How Ingerland Is Killing England...

[Pavilionaire]

I found that article a bit pretentious. Saying Harry Redknapp should be manager of England because he's English (and is therefore fluent in English) is a valid point. Arguing that we should have picked Walcott or Bent are also valid arguments, as is putting on Crouch as opposed to Heskey.

Our most successful managers in tournaments have been Sir Alf, Sir Bobby and El Tel - all English and all have managed to get the full respect of their players. We'd have never got the shenanigans of Terry with any of those guys; any words spoken would have been said behind closed doors.

 

[nwgull]

I thought it was a good article, but this is probably because it reflects many of my viewpoints. I actually heard the guy phone in to 606 to say that the government should cut the players' wages, it was nice to hear Alan Green slap him down by pointing out who pays their salaries and that all England earnings go to charity anyway.

We'll get another crop of decent English players soon enough. Besides it's only a game, the results of which will never directly affect our lives.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

I thought it was a very good article. I too am sick of hearing about how the players are overpaid, messi is the highest paid player in the world and he does ok!

Also the passion thing is ridiculous, it is used far too much and if all that was needed on a pitch to win was passion and commitment then japan and south Korea would win everything. I would much rather have 11 talented players who win than 11 committed losers.

 

[Simster]

How best to sum up that article: unoriginal, superior, and lacking in any depth or insight.

The author is portraying his/her view point as the only 'rational, perceptive and intelligent' stance, and that everyone else who might think differently is an imbecile. What a load of bollocks. The main conclusion seems to be our technique isn't as good as it should be. Hardly earth-shattering, we've all known that for 30 years.

You can't KNOW Crouch wouldn't have done better than someone else. Suspect it, but you can't know. You can't KNOW that an English manager wouldn't get more out of English players. You can't KNOW that money isn't a factor, maybe honour and glory are a stronger motivator for lesser-paid players and nations, even on the training pitch as they get out there and hone their technique.

If they really wanted to make it better (and I doubt they do, just sneer at some Sun readers) there are two glaring omissions from the whole analysis: the emphasis on technique and fun at younger ages, and then the relative lack of English players operating at the top level in our game. The sooner that six plus five rule gets in, if it ever does, the better.

In short, it's the worst sort of snide attack on anyone daring to put forward populist or mainstream views.

Indeed. I was going to post that this is a load of self righteous indignant bollocks but you've done it so much better. The author sounds like a f***ing plum as far as I'm concerned.

We're all entitled to an opinion for fucks sake.

 

[John Bumlick]

Indeed. I was going to post that this is a load of self righteous indignant bollocks but you've done it so much better. The author sounds like a f***ing plum as far as I'm concerned.

We're all entitled to an opinion for fucks sake.

i particularly liked "comically unaware of the tautology."

"oh tarquin, i do love how you mock the state educated simpletons!"
"thank you, oliver! and the best part is they don't even know what a tautology is!"
"yes, yes! we are wonderfully superior aren't we?"
"of course we are. now, oliver, would you like to nuzzle my balls and taint again?"
"oh, may i!?!"

 

[seagullsoverlincoln]

I agree with much of the article. However, i believe that not having an englishman in
charge of the national side is symptomatic of the problem-that our coaching system is
so inadequate that not only are our players not taught basic technique from an early age,but we are unable to produce a national coach from our system.

 

[Knotty]

Indeed. I was going to post that this is a load of self righteous indignant bollocks but you've done it so much better. The author sounds like a f***ing plum as far as I'm concerned.

We're all entitled to an opinion for fucks sake.

You are right - it is self-righteous and indignant ...but no more so than what you have written here.

It isn't bollocks any more than what you have written is bollocks. It's his opinion which just happens to be different to yours.

I agree with most of what he said but fully accept and respect your belief that he is completely wrong. Doesn't make him, you or me a plum.

I would rather read an articulate, reasoned view like his, agreeing and disagreeing with parts of it, than some of the knee-jerk, childish crap that some fans and the media trot out at times like this.

 

[The Wookiee]

Apologies if fixtures.

http://www.football365.co.uk/john_nicholson/0,17033,8746_6235501,00.html

Not sure I agree with that, IMO its the press that ruins Englands chances every tournamant.

 

[Simster]

You are right - it is self-righteous and indignant ...but no more so than what you have written here.

It isn't bollocks any more than what you have written is bollocks. It's his opinion which just happens to be different to yours.

I agree with most of what he said but fully accept and respect your belief that he is completely wrong. Doesn't make him, you or me a plum.

I would rather read an articulate, reasoned view like his, agreeing and disagreeing with parts of it, than some of the knee-jerk, childish crap that some fans and the media trot out at times like this.

But I'm not arguing that he isn't entitled to his point of view. I'm arguing that he is wrong to belittle just about ALL of the popularist arguments just because they are popular and in favour with people who don't have a degree in theatre design and lack the ability to be articulate.

 

[Gwylan]

Our most successful managers in tournaments have been Sir Alf, Sir Bobby and El Tel - all English and all have managed to get the full respect of their players. We'd have never got the shenanigans of Terry with any of those guys; any words spoken would have been said behind closed doors.

Statistically our most successful managers have been Ramsey, Ericsson and Robson - in that order. The fact that SGE was Swedish shouldn't mask the fact that he was the first manager to get an England team beyond the first round of a Euro championship (on foreign soil).

I agree about Ramsey and Robson but you have a different memory of El Tel to the one I have. My abiding memory of him was the infamous dentist chair incident - before he was sacked for financial shenanigans. He'd be the last person I'd have put forward as the person to keep wayward players in line.

 

[nwgull]

I agree about Ramsey and Robson but you have a different memory of El Tel to the one I have. My abiding memory of him was the infamous dentist chair incident - before he was sacked for financial shenanigans. He'd be the last person I'd have put forward as the person to keep wayward players in line.

what was wrong with the dentist chair incident? It was just young men having a blow out and a bit of a laugh on Gazza's birthday wasn't it? No one was harmed or offended, and no laws were broken, the press just blew it out of proportion as usual.

 

[Gwylan]

what was wrong with the dentist chair incident? It was just young men having a blow out and a bit of a laugh on Gazza's birthday wasn't it? No one was harmed...

Paul Gascoigne's 'ongoing battle with alcohol' - Telegraph

Paul Gascoigne: Little boy lost | Football | The Observer

Paul Gascoigne: former footballer's battle with drink, drug addiction and depression - Telegraph

 

[Acker79]

I agree with the overall point being made, that the masses over simplify the problems, use cliches and club loyalties when trying to find a scapegoat, and that the FA often react to the masses, but some of the examples are way off, imo.

 

[nwgull]

Paul Gascoigne's 'ongoing battle with alcohol' - Telegraph

Paul Gascoigne: Little boy lost | Football | The Observer

Paul Gascoigne: former footballer's battle with drink, drug addiction and depression - Telegraph

Of course, all gazza's alcohol problems and other mental disorders were
due to the one piss up that took place when on a pre tournament tour with England. I don't know how Terry Venables sleeps at night.

 

[Igor Gurinovich?]

How best to sum up that article: unoriginal, superior, and lacking in any depth or insight.

The author is portraying his/her view point as the only 'rational, perceptive and intelligent' stance, and that everyone else who might think differently is an imbecile. What a load of bollocks. The main conclusion seems to be our technique isn't as good as it should be. Hardly earth-shattering, we've all known that for 30 years.

You can't KNOW Crouch wouldn't have done better than someone else. Suspect it, but you can't know. You can't KNOW that an English manager wouldn't get more out of English players. You can't KNOW that money isn't a factor, maybe honour and glory are a stronger motivator for lesser-paid players and nations, even on the training pitch as they get out there and hone their technique.

If they really wanted to make it better (and I doubt they do, just sneer at some Sun readers) there are two glaring omissions from the whole analysis: the emphasis on technique and fun at younger ages, and then the relative lack of English players operating at the top level in our game. The sooner that six plus five rule gets in, if it ever does, the better.

In short, it's the worst sort of snide attack on anyone daring to put forward populist or mainstream views.

inclined to agree, i dont see how fans opinions are killing england chances at all, it seems a spurious attack on people who have a different opinion.
we all have our own ideas about where we are going wrong and i think the author is a little wide of the mark on this one...

 

[El Presidente]

inclined to agree, i dont see how fans opinions are killing england chances at all, it seems a spurious attack on people who have a different opinion.
we all have our own ideas about where we are going wrong and i think the author is a little wide of the mark on this one...

It is up it's own arse to a degree, but remember when there was a campaign in The Sun for KK to be manager which was successful, and he was utterly shite.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Statistically our most successful managers have been Ramsey, Ericsson and Robson - in that order. The fact that SGE was Swedish shouldn't mask the fact that he was the first manager to get an England team beyond the first round of a Euro championship (on foreign soil).

I agree about Ramsey and Robson but you have a different memory of El Tel to the one I have. My abiding memory of him was the infamous dentist chair incident - before he was sacked for financial shenanigans. He'd be the last person I'd have put forward as the person to keep wayward players in line.

I was there at Wembley when El Tel took over from Graham Taylor and beat the Danes 1-0. There was a real, tangible sense of optimism that day, a relief that the dark days of Taylor were over. That wave built into what was to become Euro '96.

El Tel was by no means a disciplinarian, but he got us to a semi where we were unlucky against a very good German side who, of course, went on to win the tournament.

He got the best out of Gazza, Shearer and Sheringham, even McManaman and Anderton looked OK, and he left the England side in good shape too. I think he's just the sort of character the likes of Terry, Lampard and Rooney would also have responded to.

 

[nwgull]

Such a shame that Venables was forced to resign. I can't even remember what his misdemeanor was now, although I'm sure it would be insignificant relative to the stuff that Maradona has been up to during the past few years!