[Finance] Housing Market

[Live by the sea]

Apologies I was looking at the top 1% in New York Which is around : $777,126 according to CNBC & I tried to convert it out in £ .

I didn’t realise there was such a difference between here in the UK & my city back home . Gosh !

 

[Lower West Stander]

The top 2% of earners are in £250,000 plus , the top 1% £400,000 plus

The top 1% are usually medical consultants , senior tech people , people running very successful businesses etc . The Top 2% often includes tradesman that don’t have degrees but have qualified as plumbers or electricians or mechanics etc . Tradesman up to the early 1970’’s were considered 2 a penny and didn’t earn large sums but times I guess have changed .

Anyway my point is if you are in the top 2% you should qualify for a mortgage of at least £750,000 I would have thought !

Whilst I agree with your last point - you've made a key omission in your first paragraph. Top earners work in the City and there is now less need for them to be there 5 days a week. Many I know (including me tbf) work from second properties across Friday to Monday. South coast properties are a big part of this. There is now far more acceptance of working from home and not having to be in the office all the time. If you did decide to cash in on London prices, its also far more palatable to commute 2 or 3 days for 90 mins, than all 5.....

 

[zefarelly]

I worked with a tight-fisted older bachelor who bought a very large bungalow (not run down) near Woodland Drive in 1995 for about £100k.

When I got back on the housing ladder in 1999, our £100k only bought a small Bovis home (we were the second owners) in Portslade. The first owners bought it from Bovis in 1995 for £65k.

Mrs.W bought a tiny 2 bed terrace house in the Southern Cross area for £45k in 1996, in 2002 they were selling for £135k, now £350k!!!

looks like it did start kicking off a bit post 97. after a year out being, or trying to be a rock star I was trying to salvage some semblance of career/income coupled with a needy girlfriend/student in London so probably didn't notice!


https://landregistry.data.gov.uk/ap...d/region/united-kingdom&to=2020-02-01&lang=en

 

[Weststander]

looks like it did start kicking off a bit post 97. after a year out being, or trying to be a rock star I was trying to salvage some semblance of career/income coupled with a needy girlfriend/student in London so probably didn't notice!


https://landregistry.data.gov.uk/ap...d/region/united-kingdom&to=2020-02-01&lang=en

I was slow to notice, it was when only looking back when we were buying. Too interested in holidays and going out/meals out.

Whereas my "look after the pennies and the pounds look after themselves" colleague got asset rich and was very proud of himself

 

[swindonseagull]

I was slow to notice, it was when only looking back when we were buying. Too interested in holidays and going out/meals out.

Whereas my "look after the pennies and the pounds look after themselves" colleague got asset rich and was very proud of himself

But has he enjoyed life without travel and socialising?

 

[Machiavelli]

looks like it did start kicking off a bit post 97. after a year out being, or trying to be a rock star I was trying to salvage some semblance of career/income coupled with a needy girlfriend/student in London so probably didn't notice!


https://landregistry.data.gov.uk/ap...d/region/united-kingdom&to=2020-02-01&lang=en

I bought in London in 97 and sold for 2.25x asking price in 02. My partner also bought in London in 94, and sold 4x in 02, but was in Hackney which was really cheap post-early 90s property crash (which IIRC was a far bigger correction than 08).

 

[Weststander]

But has he enjoyed life without travel and socialising?

Last time I worked with him, not really.

Spent his time in a weird prefect and fag relationship with the boss, bullied one day, best mates the next. Spending half the day scheming against co-workers. 60 year old blokes, living the life .

 

[southstandandy]

Did you not get stung for capital gains tax if you weren’t living in the house?

Reason I’m interested is that we have given our property to our daughter. She and my son-in-law are going to be demolishing the existing house and build a new one for themselves and the two boys - my wife and I are going to live in a new “granny” annexe.

We have been advised though that the 7 year period for inheritance tax exemption won’t start until they move in or we start paying a market rent, (stuff that!). Even if we did pay rent and survived the 7 years and thus avoided inheritance tax they would be liable for CGT if they didn’t live here as well and sold the property when we died.

No. Because early on she was diagnosed with parkinsons so I used to spend half the week there assisting her so registered there for Council Tax etc as her primary carer. We continued this pattern for about 8 years as I was spending 4 nights a week there and carers helped her during the other three.

 

[zefarelly]

I was slow to notice, it was when only looking back when we were buying. Too interested in holidays and going out/meals out.

Whereas my "look after the pennies and the pounds look after themselves" colleague got asset rich and was very proud of himself

Lifestyle choices.

we never and still haven't wasted/invested in holidays and bling, but I guess we're asset rich . . . . even a few lock ups we bought for storage/work have proved a good investment. although from a very personal point of view it was always a case of cheaper than renting!

 

[Weststander]

Lifestyle choices.

we never and still haven't wasted/invested in holidays and bling, but I guess we're asset rich . . . . even a few lock ups we bought for storage/work have proved a good investment. although from a very personal point of view it was always a case of cheaper than renting!

Going by your positive nsc persona, I'd hazard a guess that you enjoy life?

It can be small things, some people love just coffees out with the partner, walks, whatever makes folk happy.

I love skiing, but hamstrung by no alpine resorts in SE England, so I need to spend to satisfy my interest.

 

[Stat Brother]

What are you seeing on the front line? I'm hearing from estate agents there is still a supply-demand imbalance with not enough property for sale to satisfy demand.

Nut and shell.

Although what was happening to me:-

- Asking price doesn't get you in the door
- X k over 'buys' the property.
- 1 month later agent on the phone asking if I'm still interested as the buyer has fallen through.

There just wasn't a choice in buying, despite sale agreed and a mahoosive down payment, due to the frankly ridiculous price the people had to pay for Stat Towers I.


Scholars of my work will know I've just bought a shitshow of a house.

First one in.
Fully asking price offered and accepted.
I just couldn't let anyone else look at it.

It was the cheapest of its kind on the market (still far too expensive) despite being run down.
Had I given myself some thinking time, I am 100% sure the same house would have cost me £10k more.
Due to the interest it would have generated over that upcoming weekend.


I've now found an angry looking crack a wall, so far from out of the woods yet. .

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

With the thread on the rich getting richer I thought I would repost my predictions on asset prices from 2 years ago.
If I'd have used "long term elevated inflation" rather than hyperinflation I'd be a f****** genius.

I stand by my prediction - the British (and global) economy is not currently in recession. The current inflation is a reflection of the massive money pumped into the global economy by world central banks in order to stave off collapse because of the pandemic. At a certain point in time this 'quantitive easing' will stop and the subsequent recession is still far more likely to be deflationary in character rather than inflationary (and far more difficult to resolve as a result).

 

[Wrong-Direction]

If anyone knows of any flats within a 5 mile radius of Brighton that need doing up around the 275k mark let me know..

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[Eric the meek]

Nut and shell.

Although what was happening to me:-

- Asking price doesn't get you in the door
- X k over 'buys' the property.
- 1 month later agent on the phone asking if I'm still interested as the buyer has fallen through.

There just wasn't a choice in buying, despite sale agreed and a mahoosive down payment, due to the frankly ridiculous price the people had to pay for Stat Towers I.


Scholars of my work will know I've just bought a shitshow of a house.

First one in.
Fully asking price offered and accepted.
I just couldn't let anyone else look at it.

It was the cheapest of its kind on the market (still far too expensive) despite being run down.
Had I given myself some thinking time, I am 100% sure the same house would have cost me £10k more.
Due to the interest it would have generated over that upcoming weekend.


I've now found an angry looking crack a wall, so far from out of the woods yet. .

I can't really figure out why so little is coming onto the market, unless it just doesn't exist in the first place. You'll still get the 3 Ds - death, divorce, debt, providing a steady stream of property onto the sales market, but many of these are snapped up by estate agents phoning around their list of buyers and achieving an instant sale that way. The less time they spend on the sale, the more time they have to spend on getting other sellers to sign up.

It sounds very much as though you did right to jump in quickly. However, it might be worth asking the estate agent why the first buyer fell through.

Sorry to hear about the crack. I assume you didn't get a survey done. But it may not be the bad news that you fear and/or may not cost anything like what you think.

Two years ago, while replacing my roof, my builder asked me to come and have a look at something. He showed me the lintel above my garage door had split, and 4-5 courses of brickwork above were wobbling horribly with no mortar. He said he would mortar them all in for half a day's work - £100.

Do you know a friendly builder? Preferably one in his 50s, so he's got plenty of experience of seeing those kinds of cracks? You could ask his opinion. Good luck.

 

[Stat Brother]

I can't really figure out why so little is coming onto the market, unless it just doesn't exist in the first place. You'll still get the 3 Ds - death, divorce, debt, providing a steady stream of property onto the sales market, but many of these are snapped up by estate agents phoning around their list of buyers and achieving an instant sale that way. The less time they spend on the sale, the more time they have to spend on getting other sellers to sign up.

It sounds very much as though you did right to jump in quickly. However, it might be worth asking the estate agent why the first buyer fell through.

Sorry to hear about the crack. I assume you didn't get a survey done. But it may not be the bad news that you fear and/or may not cost anything like what you think.

Two years ago, while replacing my roof, my builder asked me to come and have a look at something. He showed me the lintel above my garage door had split, and 4-5 courses of brickwork above were wobbling horribly with no mortar. He said he would mortar them all in for half a day's work - £100.

Do you know a friendly builder? Preferably one in his 50s, so he's got plenty of experience of seeing those kinds of cracks? You could ask his opinion. Good luck.

Fingers crossed I have time.

So going to fill and buff it up nice tomorrow then watch it like a hawk until such time as I can hopefully relax.

 

[dazzer6666]

The top 2% of earners are in £250,000 plus , the top 1% £400,000 plus

The top 1% are usually medical consultants , senior tech people , people running very successful businesses etc . The Top 2% often includes tradesman that don’t have degrees but have qualified as plumbers or electricians or mechanics etc . Tradesman up to the early 1970’’s were considered 2 a penny and didn’t earn large sums but times I guess have changed .

Anyway my point is if you are in the top 2% you should qualify for a mortgage of at least £750,000 I would have thought !

Therein lies the ‘problem’ for high earners though and seen so very many colleagues do this though…….if you’re on the decent six figure salary you can indeed get a £750k mortgage and a lovely big house, but you’re then effectively tied into the rate race for many more years. You’re more likely to be in that wage bracket towards the middle/end of your career so taking out a big mortgage at that point doesn’t always appeal……living more modestly (but still very comfortably) and retiring early - or at least having the option to do so - is becoming increasingly common.

Oh, and as for US salaries, in my old firm they were eye-watering, along with Hong Kong.

 

[usernamed]

I can't really figure out why so little is coming onto the market, unless it just doesn't exist in the first place.

If a property portfolio is owned by a company, and that company overextends itself and runs into trouble, or the portfolio owners wish to cash in their chips, the company directors will look to sell assets to repair their balance sheet/exit from their positions.

Very few private individuals are looking to buy 10 or 20 properties at a time, and so these properties bypass the Rightmove/Zoopla portals and are sold business to business, hence Joe Public doesn’t get a look in.

There’s only a finite housing stock in the U.K., and these transactions diminish the stock available for general sale. This is one of the issues of treating housing as an asset class. Sharks swallow the minnows, whales swallow the sharks.


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[Half Time Pies]

I can't really figure out why so little is coming onto the market, unless it just doesn't exist in the first place. You'll still get the 3 Ds - death, divorce, debt, providing a steady stream of property onto the sales market, but many of these are snapped up by estate agents phoning around their list of buyers and achieving an instant sale that way. The less time they spend on the sale, the more time they have to spend on getting other sellers to sign up.

It sounds very much as though you did right to jump in quickly. However, it might be worth asking the estate agent why the first buyer fell through.

Sorry to hear about the crack. I assume you didn't get a survey done. But it may not be the bad news that you fear and/or may not cost anything like what you think.

Two years ago, while replacing my roof, my builder asked me to come and have a look at something. He showed me the lintel above my garage door had split, and 4-5 courses of brickwork above were wobbling horribly with no mortar. He said he would mortar them all in for half a day's work - £100.

Do you know a friendly builder? Preferably one in his 50s, so he's got plenty of experience of seeing those kinds of cracks? You could ask his opinion. Good luck.

Debt isn't really a problem due to low interest rates and the government support during the pandemic. In many instances people who were on furlough were better off due to a reduction in outgoings. I would imagine in such a buoyant market that a lot of the properties that come available following a death will be snapped up by property developers looking to do them up and sell them on for a profit.

With house prices so high and debt payments so low a lot of people in recent years have chosen to stay put and make improvements to their existing properties. I was looking prior to the pandemic and there was very little property available yet prices had levelled out and were not really heading in either direction. This situation changed when the pandemic hit as people working from home were looking for more indoors and outdoors space which, coupled with pent up demand from lockdown and the stamp duty holiday resulted in more houses coming available. Unfortunately in the Hove area where I live a lot of these were snapped up by Londoners that were looking to relocate and do a combination of working from home or commuting. A lot of these seemed to be cash buyers.

 

[Eric the meek]

If a property portfolio is owned by a company, and that company overextends itself and runs into trouble, or the portfolio owners wish to cash in their chips, the company directors will look to sell assets to repair their balance sheet/exit from their positions.

Very few private individuals are looking to buy 10 or 20 properties at a time, and so these properties bypass the Rightmove/Zoopla portals and are sold business to business, hence Joe Public doesn’t get a look in.

There’s only a finite housing stock in the U.K., and these transactions diminish the stock available for general sale. This is one of the issues of treating housing as an asset class. Sharks swallow the minnows, whales swallow the sharks.


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Blimey. Joe Public doesn't get a look in? Who are these whales, sharks and minnows? Do you have any numbers on these transactions, because the industry data in front of me, suggests the polar opposite of what you claim.

https://www.financialreporter.co.uk/number-of-first-time-buyers-hits-20-year-high.html

And here's the same report from Zoopla, who you say are missing out on all this business from Joe Public:

https://www.zoopla.co.uk/discover/property-news/number-of-first-time-buyers-hits-20-year-high/

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Worked for a sub prime lender in the early 2000’s and one client always stands out.

Mr and Mrs, both made redundant from the same firm with c£50k at their disposal in the early 90’s. Started buying up rental properties and taking out capital constantly and reinvesting.

Grew the portfolio to £80,000,000 OMV and unencumbered.

He was the lead in all this and sadly passed away. She sold the lot to an investment syndicate for £65M a year later