How long do you think this shit will go on and what happens if its really long?

[Kinky Gerbil]

The problem is how the messaging and media have whipped up a frenzy where everyone is now sh&&ting themselves way beyond the actual risk of the disease killing you. If this goes on really long the sentiment of people wanting to hide away waiting for a cure that may never come is going to have to change as if we don't get back to some sort of normal then we are going to live in a world where huge swathes of the population live on a universal credit system living hand to mouth. The prospect for our children will be a world where employment is scarce.

The Government have started to take the right steps by removing JRS and reducing it down.

Get people back to work

 

[Notters]

They are but it's limited. They're in on a shift basis dependent on the needs of the key worker kids - so for instance my wife (Year 3) at a single form entry school, is in around 2 days every 2 weeks (around 19 kids max from the whole school). If you look at 1st June regs, it could mean c90 kids for a single form entry school which would increase the amount of staff who would be required to come back, plus continuing to school the other years remotely.

To be fair I think I'd take the small risk of catching a virus which we're probably going to all catch anyway whilst getting paid in full for working 20% of my hours! But I do appreciate it may present some difficulties particularly where the kids are vulnerable or live with vulnerable people.

The problem is how the messaging and media have whipped up a frenzy where everyone is now sh&&ting themselves way beyond the actual risk of the disease killing you. If this goes on really long the sentiment of people wanting to hide away waiting for a cure that may never come is going to have to change as if we don't get back to some sort of normal then we are going to live in a world where huge swathes of the population live on a universal credit system living hand to mouth. The prospect for our children will be a world where employment is scarce.

To be fair the frenzy has probably been necessary in order to get people to practice social distancing. We've already seen loads of people ignoring it regardless.

 

[BrickTamland]

I think the eventual outcome will be down to a mixture of individuals risk assessment and the normality of the situation/less media exposure. Despite the numbers dead/infected the reality is, is that it is still a tiny tiny overall amount of the population. Even if going to bars/restaurants or any big gatherings of people increases your risk of infection, people will still do them. Much like people smoke, drink, drive fast cars and all of these others things which are just as likely to cause you harm. The second point is my impression of the U.K. at the moment is that corona is at the very forefront of everyone’s mind, not due to directly being infected/knowing infected but because of the restrictions which are directly effecting your every day lives. As things are a bit more ‘normal’ here, you can go about your days pretty normally and thus it’s not really feeling all that all-encompassing. I think as restrictions get lifted (as people grow tired of them and adopt a position presented above) things will spiral back to some degree of normal in the next year or so, with minor adjustments in terms of hygiene going forward. In fact, im pretty certain that’s how it will go.

 

[narly101]

To be fair I think I'd take the small risk of catching a virus which we're probably going to all catch anyway whilst getting paid in full for working 20% of my hours! But I do appreciate it may present some difficulties particularly where the kids are vulnerable or live with vulnerable people.

Wow - so you think teachers are just working 20% of their hours? She's "in" school around 2 days every 2 weeks to teach the kids of keyworkers and the vulnerable. The other 8 days are teaching her year group remotely.

Sweet Christmas, is it any wonder that the majority of us are worried about people using their "common sense"?

 

[Notters]

Wow - so you think teachers are just working 20% of their hours? She's "in" school around 2 days every 2 weeks to teach the kids of keyworkers and the vulnerable. The other 8 days are teaching her year group remotely.

Sweet Christmas, is it any wonder that the majority of us are worried about people using their "common sense"?

No, I have no idea what she is doing, but I do know what the teachers I know are doing, and thy aren't teaching anyone remotely, they're watching box sets and playing monopoly.

Fair play to her though!

Genuinely didn't mean to offend - I just think the government's message is and always has been to flatten the curve, it isn't practical to have everyone completely out of harm's way.

 

[keaton]

The science relating to children getting and passing on the virus appears very uncertain. The latest view appears to be they are not key carriers but I have not seen the evidence.

Teachers are not in the same position as nhs staff because the latter are dealing with seriouly ill people all the time. Having said that no one should be told to work i an environment that is knowingly unsafe.

I also think that sending reception and year 1 kids back is effectively ditching social distancing for them: even 12 in a room will not magically make them able to distance. I say that as a grandad of a 5 and 8 year old living in the same household with them and mum who is a nurse. Even for us who try to distance its a huge problem for little o es to remember.

On the guidance they've sent relating to schools reopening they've said there is" high scientific confidence" children have less severe symptoms and "moderately high scientific confidence" younger children are less likely to be unwell. Nothing about them being less likely to transmit. Either way it doesn't fill me with confidence

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

I just think the government's message is and always has been to flatten the curve, it isn't practical to have everyone completely out of harm's way.

And that is the crux of the matter. It has always been about reducing the number of people requiring hospital treatment and overwhelming the NHS.

Sadly, If it was a case of say 50 people a day dying for the next six months but the rest of the country going about it business then we’d be out of lockdown tomorrow .......


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Some interesting views here. There are some points made 'if - then' scenarious that could be expanded upon.

Q. Is this like flu, meaning even like the 1918 one, it will smack us up only once then fade away?
A. If Cova is a seasonal virus like flu then it will fade away as the environment becomes unfavourable, and a new mutant, possibly less nasty, will emerge next September. However, the 1918 flu was very spreadable, very lethal, and like all flus it mutated (fortunately to a less lethal form). Cova may not be seasonal, and it is nowhere near as lethal as the 1918 flu. To mutate you need the mutant to supercede the parent strain. If Cova doesn't fade the pressure for a less lethal mutant to emerge is less. So we may be stuck with this same nasty virus for some years.

Q. Can we not just be like Sweden and get on with our lives?
A. Our population density and other factors are different from Sweden. We have a different outlook. We already have a high number of deaths. People are understandably frightened. If you are under 50 with kids and no olds in the household you can easily start thinking 'We'll be fine, let's restart our life' but there is still a perception, reasonable in my view, that you could easily pass on the virus to someone older, like me, and I'd die. So, from my perspective, no, no we can't.

Q. Are we going to have to live like this forever?
A. No. In the long run we will have a vaccine and, unlike flu, almost everyone will take it (could be enforced - information captured on identity cards with restricted mobility imposed on the tin hat brigade, such as no access to the Amex, if we decide prison is punishment too far). With a vaccine and a manufacture and distribution pipeline it will be easy enough to tinker with the epitope (like a fingerprint or lock) each year to make a new vaccine like we make for flu. Note that not everyone gets flu vac today because of costs; because cova is more dangerous (to the old) the benefit of widespread vaccination will be seen to outweight costs.

Q What can we do till we have a vaccine?
A. Be like Germany. Take social distancing, testing and tracing ultra seriously, so we can get new cases very low, then we can experiment with opening up society again, but with lots of testing and social distancing. We can try this but it may not work and loosening of restrictions may kick it all off again (if it isn't seasonal). The latter is the biggest worry because in the UK this would be massivley demoralising and economically harmful. That's why I'm frightened and worried.

Q. Could the government be doing more?
A. Yes but at risk and cost. We have followed a process that HMG figures is the best fit for Brits. This is coming apart a bit now as it is increasingly becoming the best fit for England. Especially young white working class and young entitled middle class England where the desire to pardee (sorry, 'get on with our lives') is starting to grow, and the sod you jack, I'm allright attitude is never too far below the surface. I personally would have preferred a swifter more Germanic intervention, tailored to the less compliant more obstreporous English with visible police presence, blanket TV propaganda on how to 'social distance' (on a par with the Aids ads of the 80s), and sombre Falklands War style TV updates. They have been a bit silly with 'be alert' but they can dig themselves out of that hole easily enough. Unfortunately Boris is sounding under-prepared lately, and there is a danger that they repeat the mistakes of John Major's last days (anyone remember the pre-election cartoon of Ken Clarke in Private Eye, shirt hanging out, hair a mess, fag in hand, with the caption 'we even cocked up the bribe'?).

Q. Should Starmer just get behind the government?
A. Yes. But he needs to be invited to the Cobra meetings and he'd then see that the decisions are being made by Cummings, so that's not happening. I think he's doing fine, being leader of the opposition in a measured way. He can defenestrate Boris later, if it transpires HMG have been making decisions primarily for party political reasons (or rank incompetance) which I don't believe is the case. Astonishingly.

Q. We are going to leave the EU with no deal in November, right?
A. I'd have said no chance were it not for the fact that, the EU has been useless over Covid so who needs them (and I'm an avowed remainer)? That said, the nations of the EU, and the commission and its soppy MEPs (think chain smoking Italian in a shiny suit, and Farrage) are not the same thing at all. I'd be astonished if Boris goes cap in hand to the EU in the summer, and yet I am unaware of any progress in the negociations. Anyway, this one's best left for another day.

So [MENTION=38333]Swansman[/MENTION], what do you think is going to happen?

 

[LamieRobertson]

Some interesting views here. There are some points made 'if - then' scenarious that could be expanded upon.

Q. Is this like flu, meaning even like the 1918 one, it will smack us up only once then fade away?
A. If Cova is a seasonal virus like flu then it will fade away as the environment becomes unfavourable, and a new mutant, possibly less nasty, will emerge next September. However, the 1918 flu was very spreadable, very lethal, and like all flus it mutated (fortunately to a less lethal form). Cova may not be seasonal, and it is nowhere near as lethal as the 1918 flu. To mutate you need the mutant to supercede the parent strain. If Cova doesn't fade the pressure for a less lethal mutant to emerge is less. So we may be stuck with this same nasty virus for some years.

Q. Can we not just be like Sweden and get on with our lives?
A. Our population density and other factors are different from Sweden. We have a different outlook. We already have a high number of deaths. People are understandably frightened. If you are under 50 with kids and no olds in the household you can easily start thinking 'We'll be fine, let's restart our life' but there is still a perception, reasonable in my view, that you could easily pass on the virus to someone older, like me, and I'd die. So, from my perspective, no, no we can't.

Q. Are we going to have to live like this forever?
A. No. In the long run we will have a vaccine and, unlike flu, almost everyone will take it (could be enforced - information captured on identity cards with restricted mobility imposed on the tin hat brigade, such as no access to the Amex, if we decide prison is punishment too far). With a vaccine and a manufacture and distribution pipeline it will be easy enough to tinker with the epitope (like a fingerprint or lock) each year to make a new vaccine like we make for flu. Note that not everyone gets flu vac today because of costs; because cova is more dangerous (to the old) the benefit of widespread vaccination will be seen to outweight costs.

Q What can we do till we have a vaccine?
A. Be like Germany. Take social distancing, testing and tracing ultra seriously, so we can get new cases very low, then we can experiment with opening up society again, but with lots of testing and social distancing. We can try this but it may not work and loosening of restrictions may kick it all off again (if it isn't seasonal). The latter is the biggest worry because in the UK this would be massivley demoralising and economically harmful. That's why I'm frightened and worried.

Q. Could the government be doing more?
A. Yes but at risk and cost. We have followed a process that HMG figures is the best fit for Brits. This is coming apart a bit now as it is increasingly becoming the best fit for England. Especially young white working class and young entitled middle class England where the desire to pardee (sorry, 'get on with our lives') is starting to grow, and the sod you jack, I'm allright attitude is never too far below the surface. I personally would have preferred a swifter more Germanic intervention, tailored to the less compliant more obstreporous English with visible police presence, blanket TV propaganda on how to 'social distance' (on a par with the Aids ads of the 80s), and sombre Falklands War style TV updates. They have been a bit silly with 'be alert' but they can dig themselves out of that hole easily enough. Unfortunately Boris is sounding under-prepared lately, and there is a danger that they repeat the mistakes of John Major's last days (anyone remember the pre-election cartoon of Ken Clarke in Private Eye, shirt hanging out, hair a mess, fag in hand, with the caption 'we even cocked up the bribe'?).

Q. Should Starmer just get behind the government?
A. Yes. But he needs to be invited to the Cobra meetings and he'd then see that the decisions are being made by Cummings, so that's not happening. I think he's doing fine, being leader of the opposition in a measured way. He can defenestrate Boris later, if it transpires HMG have been making decisions primarily for party political reasons (or rank incompetance) which I don't believe is the case. Astonishingly.

Q. We are going to leave the EU with no deal in November, right?
A. I'd have said no chance were it not for the fact that, the EU has been useless over Covid so who needs them (and I'm an avowed remainer)? That said, the nations of the EU, and the commission and its soppy MEPs (think chain smoking Italian in a shiny suit, and Farrage) are not the same thing at all. I'd be astonished if Boris goes cap in hand to the EU in the summer, and yet I am unaware of any progress in the negociations. Anyway, this one's best left for another day.

So [MENTION=38333]Swansman[/MENTION], what do you think is going to happen?

I wish I could post like you

Ps Swansperson has posted what he thinks..number 20

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I wish I could post like you

Ps Swansperson has posted what he thinks..number 20

Cheers mate. But I'm arguably more lurid than lucid

I'll have a look....

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

A lot of interesting thoughts.

Personally I dont think this virus could be eradicated either. Its going to stick around. But if we look at the Asian flu and its "sequel" the HK flu - that would possible cause similar lockdowns if they came today - that flu is still around, only we seem less prone to it.

I also read somewhere that the Dutch (iirc) are on a mission to try to found out how the other coronaviruses (not SARS and MERS but the other four found in humans) manifested themselves when they first came around, or if these in "secret" have caused a lot of problems throughout the years.

We'll see I guess. I think I increasingly understand what our state epimediologist means when he says "we will need to find a way to live with this virus, because its unlikely to go away, even with vaccines."

I dont believe it will be as I initially thought - that we would battle this intensly for a year, maybe one and a half, and then it would all be over naturally or with medicine/vaccine. Instead I think its more likely that, depending on our level of fear and how much we can sacrifice in either direction (safety/freedom), this could go on for a very long time - possibly until the whole world got these temperature scanners and what not that they have in China. It could be five or ten ****ing years before there will be football with crowds, concerts etc... cinema was a dying concept, probably wont be any less dead in the forseeable future.

My initial "wow something (although terrible) is happening" "excitement" is gone. All that remains is really some anxiety over the future - in my case more so than fear of the virus itself tbh - and a wish to get back to our normal, dysfunctional shit global society.

You have swung from one extreme to another. Thus spake human nature (or one example thereof) as it ever was.

I started out far more concerned than you (you ****ing hippy), and I still don't like the look of the present situation, but humans are imaginative, and relentless survivors. We will find a solution. Especially in Northern Europe (plus Australia, NZ and parts of the Far East). And a few years afterwards, even America may become safe to visit.....albeit why would you? All the best

 

[Weststander]

I think the eventual outcome will be down to a mixture of individuals risk assessment and the normality of the situation/less media exposure. Despite the numbers dead/infected the reality is, is that it is still a tiny tiny overall amount of the population. Even if going to bars/restaurants or any big gatherings of people increases your risk of infection, people will still do them. Much like people smoke, drink, drive fast cars and all of these others things which are just as likely to cause you harm. The second point is my impression of the U.K. at the moment is that corona is at the very forefront of everyone’s mind, not due to directly being infected/knowing infected but because of the restrictions which are directly effecting your every day lives. As things are a bit more ‘normal’ here, you can go about your days pretty normally and thus it’s not really feeling all that all-encompassing. I think as restrictions get lifted (as people grow tired of them and adopt a position presented above) things will spiral back to some degree of normal in the next year or so, with minor adjustments in terms of hygiene going forward. In fact, im pretty certain that’s how it will go.

Other than for cinema, pubs (indoors), restaurants and large stadia sports, it wouldn’t surprise me if much of ‘normal’ life has resumed by this autumn.

 

[Mellotron]

I think the eventual outcome will be down to a mixture of individuals risk assessment and the normality of the situation/less media exposure. Despite the numbers dead/infected the reality is, is that it is still a tiny tiny overall amount of the population. Even if going to bars/restaurants or any big gatherings of people increases your risk of infection, people will still do them. Much like people smoke, drink, drive fast cars and all of these others things which are just as likely to cause you harm. The second point is my impression of the U.K. at the moment is that corona is at the very forefront of everyone’s mind, not due to directly being infected/knowing infected but because of the restrictions which are directly effecting your every day lives. As things are a bit more ‘normal’ here, you can go about your days pretty normally and thus it’s not really feeling all that all-encompassing. I think as restrictions get lifted (as people grow tired of them and adopt a position presented above) things will spiral back to some degree of normal in the next year or so, with minor adjustments in terms of hygiene going forward. In fact, im pretty certain that’s how it will go.

Best post imo.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I'll leave the medical side mostly to you. You know what you're talking about. Apparently, I don't (or not until it's too late). Politics however....

But first my one medical point.

Q What can we do till we have a vaccine?
A. Be like Germany. Take social distancing, testing and tracing ultra seriously, so we can get new cases very low, then we can experiment with opening up society again, but with lots of testing and social distancing. We can try this but it may not work and loosening of restrictions may kick it all off again (if it isn't seasonal). The latter is the biggest worry because in the UK this would be massivley demoralising and economically harmful. That's why I'm frightened and worried.

What's your view on it being seasonal? It doesn't really seem to have taken off in the tropics, at least to a large extent. Covid rife all over Africa would be a disaster and have come to all of our attentions, no? This is a (mostly) temperate, winter pandemic for now, isn't it? A few cases in Australia but they and New Zealand coped much better than Europe. Is that really just travel lock downs and population size? I don't KNOW by the way, I just expect you have a better idea than you're letting on here.

Right, now politics.

Q. Could the government be doing more?
A. Yes but at risk and cost. We have followed a process that HMG figures is the best fit for Brits. This is coming apart a bit now as it is increasingly becoming the best fit for England. Especially young white working class and young entitled middle class England where the desire to pardee (sorry, 'get on with our lives') is starting to grow, and the sod you jack, I'm allright attitude is never too far below the surface. I personally would have preferred a swifter more Germanic intervention, tailored to the less compliant more obstreporous English with visible police presence, blanket TV propaganda on how to 'social distance' (on a par with the Aids ads of the 80s), and sombre Falklands War style TV updates. They have been a bit silly with 'be alert' but they can dig themselves out of that hole easily enough. Unfortunately Boris is sounding under-prepared lately, and there is a danger that they repeat the mistakes of John Major's last days (anyone remember the pre-election cartoon of Ken Clarke in Private Eye, shirt hanging out, hair a mess, fag in hand, with the caption 'we even cocked up the bribe'?).

You write the above like we are the only nation that are like that. Human nature doesn't want to be locked down. It may have different reasons (halfwits in the US of A protesting about their "freedom" versus those in Sweden who were more or less given it). People in Spain could walk a dog so people borrowed other people's dogs (so I'm informed by a post that was on here). People in France were exchanging info on where the gendarmes were (says my dad, who lives there) and Macron was as popular as a fart in a spacesuit before that. I know these aren't reliable sources but they aren't a bloke on youtube who thinks he's a cross between David Icke and Russell Brand either. My point is PEOPLE do not want to be locked down and PEOPLE are selfish. Not just Brits. You've got to keep releasing the pressure on the brakes because a few weeks cooped up is all most of us can take. And perhaps it's not so "I'm alright" to want not to be cooped up with a controlling gaslighter or violent psychopath or an autistic kid whose daily routine involved going "out" or to a special school?

Q. Should Starmer just get behind the government?
A. Yes. But he needs to be invited to the Cobra meetings and he'd then see that the decisions are being made by Cummings, so that's not happening. I think he's doing fine, being leader of the opposition in a measured way. He can defenestrate Boris later, if it transpires HMG have been making decisions primarily for party political reasons (or rank incompetance) which I don't believe is the case. Astonishingly.

If Cummings is making the decisions then they are only being made for reasons of party politics and ego.

Q. We are going to leave the EU with no deal in November, right?
A. I'd have said no chance were it not for the fact that, the EU has been useless over Covid so who needs them (and I'm an avowed remainer)? That said, the nations of the EU, and the commission and its soppy MEPs (think chain smoking Italian in a shiny suit, and Farrage) are not the same thing at all. I'd be astonished if Boris goes cap in hand to the EU in the summer, and yet I am unaware of any progress in the negociations. Anyway, this one's best left for another day.

And here, also as a staunch remainer, I have changed my mind completely. This is probably the best time to crack on with it. The EU have indeed been useless. Borders and airports are almost unmanned. The economy is being Donald Ducked harder than a German housewife in one of EP's special videos. Supermarkets have had a practice run at panic buying and fruit farms at getting in pickers. To be fair, we might has well get on with it.

In fact, if I were a cross between a lizard and Russell Brand on youtube I'd be telling my tin foil hatted followers that coronavirus was a conspiracy virus released by Johnson and Cummings to make Brexit look not that shit after all and I'd even call BJ's own dice with death a false flag.

I'm not Swansman though, so I won't.

 

[keaton]

And perhaps it's not so "I'm alright" to want not to be cooped up with a controlling gaslighter or violent psychopath or an autistic kid whose daily routine involved going "out" or to a special school?/QUOTE] Not relating to you but a number of other people on here and in the press have mentioned those groups in particular. It's odd that their normal comments and political views would suggest they don't care much about supporting those people in normal circumstances

 

[Guinness Boy]

What's your view on it being seasonal? It doesn't really seem to have taken off in the tropics, at least to a large extent. Covid rife all over Africa would be a disaster and have come to all of our attentions, no? This is a (mostly) temperate, winter pandemic for now, isn't it? A few cases in Australia but they and New Zealand coped much better than Europe. Is that really just travel lock downs and population size? I don't KNOW by the way, I just expect you have a better idea than you're letting on here.

Coda:

South Africa actually has one of the toughest lockdowns in the world, including banning sales of alcohol and cigarettes and night time curfews.

Now they have moved out of Southern Hemisphere summer they have a peak anyway.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-52619308

The article doesn't mention the change in season, but it doesn't really explain how such a massively tough lockdown regime is failing.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Not relating to you but a number of other people on here and in the press have mentioned those groups in particular. It's odd that their normal comments and political views would suggest they don't care much about supporting those people in normal circumstances

I'm not sure where that comes from. Are there people on here who are SUPPORTING psychological or physical violence or who are somehow against autism?

 

[keaton]

I'm not sure where that comes from. Are there people on here who are SUPPORTING psychological or physical violence or who are somehow against autism?

No, only that being right wing, libertarian anti-taxation,etc l, funding and providing support and services to these people isn't usually something they would support

 

[CheeseRolls]

I think within 6 months we will see a three pronged attack on the virus, start to take some of the fear and impact away.

Anti-Body testing will be helpful for some, but not enough on its own.
More effective treatment at all stages, meaning fewer need to go to hospital, fewer get severe symptoms and fewer die. The risk is suddenly quantifiable and acceptable.
A better understanding of risk factors, so we can all make informed choices about the risks we are taking.

We still have the capacity to screw this up, but I remain cautiously optimistic normality is not totally dependent on a vaccine.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I'll leave the medical side mostly to you. You know what you're talking about. Apparently, I don't (or not until it's too late). Politics however....

But first my one medical point.



What's your view on it being seasonal? It doesn't really seem to have taken off in the tropics, at least to a large extent. Covid rife all over Africa would be a disaster and have come to all of our attentions, no? This is a (mostly) temperate, winter pandemic for now, isn't it? A few cases in Australia but they and New Zealand coped much better than Europe. Is that really just travel lock downs and population size? I don't KNOW by the way, I just expect you have a better idea than you're letting on here.

I don't know. I am still hopeful it is seasonal but fearful it isn't. I'll say no more than that for now. I did consider it early on the numbers thread but I am none the wiser.

Right, now politics.



You write the above like we are the only nation that are like that. Human nature doesn't want to be locked down. It may have different reasons (halfwits in the US of A protesting about their "freedom" versus those in Sweden who were more or less given it). People in Spain could walk a dog so people borrowed other people's dogs (so I'm informed by a post that was on here). People in France were exchanging info on where the gendarmes were (says my dad, who lives there) and Macron was as popular as a fart in a spacesuit before that. I know these aren't reliable sources but they aren't a bloke on youtube who thinks he's a cross between David Icke and Russell Brand either. My point is PEOPLE do not want to be locked down and PEOPLE are selfish. Not just Brits. You've got to keep releasing the pressure on the brakes because a few weeks cooped up is all most of us can take. And perhaps it's not so "I'm alright" to want not to be cooped up with a controlling gaslighter or violent psychopath or an autistic kid whose daily routine involved going "out" or to a special school?

Sorry, I didn't explain myself well. I meant 'in comparison with 'Germany' we Brits (etc etc). I absolutely agree with your take, but I think it is more marked here than in Germany, and it informed my assessment of the thinking behind the tories not going full lockdown on day 1 (to avoid a gammon-lution). People tell me I'm being far too generous to the tories on this one. Maybe so. Being a bit generous to the tories is my new thing. But I have my Big Stomper Boots just over there <points> for what some may regard as the inevitable



If Cummings is making the decisions then they are only being made for reasons of party politics and ego.

Party polutics and everyones' best interest can often coincide. But on this occasion the margin of error is unforgiving, and the scope for monumental cock up is great. I feel the tories are close (to having to suck smoke back up their arses) but, as yet, no cigar.



And here, also as a staunch remainer, I have changed my mind completely. This is probably the best time to crack on with it. The EU have indeed been useless. Borders and airports are almost unmanned. The economy is being Donald Ducked harder than a German housewife in one of EP's special videos. Supermarkets have had a practice run at panic buying and fruit farms at getting in pickers. To be fair, we might has well get on with it.

In fact, if I were a cross between a lizard and Russell Brand on youtube I'd be telling my tin foil hatted followers that coronavirus was a conspiracy virus released by Johnson and Cummings to make Brexit look not that shit after all and I'd even call BJ's own dice with death a false flag.

I'm not Swansman though, so I won't.

On that.....as I noted elsewhere, yes, shocking lack of role in Covid but....leaving the EU.....we shall see....I'd still rather we ran it than ran away from it....too late now I guess.

All the best, young man.