[Albion] How Brighton became the Premier League’s leading talent factory (TheAthletic)

[Terry Butcher Tribute Act]

Not relative to the rest of the division, which was the genesis of the article

Well yeah I take your point but that doesn't really factor in all the clubs bringing through players and selling them on for bigger and better things. Are we better at bringing players through than Saints, because Dunk and March are playing for us whereas Bale and Walcott are at Spurs and Everton?

I don't known the answer but that would be a more interesting comparison of how many Premier League players are coming through academies imho.



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[Change at Barnham]

Trying to work out if the OP is on a windup about Naylor and his Athletic articles. It's just more lip service to the club isn't it?

Andy Naylor is no wordsmith and there are many writers on The Athletic who are better. In my opinion he relies too much on padding out his articles with often obvious statistics.
However, more recently he's been using interviews with people connected to the club to share with supporters previously untold views of what is happening. This piece is largely based on an article with John Morling, Brighton’s academy manager.
There have been previous in-depth articles with David Weir, Leo Ostigard, Glenn Murray and a great piece about how Brighton landed Moises Caicedo.

Yes, it is Albion focused but it's coverage about our club that I haven't been able to find anywhere else, certainly not in the local press.

Naylor may not be the greatest writer, but along with the excellent Albion Analytics he's a better source of written Albion content than I can find elsewhere.

 

[chaileyjem]

Well yeah I take your point but that doesn't really factor in all the clubs bringing through players and selling them on for bigger and better things. Are we better at bringing players through than Saints, because Dunk and March are playing for us whereas Bale and Walcott are at Spurs and Everton?

I don't known the answer but that would be a more interesting comparison of how many Premier League players are coming through academies imho.

Thankfully Bloom has kept hold of Dunk and White in recent seasons - perhaps that might change this summer and that final metric - bringing through players that bring you a healthy profit will start to be realised. But this nit pitcking about the success of how Albion use the loan market to develop players, hiring a manager who's happy to pick young talent, and the overall health of the academy - self evident however you measure it (minutes for academy players, age of squad/game time, prospects out on loan, success of u18 and u23 squads)- is a tad obtuse. - so what if Solly March and Lewis Dunk have played for the Albion for years as if that discounts everything else.

 

[Stat Brother]

Well yeah I take your point but that doesn't really factor in all the clubs bringing through players and selling them on for bigger and better things. Are we better at bringing players through than Saints, because Dunk and March are playing for us whereas Bale and Walcott are at Spurs and Everton?

I don't known the answer but that would be a more interesting comparison of how many Premier League players are coming through academies imho.



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The comparison will (hopefully) work brilliantly when the direct line can be drawn from Lancing to the first team and beyond.

The White Link or Sanchez Subway

At the moment the numbers are padded by 2 from the Witness Protection Programme ©Bry and other clubs hard work, which makes for a nice story but not THE story, yet.

 

[Beanstalk]

Trying to work out if the OP is on a windup about Naylor and his Athletic articles. It's just more lip service to the club isn't it?

What it doesn't say is that Connolly has had an awful season, Alzate hasn't kicked on from his debut season and has fallen down the pecking order, Dunk (who has been part of the side for the last decade) and March came through before Lancing opened.

The real story is the wonderful scouting of White and Sanchez and others, combined with the successful use of the loan market to give them experience. And Potter’s willingness to put them in the team which is commendable too.

There's some great stuff on the Athletic but Naylor's writing, nearly 2 years later, is still more suited to the local paper imho
Or even the club website as let's face it, most of what he writes reads as if he's on Barber's payroll.

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Connolly has just turned 21, he's a current full international and has 5 Premier League goals to his name already. He's got a long way to go but I can't think of any Brighton striker to have achieved what Aaron has at that age. He's a huge success so far, and if his growth continues, he will be a wonderful product of our successful academy. Alzate is similar, only 22, scored the winner against Liverpool at Anfield, has 31 Premier League games to his name despite having only played at League Two level previous to this and is now a full Colombian international. That's a success story. Dunk and March have moved on to heights I don't think anyone would have predicted whilst they were at the top of the hill sharing a training ground with the University of Sussex students. They have benefited from Lancing and us becoming more and more progressive as a club immeasurably.

I do however agree re: Naylor and the Athletic, though think it's a tad harsh on Barber! I asked Paul Hayward about what it is like reporting on the Albion at a SoL event recently and he said that it was a frustrating experience but the sign of a well run club (poorly run clubs have leaks all over the gaff). Naylor has to wheel out a thousand word piece every two days and doesn't have any insider knowledge any more. Of course a lot of it is therefore superficial news (as the information he is working with is) and you are not wrong in saying that Naylor relies quite heavily on his previous style as an Argus reporter which comparatively is lacking to some of the heavy hitters the Athletic have employed. I think that he's fine as long as he's not the only one covering us (of which he is). Really would love it if they did a similar model to the one Palace have (Matt Woosnam as the on-the-ground reporter with Dominic Fifield writing often superb long-form). We might have to wait until Hayward has finished his book until something like that happens.

As is always the case, feel free to PM me for a month pass to the Athletic if you want to read this article.

 

[dazzer6666]

Well yeah I take your point but that doesn't really factor in all the clubs bringing through players and selling them on for bigger and better things. Are we better at bringing players through than Saints, because Dunk and March are playing for us whereas Bale and Walcott are at Spurs and Everton?

I don't known the answer but that would be a more interesting comparison of how many Premier League players are coming through academies imho.



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....but we started later than Saints.......?

I don't get the negativity and incessant need to pick holes in what is essentially a hugely positive direction of travel. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

 

[Terry Butcher Tribute Act]

Sorry, didn't mean to start a big debate. I'll shut up now. I probably could have summed this up by saying the academy has a lot of potential but a long way to go yet (with an awful lot of prospects to work with)

Some good responses above. Personally I just like seeing a bit more balance in articles than relentless gushing praise of everything BHA related. Probably comes from years of pessimism!


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[bhafc99]

....but we started later than Saints.......?

I don't get the negativity and incessant need to pick holes in what is essentially a hugely positive direction of travel. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

And Walcott and Bale left Saints in 2006 and 2007 respectively, so are hardly topical comparisons.


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[Guinness Boy]

Thankfully Bloom has kept hold of Dunk and White in recent seasons - perhaps that might change this summer and that final metric - bringing through players that bring you a healthy profit will start to be realised. But this nit pitcking about the success of how Albion use the loan market to develop players, hiring a manager who's happy to pick young talent, and the overall health of the academy - self evident however you measure it (minutes for academy players, age of squad/game time, prospects out on loan, success of u18 and u23 squads)- is a tad obtuse. - so what if Solly March and Lewis Dunk have played for the Albion for years as if that discounts everything else.

Does it make a difference to the success of the club? Probably not. We have been very pro-active in our efforts to keep Dunk, White and March and they have all had a great season (Solly up until the injury).

Does it make a difference to the data and headline used in the quoted article? Yes. Yes it does.

 

[Badger Boy]

Sorry, didn't mean to start a big debate. I'll shut up now. I probably could have summed this up by saying the academy has a lot of potential but a long way to go yet (with an awful lot of prospects to work with)

Some good responses above. Personally I just like seeing a bit more balance in articles than relentless gushing praise of everything BHA related. Probably comes from years of pessimism!


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People will always read posts in their own context. Personally, I don't think your comments were particularly negative or harsh on anyone. The reality is the reality. We're definitely getting players coming through the academy which is excellent news for the financial future and stability of the squad going forward. We knew it would take many years to get the benefits of the academy and realistically we're probably ahead of where we expected to be at this point because of the progression of the club and the financial resources to snap up the best available young players.

I'm confident there are a number of younger players in the academy at under-18 level who keep the flow of players going. It's very difficult for any young player to develop into a Premier League player without the benefit of a loan to the football league. John Terry had a loan spell at Forest, Frank Lampard was at Swansea for a spell. Kane was farmed out to several clubs who weren't all that impressed by him. The Rooney's and the Gerrard's are the exception rather than the rule.

I said in the summer that I felt Aaron Connolly would benefit from a season in the Championship to play regular football and develop his all round game. That didn't happen for whatever reason and his lack of minutes this season can't be helping him. I think he's a good young player but I'm not convinced he's a Premier League player and won't be if he doesn't get a chance to play regular game time. Which he won't get here, because he's not up to the standard.

 

[chaileyjem]

Does it make a difference to the data and headline used in the quoted article? Yes. Yes it does.

Agreed that there's debate to be had about Albion being the leading "talent factory" in the EPL. An overcooked headline in my view and that one data point doesn't completely make the case.
But the article itself is of course more nuanced and some of the posts on this thread seem oblivious to the progress the club have made and really don't stand up (Connolly and Alzate are no longer decent young prospects, Dunk and March should be discounted and haven't benefited from the overall set up, other clubs have developed the players - ie: loans, we haven't sold anyone yet for £30m)

 

[vagabond]

I said in the summer that I felt Aaron Connolly would benefit from a season in the Championship to play regular football and develop his all round game. That didn't happen for whatever reason and his lack of minutes this season can't be helping him. I think he's a good young player but I'm not convinced he's a Premier League player and won't be if he doesn't get a chance to play regular game time. Which he won't get here, because he's not up to the standard.

This is a fair comment, it is possible Connolly was fast tracked a little bit too soon. I think we all know those 2 goals against Spurs made it very difficult to drop him down a division to learn his trade. You make a great point about Kane, I remember him slogging around the Championship for a while, with not too much fanfare (and not being super impressive either if I recall), but he came back to the Premier League, mentally hardened, physically tougher and well prepared to adapt. He’s now gone on to be an elite player in this league. Having a couple of solid Championship campaigns may do wonders for Connolly.

The club are still implementing this pathway from academy to the first team with Ashworth and Potter, so I’m sure there’s lessons learned and improvements to be made on all sides.

 

[Ratso2005]

Naylor has form for the headline having no relevance to the story.

Journalists don't usually write their own headlines, that's more commonly the remit of subeditors.

 

[Stat Brother]

Does it make a difference to the success of the club? Probably not. We have been very pro-active in our efforts to keep Dunk, White and March and they have all had a great season (Solly up until the injury).

Does it make a difference to the data and headline used in the quoted article? Yes. Yes it does.

Careful now.

Those opinions will have you labelled as constantly looking for a negative angle - despite all of the other possitivity you direct towards the club, set up, manager and players.

 

[Badger Boy]

This is a fair comment, it is possible Connolly was fast tracked a little bit too soon. I think we all know those 2 goals against Spurs made it very difficult to drop him down a division to learn his trade. You make a great point about Kane, I remember him slogging around the Championship for a while, with not too much fanfare (and not being super impressive either if I recall), but he came back to the Premier League, mentally hardened, physically tougher and well prepared to adapt. Having a couple of solid Championship campaigns may do wonders for Connolly.

The club are still implementing this pathway from academy to the first team with Ashworth and Potter, so I’m sure there’s lessons learned and improvements to be made on all sides.

In that legendary play-off match which Knockaert starred in with his dive and subsequent penalty miss and Deeney winner, Leicester had Kane, Vardy and Drinkwater sat on the bench. Amazing to think it was only a few years between that day and the Leicester Premier League win and Kane probably going on to break Shearer's PL goals record.

Connolly was absolutely untouchable after the Spurs game. He had one cleared off the line at Newcastle the game before (I think) and was looking sharp. I think he's gone off the boil a little bit, whether it's because of being found a bit or a lack of game time or anything else - he's not performed at the same level. I'm not writing him off, he could still prove himself to be a top level player but he's not there at the moment and for me he needs to get regular games. Which won't happen at this level, but I doubt there would be a shortage of options of a Championship loan.

 

[blue-shifted]

re Alzate - Personally I think it would have been remarkable had he excelled at LWB, when he's never played there for any youth or other teams. He'll have been disappointed to have fallen behind Biss, Gross, MacAllister, Lallana, White and Moder in the fight for a central midfield berth. I wonder if he will move on in the summer. Caicedo is being feted as the next big thing and Karbownik may end up there as well.

Conolly - Agree about his age. Only the exceptional are banging them in at that age. Mostly a striker won't really have learned his trade at top level until 25 or so. I understand he doesn't want to drop a level. Personally I think we should be looking abroad for a loan. A mid Bundesliga or Serie A side would be the a good fit at the moment. I don't think we should sell though. Clearly a decent player there in there. Possibly he has decided his future lay elsewhere.

 

[blue-shifted]

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That's incredible, but it just shows how late strikers mature.

Kane would have been around the age Connolly is now and couldn't get a game at a level lower in a massive match. Vardy 6 years older and yet to truly blossom

 

[Justice]

Can anyone see a championship club paying Connolly’s wages and a loan fee (possibly) for what might be little return? It might be a good move for a championship side but also a risky one.

 

[Braggfan]

Please correct me if I’m wrong with my dates, but my understanding is that youth football in the UK changed in 2013/14, so that under 9s and under 10s played 7v7 and u11s played 9v9.
This was a major rethinking of the way kids are taught football. With the idea being that kids would get more time on the ball, and therefore be able to develop more technical skills.
But as that was 8 years ago, a kid playing u11’s back then will only be 18 or 19 now. I would say that so far we haven’t really seen the main benefit of those changes.

Timeline wise the kids who were 8 back in 2013 who started playing 7v7, would only 16 or 17 now, so really I think it could still be another 5 years before we start seeing the real impact of those coaching changes.

The fact is the Albion have an academy that has already started producing talent, but we’ve only really started to scratch the surface of it. As more and more of the kids who have been brought up in the new coaching systems come through, I think we’ll see an increase in the talent the club produces.

 

[Stat Brother]

The fact is the Albion have an academy that has already started producing talent, but we’ve only really started to scratch the surface of it. As more and more of the kids who have been brought up in the new coaching systems come through, I think we’ll see an increase in the talent the club produces.

One would hope so.

ATM those 'coming through the academy' are outnumbered by the young player bought in - (I feel the need to say again, for fear of the Criticism Police) because that's how it should be right now through the development cycle.

White and Sanchez came in as 15 (?) year olds while the paint was still wet on the walls.
Lavante and Southampton had done a lot of work with them, work that at the same time was finally being invested with Albion kids considerably younger.

So it shows the pathway is there and we've got to feel confident about the future.



Worryingly a little too confident.
I still can't get my head around being so casual about 'yeah let's cash in on Bissouma - the scouting and youth set up can cover him'.

A generational talent I've waited 45 years to see in The Stripes and I'm already moving onto the next one up.