How many will follow Coventry and QPR’s lead?

[Taybha]

If Lala has to do it all season I fear he may be rested every other game to protect both of them .

#saveadamsknees

 

[WATFORD zero]

So. if Mr Warburton phoned every other club and said 'lets stop this knee nonsense'. there would still be some one up in arms over his decision to be the first. There is no way round this as some one will be offended.
Until a fool proof plan comes into force, whereby all people, regardless of colour, creed or religion can mingle together without the fear of abuse.... be it verbal or physical, then all cultures will carry on exactly as nothing has happened. To change history you have to make history, but it doesn't happen overnight and it's a fight against those who oppose it

But he didn't, he just decided it was going to stop and knew what would happen, allegedly. (The rest of your post I agree with completely).

It may be time to stop, and I'm sure there will be mixed opinions but, as pointed out above, if the Albion had taken the lead in this discussion on stopping it, it would have been done in VERY different way, making sure that there was agreement amongst those concerned (which is really the players, not the fans, when it comes down to it).

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Warburton is now a hero for that generation of dim witted subconsciously racist traditionalists.

He came across as arrogant, ignorant and deceptive in blaming the FA and implying that it was the choice of both teams. The interview with Coventry’s brilliant Mark Robins afterwards explaining that Coventry were surprised and that it was QPR’s decision not to take the knee was telling. My assumption from Warburton’s self-righteous ranting was that he was the one who put a stop the the kneeling.

If the OP is so impressed with Warburton and so offended by players taking the knee, he might prefer to start following the progress of the West London club instead of making up nonsense about Brighton players potentially earning more than £100k for clickbait.

This.

As someone posted, when we let in 2,000 supporters to watch the Chelsea friendly a couple felt empowered to boo the taking of the knee.

I don't think I need to add anything to that.

 

[dingodan]

I've always taken a different view about the taking a knee thing. I don't strongly oppose it or anything, and I understand why it's being done, but there is another way of looking at it.

When it started, my understanding is that the original intention was to not stand for the national anthem because America (the flag, the anthem etc) represent something racist. To quote Colin Kaepernick (the original knee taker) "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of colour."

Well here is the problem as I see it. The United States, the flag, the anthem etc, do not represent something racist at all. Quite the opposite. To quote The Declaration of Independence, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..." You couldn't find a greater example of the antithesis of racism than the founding documents of the United States. When a Police Officer shoots an unarmed black man, that Police Officer is violating what the country stands for. They are rejecting the principles on which the country was founded.

I would say, if you want to stand up against racism then you have no greater ally than the founding principles of the United States. You don't take a knee to the flag, you hold it aloft. You don't take a knee for the national anthem, you sing it aloud. Because you believe in the principles on which the country was founded. It's corrupt and racist Police Officers who don't believe in them. Don't let those Police Officers define what you think America is about, because they don't. What America is about, if understood properly, is the opposite of racism, individual liberty, equality under the law etc. The answer is found in the very things being rejected by those who are taking a knee.

Again, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..."

I know taking a knee is a symbolic gesture, and I'm certainly not criticizing those who do it. But I think when you think deeply about it, it is somewhat misguided, in my opinion.

 

[LamieRobertson]

But he didn't, he just decided it was going to stop and knew what would happen. (The rest of your post I agree with completely).

It may be time to stop, and I'm sure there will be mixed opinions but, as pointed out above, if Brighton had taken the lead in this discussion on stopping it, it would have been done in VERY different way, making sure that there was agreement amongst those concerned (which is really the players, not the fans, when it comes down to it).

I thought the post match Interviews with the managers was confusing....Warburton talked a lot about their being no directive but didn’t seem to say that he had told his team not to...and yet Robins said it was down to QPR...the Sky lot having made so much of what QPR do re racism then seemed to completely ignore what Robins said about it being QPR’s decision

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

But he didn't, he just decided it was going to stop and knew what would happen. (The rest of your post I agree with completely).

It may be time to stop, and I'm sure there will be mixed opinions but, as pointed out above, if Brighton had taken the lead in this discussion on stopping it, it would have been done in VERY different way, making sure that there was agreement amongst those concerned (which is really the players when it comes down to it).

Newcastle's players forgot to do it last Saturday at West Ham and only remembered when they saw the Hammers players kneeling. But by then they'd kicked off so Jonjo Shelvey had to kick the ball back to the centre circle from a half-kneeling position. At that point I thought it had probably run its course.

On Warburton's reaction, of course clubs in many inner-city areas don't need to prove their awareness that black lives matter because their community programmes do so every day. Whereas those in less culturally diverse locations might want to keep taking the knee. But both teams in any given match need to do it.

 

[Bakero]

I can’t see any reason to think it bothers the op reading his post.

Why have you missed the point of the opening post?

This isn't his first post on the subject.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I agree with those who say it's becoming meaningless. We are at a reverse psychology point now. Taking a knee was Kaepernick's protest against the anthem and it stood out because he was the only one doing it. Now Warburton has decided unilateraly not to it is him that is standing out and his message that is coming across.

The FA, EPL and EFL should decide one last round of games where it is the last time it happens and that there is a message attached to it, and then that's it. Time to replace a gesture with real action and focus on community (here I agree with Warburton) and closing the very real gaps in opportunities for BAME people that still exist in the game.

This morning Warburton is a gammon folk hero because no one in power thought to say "right, this season it's time for actions instead of gestures".

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Not at all.

It’s that sad old tradition of exceptionalism I object to by people too dull to realise the consequence of their actions. Taking the knee is now a convention, why is there a need to break it without universal approval?

I see it every time I go to the supermarket with people not wearing masks, they can’t understand why they have to do it so simply don’t.

Warburton has clearly had enough of the recent ‘taking the knee’ trend, reading between the lines, he has obviously told his players not to do it, what did the idiot think the media reaction would be?

If the Albion wanted to stop our players taking the knee, you would see a different approach. An intelligent and strategic plan would have been developed with Barber probably floating the idea to the press and indicating clearly and intelligently (without ranting and raging whataboutery) why it is time to move on, I feel sorry for QPR fans being in the middle of this, I’m not sure many of them will be as proud of their manager as the OP is.

And all of this.

I would add that if it is annoying people that players are taking the knee this is justification alone for carrying on with it.

I remember back in the day the equivalent of gammon (it was probably trotter back then) complaining about black news readers. 'Not another one!'. And equal pay for women? 'Well, really!'.

As for all this pious bollocks about it 'having the opposite effect of what was intended' as it 'has been going on too long now' . . . . if you think you aren't racist, ask yourself why you think this, why you are annoyed, how you think it is affecting people who are racist?

I say let the players ram this in the face of racists week after week until their tiny point heads explode.

 

[Berty23]

I am still not over people who said that they would listen to peaceful protest there should be no violence feeling the need to contact ofcom about a dance routine. Everything is sorted folks. Move along.

 

[BN9 BHA]

This isn't his first post on the subject.

I haven’t seen them, hence my reply.

I was surprised this thread wasn’t started by ( anyone ) yesterday evening, as it was all over social media and obviously discussed on Sky.

 

[beorhthelm]

The majority of football clubs do excellent community work, can’t really see the point Warburton is trying to make.

i suppose it was about taking action rather than making gestures.

the clip from BBC NFL show is makes a nuanced argument from Osi, with Jason saying people should do what they feel is right.

 

[LamieRobertson]

I have seen them, hence my reply.

I was surprised this thread wasn’t started by ( anyone ) yesterday evening, as it was all over social media and obviously discussed on Sky.

I toyed with it last night but thought it would end up in the bear pit and don’t normally go there

 

[Shooting Star]

I didn't watch the game last night so I can't comment on either of the manager's comments. However, it seems that because society has progressed significantly with racism over the past 100 years and the racism that persists is, especially in the UK, claimed to be institutional. This is a lot harder to put your finger on. Thus taking a knee, which was originally a show of solidarity with protesters in the USA over George Floyd's killing, has now become society's litmus test over who is and isn't racist.

Taking the knee = not a racist
Not taking the knee = at worst racist, at best complicit with institutional racism

Yet if you are a football club that has structural mechanisms of racism in the way it organises itself, your players taking a knee is an empty gesture that surreptitiously hides what's going on behind the scenes. Club bosses get to pat themselves on the back for looking like they're tackling racism, without doing anything about it.

And then of course, there is the question of how long to do it for. The problem with the notion of institutional racism is that there isn't a concrete goal. The solution to slavery was abolition. The solution to segregation was desegregation. The solution to supposed marriage inequality was the legalisation of same-sex marriage. Without a concrete aim, it is understandably hard for teams to know how long to keep on showing these gestures of solidarity without diluting the meaning of it.

 

[BN9 BHA]

I toyed with it last night but thought it would end up in the bear pit and don’t normally go there

Fair comment

 

[el punal]

I thought it had now become a permanent thing and is just part of the match day routine?

Like the ‘Hallelujah Handshake’ before every match, or the ‘let’s all line up in the tunnel together so the ref can march out in front and pick up the match ball from some crap plastic podium’?

Bring back the good old days when the teams ran out separately - that way you could really cheer on the boys when they made their entrance and give absolute shit and grief to the opposition when they came out.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I agree with those who say it's becoming meaningless. We are at a reverse psychology point now. Taking a knee was Kaepernick's protest against the anthem and it stood out because he was the only one doing it. Now Warburton has decided unilateraly not to it is him that is standing out and his message that is coming across.

The FA, EPL and EFL should decide one last round of games where it is the last time it happens and that there is a message attached to it, and then that's it. Time to replace a gesture with real action and focus on community (here I agree with Warburton) and closing the very real gaps in opportunities for BAME people that still exist in the game.

This morning Warburton is a gammon folk hero because no one in power thought to say "right, this season it's time for actions instead of gestures".

Partly. There are other reasons why he's a gammon hero, though.

There may be a case for the authorities to do what you suggest, but they haven't done so, perhaps because they feel it is not their call to tell players to not take the knee?

Would people be happier if only black players were allowed to do it? Or perhaps nobody allowed to do it and any who do being fined? What should the football authorities do - allow it or ban it?

Perhaps the authorities can say you can do it if you want be we don't really like it, and we aren't going to let the ref signal it with a whistle any more, so you'll have to sort of do it 'in your own time' during the warm up?

That way those who 'feel' the BLM trope (mostly black players) strongly can do their gesture, and the rest of us can jolly well get on with our lives.

Mmmmmmnnnnnnno. No matter how I look at it, I think the knee taking is good and should continue.

I ask a simple question: who could be offended or see it as counter productive for players to take the knee?

 

[Lush]

I think it should stay.

One of the issues that some black players voiced was that we'd have a 'Kick It Out' match, everyone would wear the T -shirts, ticked the box, and things went back to normal.

That's not to say that there isn't good work being done in pretty much every club, but until skin colour genuinely doesn't matter, I think it should stay.

Football has a lot of black players. It's a good demonstration of inclusivity to - dare I say it - an audience that can tend towards English Defence League views.

Taking the knee should be a constant reminder of the issue that BAME people face. It's easy to make the point and doesn't involve special organisation of banners and T-shirts.

 

[Bakero]

I've always taken a different view about the taking a knee thing. I don't strongly oppose it or anything, and I understand why it's being done, but there is another way of looking at it.

When it started, my understanding is that the original intention was to not stand for the national anthem because America (the flag, the anthem etc) represent something racist. To quote Colin Kaepernick (the original knee taker) "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of colour."

Well here is the problem as I see it. The United States, the flag, the anthem etc, do not represent something racist at all. Quite the opposite. To quote The Declaration of Independence, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..." You couldn't find a greater example of the antithesis of racism than the founding documents of the United States. When a Police Officer shoots an unarmed black man, that Police Officer is violating what the country stands for. They are rejecting the principles on which the country was founded.

I would say, if you want to stand up against racism then you have no greater ally than the founding principles of the United States. You don't take a knee to the flag, you hold it aloft. You don't take a knee for the national anthem, you sing it aloud. Because you believe in the principles on which the country was founded. It's corrupt and racist Police Officers who don't believe in them. Don't let those Police Officers define what you think America is about, because they don't. What America is about, if understood properly, is the opposite of racism, individual liberty, equality under the law etc. The answer is found in the very things being rejected by those who are taking a knee.

Again, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..."

I know taking a knee is a symbolic gesture, and I'm certainly not criticizing those who do it. But I think when you think deeply about it, it is somewhat misguided, in my opinion.

The Declaration of Independence did indeed espouse noble ideals but I don't think I need to point out the elephant in the cotton field.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I think it should stay.

One of the issues that some black players voiced was that we'd have a 'Kick It Out' match, everyone would wear the T -shirts, ticked the box, and things went back to normal.

That's not to say that there isn't good work being done in pretty much every club, but until skin colour genuinely doesn't matter, I think it should stay.

Football has a lot of black players. It's a good demonstration of inclusivity to - dare I say it - an audience that can tend towards English Defence League views.

Taking the knee should be a constant reminder of the issue that BAME people face. It's easy to make the point and doesn't involve special organisation of banners and T-shirts.

Personally, I would prefer it stayed, but it's really not mine or your decision. Nor is it any other fans, or any of the various Football Authorities, or the managers etc etc

It's the Players who do it, the Players who decided to do it, and the Players should decide whether it continues or stops. No one else. I really can't see an issue