[Football] How big a gulf in class is there between the top championship sides and the PL also-rans?

[Buzzer]

I've been reading a lot of early season reviews of Brighton's overall performance in the PL and a lot of them make reference to the huge step up that Brighton needed to make from the Championship to the PL. But looking at the clubs who have been promoted into the PL for the first time in ages over the last few seasons, they've all faired quite well. From the 14/15 Championship. B'muff and Watford are still in the PL and from last season Hudds and Brighton are making a good go of it so far. (I've excluded the likes of Burnley, Boro, Hull, Derby, Norwich, Newcastle as all have featured in the PL fairly recently) and all those sides have done very well to keep a backbone of players from their Championship sides. There doesn't seem to be many cases of a one-off side going up for the first time and then going straight back down.

And likewise when you look at how recently relegated Premier League sides have faired in the Championship, it doesn't suggest that they are necessarily a whole lot better. Even accounting for complacency, a dysfunctional squad and star players leaving, the Championship is littered with sides that thought they would go straight back up again but haven't.

Personally, I think far more is made of this gap than really exists. The biggest differences are that the top PL sides are clearly much, much better than the also-rans whereas any team from 18 in the Championship have a good chance of a top 6 finish and the Championship sides are all of a much more equivalent size. The media attention surrounding the PL is 100 times more than the Championship and this is one of the reasons why so much ignorance about who plays in the Championship and the quality of football is expressed by the pundits and PL fans - and these are the people who talk about this mythical gulf in class.

It's a shame that there's not a more equitable share of money going into the Championship because I bloody love that league. I think it's the most competitive top league in Europe.

 

[The Large One]

There is a difference, though we have made a step up anyway.

Our concentrations levels are, for the most part, for more intense, but then they have to be. Look at what happened when we played at Bournemouth - took the lead, went to sleep. We got away with that in the Championship - not up here we haven't.

Look at the game v WBA. Brilliant for 70mins, yet we looked dead on our feet for the rest of the game, and WBA unsurprisingly scored, but thankfully we were already three up by that time.

I'll take your phrase and twist it. Outside of the top six, the Premier League is very competitive, and competition to obtain the top spot outside of those is fierce. Sadly though, while 7th is a 'best of the rest' achievement, you win f*ck all for 7th.

 

[el punal]

Sadly though, while 7th is a 'best of the rest' achievement, you win f*ck all for 7th.

Sadly though for most clubs, although I did find it rather entertaining that Reading fans celebrated that position a few seasons back.

 

[studio150]

There is a difference facing the teams that are promoted into the PL.

I see this as the depth of the first team squad. While if promoted teams can put their starting eleven on the pitch they are mainly competitive against teams outside of the top 6. However when injuries, suspensions or tiredness are present and squad players need to play, particularly if more than one is drafted in, the promoted teams tend to be less competitive.

Providing the promoted teams can stay in the PL. they are able to increase the depth of their squad as they stay in the division.

 

[sir albion]

I'd say very little indeed between half the prem and maybe 8 championship sides....Getting closer every year

 

[Napper]

Look how much promoted teams spend to be competitive .

Even we've spent 40m

Without investment , every promoted side would come down easily .

 

[Bwian]

Sadly though for most clubs, although I did find it rather entertaining that Reading fans celebrated that position a few seasons back.

And we wouldn't do the same?

 

[larus]

I’d agree with [MENTION=5200]Buzzer[/MENTION] that, apart from the Big Six, there’s probably not too much of a gap between the best teams of the championship and the rest of the PL.

I’ve often viewed the PL as almost 3 mini leagues (most seasons). The top 5/6/7, the middle group and then the teams who are fighting relegation. I’ve thought of Southampton and Everton as candidates for the middle group, with the occasional season where they may challenge for a European spot.

So, genuine question (and not trying to walk before we can run). Does anyone think we have the ability to become one of the teams who would be viewed as being in the middle group by other fans? I know we aren’t a big draw yet for players, but I do think we are going about things in a very professional way. The facilities we have and the environment within the club feel like it’s vert well run, with minimal internal politics. I think the off-field crap impacts some of the other clubs, even when they throw money at the playing side.

I can see us getting to this level, as the stability created by TB/PB/CH will make us a good club to be at. I know money is important to players, but the environment will also play a part.

 

[Hastings gull]

I’d agree with [MENTION=5200]Buzzer[/MENTION] that, apart from the Big Six, there’s probably not too much of a gap between the best teams of the championship and the rest of the PL.

I’ve often viewed the PL as almost 3 mini leagues (most seasons). The top 5/6/7, the middle group and then the teams who are fighting relegation. I’ve thought of Southampton and Everton as candidates for the middle group, with the occasional season where they may challenge for a European spot.

So, genuine question (and not trying to walk before we can run). Does anyone think we have the ability to become one of the teams who would be viewed as being in the middle group by other fans? I know we aren’t a big draw yet for players, but I do think we are going about things in a very professional way. The facilities we have and the environment within the club feel like it’s vert well run, with minimal internal politics. I think the off-field crap impacts some of the other clubs, even when they throw money at the playing side.

I can see us getting to this level, as the stability created by TB/PB/CH will make us a good club to be at. I know money is important to players, but the environment will also play a part.

Yes, I tend to agree. A couple of seasons ago, I went on the Stadium tour, and then after that Alan Mullery talked to the assembled throng. He was adamant that if the club were to achieve PL status, this club would stay up and thrive. Of course, he is a club employee, and so you might think he would say that, wouldn't he? but it was said with such conviction that I was impressed then and have not forgotten it. Yes, I think we have the potential to be in that middle group, given good continued leadership, and all the other ingredients that make for success.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I've been reading a lot of early season reviews of Brighton's overall performance in the PL and a lot of them make reference to the huge step up that Brighton needed to make from the Championship to the PL. But looking at the clubs who have been promoted into the PL for the first time in ages over the last few seasons, they've all faired quite well. From the 14/15 Championship. B'muff and Watford are still in the PL and from last season Hudds and Brighton are making a good go of it so far. (I've excluded the likes of Burnley, Boro, Hull, Derby, Norwich, Newcastle as all have featured in the PL fairly recently) and all those sides have done very well to keep a backbone of players from their Championship sides. There doesn't seem to be many cases of a one-off side going up for the first time and then going straight back down.

And likewise when you look at how recently relegated Premier League sides have faired in the Championship, it doesn't suggest that they are necessarily a whole lot better. Even accounting for complacency, a dysfunctional squad and star players leaving, the Championship is littered with sides that thought they would go straight back up again but haven't.

Personally, I think far more is made of this gap than really exists. The biggest differences are that the top PL sides are clearly much, much better than the also-rans whereas any team from 18 in the Championship have a good chance of a top 6 finish and the Championship sides are all of a much more equivalent size. The media attention surrounding the PL is 100 times more than the Championship and this is one of the reasons why so much ignorance about who plays in the Championship and the quality of football is expressed by the pundits and PL fans - and these are the people who talk about this mythical gulf in class.

It's a shame that there's not a more equitable share of money going into the Championship because I bloody love that league. I think it's the most competitive top league in Europe.

Spot on, as so very often are your posts. If I have any quibble at all it is that part of the reason you love the Championship (as do I) is because it is competitive and exciting. But part of that is due to the prospect of the step up (to more income and a bit more 'edge'). That is predicated by the 'unfair' share of the money. I use the inverted commas because I am not sure it reflects anything more than the marketability worldwide of the PL and the intrest and money it generates, which arguably is fair.

My view is the Championship is a lot better than it was 10 or 20 years ago, and it has a degree of stability (albeit this of course does not discount the possibility of badly run clubs doing a Cardiff).

I do look a little askance at the top 6, especially the Arse with their cold silent stadium, but in reality they have no more die hard supporters than we do, give or take, and at least ours aren't diluted out completely by the 'soccer' tourists and weirdos who regard the wealth and 'bigness' of 'their' club as a reflection of their own cachet and prestige as human beings (with 10 fold more of the tossers 'supporting' via the tellybox).

Cheers, mon vieux.

 

[Eeyore]

I’d agree with [MENTION=5200]Buzzer[/MENTION] that, apart from the Big Six, there’s probably not too much of a gap between the best teams of the championship and the rest of the PL.

I’ve often viewed the PL as almost 3 mini leagues (most seasons). The top 5/6/7, the middle group and then the teams who are fighting relegation. I’ve thought of Southampton and Everton as candidates for the middle group, with the occasional season where they may challenge for a European spot.

So, genuine question (and not trying to walk before we can run). Does anyone think we have the ability to become one of the teams who would be viewed as being in the middle group by other fans? I know we aren’t a big draw yet for players, but I do think we are going about things in a very professional way. The facilities we have and the environment within the club feel like it’s vert well run, with minimal internal politics. I think the off-field crap impacts some of the other clubs, even when they throw money at the playing side.

I can see us getting to this level, as the stability created by TB/PB/CH will make us a good club to be at. I know money is important to players, but the environment will also play a part.

I think this year perhaps suggests that Division One is more two leagues. The top six and the rest. I only half joked recently that we are currently second.

 

[Bozza]

So, genuine question (and not trying to walk before we can run). Does anyone think we have the ability to become one of the teams who would be viewed as being in the middle group by other fans?

Is there a middle group any more?

Last season the middle group was just Everton:

Top 2: 86-93 points
3rd-6th: 69-78 points
Everton: 61 points
8th-17th: 40-46 points
Relegated: 24-34 points

 

[Wardy's twin]

Sadly though for most clubs, although I did find it rather entertaining that Reading fans celebrated that position a few seasons back.

I'll take 7th this year, next year and each year ever after

 

[Wardy's twin]

Look how much promoted teams spend to be competitive .

Even we've spent 40m

Without investment , every promoted side would come down easily .

i think it is more than just investment, a lot of clubs spend but still go down. to me it is more about drive, ambition, teamwork and wanting to do well not just sitting on your laurels. The manager will be a big influence on the factors. Some investment is needed but it has to be the correct investment i.e. people who fit in rather than big names that really don't care.

 

[el punal]

And we wouldn't do the same?

Humour dear boy! Don't you remember the pitch invasion by the Reading fans when they thought they had the final play-off spot back in 2014, only to be scuppered by Leo's injury time winner at Forest.

Of course if we ended up 7th in the PREMIER League I would be doing imaginary cart wheels in celebration. Now that would be justified!

 

[el punal]

I'll take 7th this year, next year and each year ever after

I was referring to their glorious 7th place in the Championship in 2014!

 

[larus]

Is there a middle group any more?

Last season the middle group was just Everton:

Top 2: 86-93 points
3rd-6th: 69-78 points
Everton: 61 points
8th-17th: 40-46 points
Relegated: 24-34 points

Maybe, but it’s probably too much to call one season a pattern. Maybe if this proves to be the new norm, then it could be. If that happens, then a sad day for the PL IMO.

 

[Wardy's twin]

I was referring to their glorious 7th place in the Championship in 2014!

comes of not reading the whole thread....now that won't do...

 

[el punal]

comes of not reading the whole thread....now that won't do...

 

[drew]

I'll take 7th this year, next year and each year ever after

How dull would that eventually become!