How disruptive WAS the summer to Oscar/Albion's preparations?

[Brighton Breezy]

Right, before I get going, I am NOT in the Oscar Out camp. More the Remain to be Convinced camp.

But keep reading how he didn't get a proper pre-season to work with the players and that the club was in turmoil when he arrived.

From what I can see online, Oscar was appointed head coach on June 26 and that the players had been due to return from summer a couple of days before. However - and I may be wrong here - the Albion didn't leave for the summer training camp until around July 14. I appreciate he won't have necessary prepared fully for pre-season, but it looks like he was in place when the player returned, give or take a couple of days when presumably they would have been largely undergoing physical examinations and tests etc.

We re-signed Upson, secured Ward as a replacement for Bridge, who has been perhaps one of our most consistent performers. Vicente left, but had hardly played. The squad remained largely intact on the season before. The budget increased on the year before.

Obviously suffered from injuries since and - as I said - I am not calling for his sacking - but are we perhaps over-estimating how much impact the Poyet saga had on Oscar's preparations? Contrary to what lots of people say, he does seem to have had pretty much a full pre-season to work with the players.

 

[Ernest]

Which is what I've been saying and now Oscar has had 9 months to input his style and tactics on the team, it is concerning that our best performances at home were at the beginning of the season and the longer Oscar has had coaching the poorer the performances have been especially at home.

Why do people want to give him more time ?

 

[Brighton Breezy]

Also, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't think fans would have been anywhere near as excited if we had appointed say, an old Manchester United youth team coach who had had one good season in somewhere like Switzerland or Scotland.

A lot of fans got over-excited by the Barcelona link.

 

[Rugrat]

I can see how it might have disrupted the beginning of season but little more. I'm not sure how much he missed either but my understanding of a lot of pre season is about getting back in shape, fitness levels up and building stamina. I guess Oscar and team might have their own ways but marginal how much impact it had.

Steve McLaren or Uwe Rosler didn't have the benefit either

 

[Foul Play Rocks]

I think the injuries have been the biggest disruption to our season rather than all the Poyet / pre-season stuff.

 

[Acker79]

Steve McLaren or Uwe Rosler didn't have the benefit either

I wonder how much having a preseason to get through with players who maybe aren't sure about you and so maybe aren't sure about your approach counts against someone.

I mean, Moyes joined united and they are a team of players with premier league titled, champions league titled, FA cups, league cups, what has moyes done to be able to command their respect? With a pre-season that scepticism will take hold and be something that needs to be overcome.

Whereas Steven mcclaren has managed in the premier league and the international team, will be able to command the respect of a championship team immediately, and because he joined when the season was underway there were matches to prepare for, and no time to sit and question him.

Oscar would probably be in that moyes camp, players unsure of why they should just accept him and his ways. Poyet was a premier league player who knew English football, his way worked, why change it to this guy who only managed kids and some low ranking Israeli league?

I would think the fall out of gus going was probably more of an issue than the "lack" of preseason, because it fed into that scepticism.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Also, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't think fans would have been anywhere near as excited if we had appointed say, an old Manchester United youth team coach who had had one good season in somewhere like Switzerland or Scotland.

A lot of fans got over-excited by the Barcelona link.

Re the Barcelona link..you are correct in that so many people commented on the possibility of signing Barcelona b players etc....under our setup that was never going to happen

 

[beorhthelm]

Steve McLaren or Uwe Rosler didn't have the benefit either

and i would very much have liked Rosler too.

The preparation is clearly a poor excuse, as its the manner of defeats that the problem. and the tactics (which are not Barcalona's) which seem to be blunted. there was a great deal of expectation, not just because of connections but reputation in the game. Barca's fans were expecting him to go back there and be groomed as a future manager. the only thing i can see he has in his defense at this stage is the personnel aren't his preferred players or play to his style. but loans haven't really made much impact and again the manner of defeats suggest another problem.

I'd be willing to give him another season, but the attitude needs to be seen to change, otherwise we might as well have another clear out and start a fresh 1st June.

 

[Silverhatch]

The biggest disruption is that: (1) he is a Barcelona disciple and it's still to be proven whether the Swansea model can be replicated i.e. can you pass your way out of the Championship, or how long will it take to build a squad that can pass its way out of the Championship; (2) he has never worked in the English game before; (3) his English appears to be limited - but improving and (4) we've played the entire season with a mis-firing/injured strike force and mis-firing/injured midfield.

And it would be stupid to underestimate the hangover from an acrimonious break up with our charismatic, personality-driven ex supremo who basically screwed up in the play-off semis.

But we're still, miraculously, not out of the play-offs and we have been introduced to Ince, Solly etc.

 

[father_and_son]

I wonder how much having a preseason to get through with players who maybe aren't sure about you and so maybe aren't sure about your approach counts against someone.

I mean, Moyes joined united and they are a team of players with premier league titled, champions league titled, FA cups, league cups, what has moyes done to be able to command their respect? With a pre-season that scepticism will take hold and be something that needs to be overcome.

Whereas Steven mcclaren has managed in the premier league and the international team, will be able to command the respect of a championship team immediately, and because he joined when the season was underway there were matches to prepare for, and no time to sit and question him.

Oscar would probably be in that moyes camp, players unsure of why they should just accept him and his ways. Poyet was a premier league player who knew English football, his way worked, why change it to this guy who only managed kids and some low ranking Israeli league?

I would think the fall out of gus going was probably more of an issue than the "lack" of preseason, because it fed into that scepticism.

This and the fact that a number of players will have been "pro" Poyet and a number will have been "anti" - Vicente's comments made it clear that Gus had a certain personality in the dressing room that you either got or didn't. This will have been massively unsettling for the players and the team as a whole as I imagine a number of friendships were strained and new ones formed as a result.

 

[fat old seagull]

Why do people want to give him more time ?

Maybe this......

Manchester United 1989
An early season run of six defeats and two draws in eight games, a banner declaring "Ta-Ra Fergie was displayed at Old Trafford, and many journalists and supporters called for Ferguson to be sacked. Ferguson later described December 1989 as "the darkest period [he had] ever suffered in the game", as United ended the decade just outside the relegation zone.

That said, I'm not a great fan of pretty, pretty football if you can't stick the ball in the net. I prefer to see a really solid defence with quick breaking forwards. I personally think it's only fair to give him until Christmas to see how next season is panning out.

 

[Mellotron]

Also, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't think fans would have been anywhere near as excited if we had appointed say, an old Manchester United youth team coach who had had one good season in somewhere like Switzerland or Scotland.

A lot of fans got over-excited by the Barcelona link.

And understandably so. He was linked with the ACTUAL Barcelona job not that long ago, remember.

 

[Tooting Gull]

I think others have nailed it. The OP is focusing on entirely the wrong thing.

The biggest challenge for Garcia was trying to knit together a club that had been left in turmoil by the Poyet sacking, everything that led up to it, the huge play-off disappointment and a bewildered dressing room. It took me three months to get over that Palace defeat, so Christ knows what it was like for some of the players who must have thought they could be headed for the Premier League.

And he had to do this with his English at that time still not great, and all the usual suspicions about a new coach after a very successful manager.

Given the injuries, which have been crippling compared to say Burnley who have been really lucky with key players staying fit until last week, he has done okay. I predicted eighth last summer. Next season is the big test, he has to be challenging.

 

[happypig]

At a time when a lot of transfers were starting to be arranged, players courted etc, we were leaderless. It was a pretty unusual situation too, having sacked the entire coaching team. Players know each other, they talk to each other, it's possible that some were approached but put off because of the instability (the last thing you want is to agree to join in principle then find the new boss has a playing style you don't fit in to).
Given that, and the injuries I think we're doing pretty well to still be in with a shout of the playoffs, albeit an outside chance; I would have happily settled for 10th this season.
It's a bit disappointing that we've lost three on the bounce and a bit concerning that we are struggling to score goals but I have faith in Tony Bloom and that he will do 100% what's right for the club.
I can foresee changes in the playing staff over the summer and we may need to bring in another striker or two, but permanently rather than half-hearted loanees.

 

[Black Rod]

The biggest problem for me was that, other than Upson, most of our first team transfer work wasn't done until the season had started. Agustien arrived a week before and the likes of Ward, Andrews etc didn't arrive until the season was underway. Would that have made a difference? Debatable.

I do agree though that perhaps the reason a lot of our fans are so disappointed with Oscar is because they got themselves so excited over his links with Barcelona and convinced themselves we'd be playing Barcelona style football and would walk the league. The hype about the guy was well over the top and he was never realistically going to live up to that. 9th in a stronger division this season with a squad that hasn't really been improved from last year is fine by me but because a lot of people convinced themselves we had the next Guardiola it doesn't seem good enough

 

[Tooting Gull]

At a time when a lot of transfers were starting to be arranged, players courted etc, we were leaderless. .

This is of course 100 per cent correct as well. Team strengthening really begins in April. We didn't start, at least not with Garcia, until almost July. That's not a few days behind, it is months behind even if Burke was doing some stuff on this without the new manager's blessing.

 

[Shatner's Bassoon]

Also, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't think fans would have been anywhere near as excited if we had appointed say, an old Manchester United youth team coach who had had one good season in somewhere like Switzerland or Scotland.

A lot of fans got over-excited by the Barcelona link.

The reason I was pleased is that the appointment showed a willingness to look beyond the usual suspects. I think you've got a fair point, and I remain to be completely convinced myself, but I think at the time that some excitement was justified.

 

[London Irish]

The biggest disruption is that: (1) he is a Barcelona disciple and it's still to be proven whether the Swansea model can be replicated i.e. can you pass your way out of the Championship, or how long will it take to build a squad that can pass its way out of the Championship; (2) he has never worked in the English game before; (3) his English appears to be limited - but improving and (4) we've played the entire season with a mis-firing/injured strike force and mis-firing/injured midfield.

And it would be stupid to underestimate the hangover from an acrimonious break up with our charismatic, personality-driven ex supremo who basically screwed up in the play-off semis.

But we're still, miraculously, not out of the play-offs and we have been introduced to Ince, Solly etc.

All of that of course ignores the fact that the squad has been schooled in a very rigorous discipline of passing football for seasons previously. The idea that Oscar was starting from scratch doesn't fly I'm afraid.

The question you have to honestly ask is has our passing game gone backwards or forwards under Oscar?

The only Gus trauma exists in the minds of fans, particularly those who idolised him before, it has never existed at the club or among the squad. Whether you agreed or not with the board getting rid of Gus, they acted decisively early enough to prevent any hangovers.

 

[London Irish]

This is of course 100 per cent correct as well. Team strengthening really begins in April. We didn't start, at least not with Garcia, until almost July. That's not a few days behind, it is months behind even if Burke was doing some stuff on this without the new manager's blessing.

Team strengthening begins in April? Who did we sign the previous April-May-June?

 

[Tooting Gull]

All of that of course ignores the fact that the squad has been schooled in a very rigorous discipline of passing football for seasons previously. The idea that Oscar was starting from scratch doesn't fly I'm afraid.

The question you have to honestly ask is has our passing game gone backwards or forwards under Oscar?

The only Gus trauma exists in the minds of fans, particularly those who idolised him before, it has never existed at the club or among the squad. Whether you agreed or not with the board getting rid of Gus, they acted decisively early enough to prevent any hangovers.

I'm sorry, that is nonsense. The idea he was starting from scratch flies with me because, err, he was. When he started the job.

If you want a definition of 'no hangover', look at Leicester after what happened to them in the play-offs last season.

How can you possibly claim there was no hangover among the players? Have you ever asked even one of them if that was the case?

We had one, it is understandable given the way Gus dominated the landscape at the club and I don't even blame the players, but the results early on proved that.

The credit Garcia gets is for dealing with it and minimising it.