Hopefully the begining of the end?

[Insel affe]

It's not all about the money though.

Thatcher polarised the country in a way that was more akin to a dictatorship than a modern democracy. She and her kind knew, as they say, the price of everything and the value of nothing. What a disgrace.

Dictarorship............look no further than the one and only Arthur Scargill

 

[El Presidente]

Don't wish anybody to die, except Glenn Murray

 

[Buzzer]

What Maggie was doing to this country at the time (she was brilliant in my opinion) had nothing to do with the Argies thinking they could take The Falklands.

The Falklands war started because of political unrest in Argentina - the president thought the only way to get the people on his side was to claim The Falklands.

Luckily we kicked their cheating arses.

Is the correct answer. The Argies tried it a few years before but the then foreign secretary, David Owen gave them a stern warning that the Falklands was not for negotiation. They chanced their arm with a new British Government a few years later and came seriously unstuck. We can also thank the hawkish and quite brilliant Casper Weinberger who rallied much needed US support and also somewhat awkwardly for a lot of people, General Pinochet who allowed special forces to launch operations from Chilean airspace.

As Chez points out, it was a desparate attempt to bolster support at home and it's no coincidence that the military junta fell shortly after losing the Falklands war.

I was never a Maggie lover. I got kicked out of a fringe meeting at a party conference once for arguing that her policies on Clause 28 were unnecessary and wrong but all these Billy Big Bollocks who claim they would dance on her grave - absolute bollocks, would you.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Of course, but the Government were warned about it by the military but were simply ignored.

On top that, the Government were busily trying to offload the place at the same time - to Argentina.

So much for their duty to the people down in the Falklands don't you think ?

Wasn't it more of a case of joint sovereignty which also extended to the F.I. dependencies of South Georgia , South Shetland and our survey bases in Antarctica ?

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Is the correct answer. The Argies tried it a few years before but the then foreign secretary, David Owen gave them a stern warning that the Falklands was not for negotiation. They chanced their arm with a new British Government a few years later and came seriously unstuck. We can also thank the hawkish and quite brilliant Casper Weinberger who rallied much needed US support and also somewhat awkwardly for a lot of people, General Pinochet who allowed special forces to launch operations from Chilean airspace.

As Chez points out, it was a desparate attempt to bolster support at home and it's no coincidence that the military junta fell shortly after losing the Falklands war.

I was never a Maggie lover. I got kicked out of a fringe meeting at a party conference once for arguing that her policies on Clause 28 were unnecessary and wrong but all these Billy Big Bollocks who claim they would dance on her grave - absolute bollocks, would you.

Buzzer you are missing out the important part where the Conservative Government at the time ignored intelligence from the military and foreign officials based in Argentina about an invasion being planned.
The Falklands War would not have been necessary if the government had sent down a few submarines and ships down there like Callaghan's lot did in 1997.
This gave the Argentineans the right signals, not to invade!

 

[clapham_gull]

Is the correct answer. The Argies tried it a few years before but the then foreign secretary, David Owen gave them a stern warning that the Falklands was not for negotiation. They chanced their arm with a new British Government a few years later and came seriously unstuck. We can also thank the hawkish and quite brilliant Casper Weinberger who rallied much needed US support and also somewhat awkwardly for a lot of people, General Pinochet who allowed special forces to launch operations from Chilean airspace.

As Chez points out, it was a desparate attempt to bolster support at home and it's no coincidence that the military junta fell shortly after losing the Falklands war.

I was never a Maggie lover. I got kicked out of a fringe meeting at a party conference once for arguing that her policies on Clause 28 were unnecessary and wrong but all these Billy Big Bollocks who claim they would dance on her grave - absolute bollocks, would you.

I'm not sure anyone is argueing why the Argentinians invaded, just adding the important point that we made it darn sight easier for them than we should have.

 

[clapham_gull]

Wasn't it more of a case of joint sovereignty which also extended to the F.I. dependencies of South Georgia , South Shetland and our survey bases in Antarctica ?

I thought it was some sort of "leaseback" arrangement. Either way, it wasn't exactly the most sensible thing to do given who they were dealing with.

Shouldn't take away from the people who died bravely fighting to get it back, I always think really for the people who live/lived there rather than for any sense of national pride.

 

[Hunting 784561]

This country would have been in a worse situation than Albania, or even worse - Belgium - without Maggie Thatcher.

She personally created the prosperous framework that we have all benefited from for the last 30 years.

Well apart from a few losers and professional keyboard marxists on here, obviously.....

Get well soon Maggie

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

You're a funny man El Pres. And not in a good way

 

[BeardyChops]

Further more, finding a cause to unite the country was a politically astute move by Thatcher. Just before the Falklands conflict, her popularity was at something like the lowest for any prime minister ever. (Although Brown has probably got that accolade now!)

So, changing from not worrying too much about the islands to committing a task force (or two) increased her standing tremendously.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Buzzer you are missing out the important part where the Conservative Government at the time ignored intelligence from the military and foreign officials based in Argentina about an invasion being planned.
The Falklands War would not have been necessary if the government had sent down a few submarines and ships down there like Callaghan's lot did in 1997.
This gave the Argentineans the right signals, not to invade!

Perhaps the announcement that HMS Endurance was going to be decommissioned and meant the Royal Navy wouldn't have an ice breaker in the fleet gave the wrong signals to the Argentinians ?

 

[Buzzer]

Buzzer you are missing out the important part where the Conservative Government at the time ignored intelligence from the military and foreign officials based in Argentina about an invasion being planned.
The Falklands War would not have been necessary if the government had sent down a few submarines and ships down there like Callaghan's lot did in 1997.
This gave the Argentineans the right signals, not to invade!

Agreed. Mistakes were made at political and at an operational level. They should have got wise to "fishing" vessels repeatedly testing British repsonses to intrusions into UK waters around the Falklands. I think you can lay the finger of blame, though at the bloke who (honourably) then resigned, Lord Carrington. He acknowledged it was his mistake. The response from the British from thereon in though was almost textbook and if it is possible to have a "good" war then that was one.

I'm sure the tories never planned for a war but it did have the happy accident of letting the rest of the world know that we would not negotiate over our foreign territories. The Spanish certainly got the message with Gibraltar.

 

[El Presidente]

You're a funny man El Pres. And not in a good way

I had to get an Albion angle somehow into this TEDIOUS thread though Tom

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

The sad fact is that Thatcher will go down in history as less of a warmongerer than Blair.

 

[Buzzer]

The sad fact is that Thatcher will go down in history as less of a warmongerer than Blair.

You really are clueless about politics and history aren't you? What warmongering did Thatcher ever do?

I'll agree that we could argue all day about whether she was a good or a bad thing for British culture and society but warmonger - absolutely not.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Agreed. Mistakes were made at political and at an operational level. They should have got wise to "fishing" vessels repeatedly testing British repsonses to intrusions into UK waters around the Falklands. I think you can lay the finger of blame, though at the bloke who (honourably) then resigned, Lord Carrington. He acknowledged it was his mistake. The response from the British from thereon in though was almost textbook and if it is possible to have a "good" war then that was one.

I'm sure the tories never planned for a war but it did have the happy accident of letting the rest of the world know that we would not negotiate over our foreign territories. The Spanish certainly got the message with Gibraltar.

I would also lay part of the blame at John Nott's feet, it was his Options for Change defence cuts that also sent the wrong signals too. We were lucky that Argies didn't invade a year or too later as by that time as I think we would have had one air carrier left!

It also helped them to victory in the 1983 General Election!

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

You really are clueless about politics and history aren't you? What warmongering did Thatcher ever do?

I'll agree that we could argue all day about whether she was a good or a bad thing for British culture and society but warmonger - absolutely not.

She was right up Reagan's arse for a start.

 

[Buzzer]

I would also lay part of the blame at John Nott's feet, it was his Options for Change defence cuts that also sent the wrong signals too. We were lucky that Argies didn't invade a year or too later as by that time I don't think we would have had one air carrier left!

It also helped them to victory in the 1983 General Election!

True. Forgot about Nott. The '83 election was definitely helped big time by the war but as big an influence was (in my opinion) the seismic shift to the right of the tabloid media (especially the Sun), the disastrous decision of the Labour party to elect Foot (thank God for them that Healey scraped through by about 0.1% or something for the deputy leadership) and the mess that Labour was in after the creation of the SDP.

I'm not convinced that Maggie had major support amongst traditional working class areas until 1983. The war certainly gave her the reputation but the support of the red tops (Mirror apart) can't be underestimated. They swung it.

 

[Buzzer]

She was right up Reagan's arse for a start.

Really? More like the other way round. Reagan was a genius at delegation. He was the ultimate frontman leaving his second-in-commands to do all the thinking.

But you said she was a warmonger. Offering support (even unequivocal), to the US doesn't make her a warmonger. We, the British, didn't initiate invasions into sovereign states under her watch.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

True. Forgot about Nott. The '83 election was definitely helped big time by the war but as big an influence was (in my opinion) the seismic shift to the right of the tabloid media (especially the Sun), the disastrous decision of the Labour party to elect Foot (thank God for them that Healey scraped through by about 0.1% or something for the deputy leadership) and the mess that Labour was in after the creation of the SDP.

I'm not convinced that Maggie had major support amongst traditional working class areas until 1983. The war certainly gave her the reputation but the support of the red tops (Mirror apart) can't be underestimated. They swung it.

Yet again despite your politics Buzzer I am agreeing with you, it's a pity the other Tories on here can't debate in the way you do without the lefty jibes all the time!