vagaries of the new handball rule.

More, why does everything, even football have to dragged into this culture war which is tearing our society apart? Wouldn't it be great to have an escape from it for ninety minutes every Saturday afternoon?

Well said [emoji106]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Guinness Boy]

I don't think it is becoming meaningless. A physical gesture to protest against racial prejudice will always be worthwhile. The only way it will be considered 'meaningless' is if racism were eradicated from society.

Face it, who are the people on here and in the media grizzling loudest about this? The ones who don't take racism seriously, and whine about anti-racism messages, and who want to carry on their own agenda without any concept of taking responsibility for their words. And those who dismiss it are, ironically, the ones who are being called out over it - yet don't understand that.

That said, there is nothing to say that a visual message (as constantly put up during the game on Sky), reinforcing anti-racist rhetoric can't be shown. The fact that I couldn't tell you whether it's on the electronic advert hoardings during the game shows a more overt message needs to be got out there.



And this is now his problem. If he doesn't wish to be the new gammon pin-up boy, he needs to choose his words more carefully. If he doesn't care about that, he's in the wrong job.


Edit: It appears as though it's taken Les Ferdinand to clear up the mess. This is an emotive subject, and clarity is key. QPR / Warburton were less than clear before the game.

I was about to reply with Les's viewpoint, which I agree with:

Queens Park Rangers director of football Les Ferdinand says the impact of taking a knee "has been diluted".

QPR and Coventry City did not carry out the gesture in support of the Black Lives Matter movement before their Championship match on Friday.

"The message has been lost. It is now not dissimilar to a fancy hashtag or a nice pin badge," Ferdinand said in a statement on the club website.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54237179