Homeless in Brighton

[yxee]

You're pointing your finger in the wrong direction. Other poor people are not to blame for your struggles - the problem are those at the top who are unwilling to distribute wealth fairly.

The top 1% of earners pay 33% of all income tax. How much more do you want?

Seriously, give me a figure.

 

[BadFish]

The top 1% of earners pay 33% of all income tax. How much more do you want?

Seriously, give me a figure.

I'd quite like them to stop paying themselves so much money and start paying their workers more.

 

[yxee]

I don't have time to write a comprehensive reply to this right now, but here is one of my previous replies to a similar comment:

The richest 1% of people in Britain have as much wealth as the poorest 55%.
The richest 1,000 people in Britain increased their personal wealth by £260bn in five years, while average income falls by 6%.
The top 0.1% of earners in Britain now earn £2.7m a year - meanwhile people on low pay is up from 3.4m to 5.2m, 20% of the population.

This isn't fair.

Graduated pay scales is not inherently unfair unless you believe that every single person works exactly as hard as each other.

If that's the case then yes, everyone should be paid equally.

 

[somerset]

Those *******s really are milking the system. Living the highlife while we all work like dogs..... *******s with their expensive addictions and glamorous free wheelin lifestyles!!

The point is simply illustrating that in some cases it can be a matter of choice that an individual drops out of mainstream society, barely anybody lacks compassion and empathy when you see an individual sleeping in a doorway or in a derelict squat.......but plenty make that choice because they refuse to conform to the general 'norms' of society.

 

[somerset]

I don't have time to write a comprehensive reply to this right now, but here is one of my previous replies to a similar comment:

The richest 1% of people in Britain have as much wealth as the poorest 55%.
The richest 1,000 people in Britain increased their personal wealth by £260bn in five years, while average income falls by 6%.
The top 0.1% of earners in Britain now earn £2.7m a year - meanwhile people on low pay is up from 3.4m to 5.2m, 20% of the population.

This isn't fair.

Not a single acknowledgement of the tax paid.....typical leftist blinkered view........ 1% pay 33% of the tax take......... that means something matey....stop bleating "it's not fair".

 

[BadFish]

The point is simply illustrating that in some cases it can be a matter of choice that an individual drops out of mainstream society, barely anybody lacks compassion and empathy when you see an individual sleeping in a doorway or in a derelict squat.......but plenty make that choice because they refuse to conform to the general 'norms' of society.

Choices are made for a number of reasons. If someone is making a choice to live in a doorway i am guessing that their other options were none too pleasant. Even if it is a lifestyle choice they are making i feel nothing but sympathy for them.

 

[yxee]

Facts of life: some people are smarter, harder working, more ambitious than others. They get paid more and subsequently get taxed to death. Success isn't so much rewarded as coveted by some people it seems. I'm all for giving every CHILD a fighting chance, but you cannot just endlessly redistribute wealth to the point that half the population is freeloading.

 

[BadFish]

Not a single acknowledgement of the tax paid.....typical leftist blinkered view........ 1% pay 33% of the tax take......... that means something matey....stop bleating "it's not fair".

Simultaneously attacking homeless people and addicts while defending those with all the cash. Typical right wing thinking there too.

Much happier on the left myself.

 

[BadFish]

Facts of life: some people are smarter, harder working, more ambitious than others. They get paid more and subsequently get taxed to death. Success isn't so much rewarded as coveted by some people it seems. I'm all for giving every CHILD a fighting chance, but you cannot just endlessly redistribute wealth to the point that half the population is freeloading.

So you are saying that the 1% are harder working and smarter than the rest of us?

 

[pastafarian]

but you cannot just endlessly redistribute wealth to the point that half the population is freeloading.

But i do like the idea of me doing sod all all day except reading a good book and drinking beer and then Russel Brand has to redistribute his millions to me.
I can then sod off on a world cruise for a few years and Brand can work some more films,get some more millions and then have to give them away to someone else who doesnt want to work for their money.
I think thats how it works

 

[BadFish]

But i do like the idea of me doing sod all all day except reading a good book and drinking beer and then Russel Brand has to redistribute his millions to me.
I can then sod off on a world cruise for a few years and Brand can work some more films,get some more millions and then have to give them away to someone else who doesnt want to work for their money.
I think thats how it works

Only works if you sleep in a doorway i am afraid.

 

[Biscuit]

We have people in work having to use food banks. Homelessness and poverty generally is a real problem throughout the country - Not just in Brighton.

I don't have the time to volunteer for this cause but I do try and donate here and there or buy a hot meal for a homeless person on occasion. I find it quite affecting seeing people sleep on a cold street corner when I have the luxury of a warm king size bed. I've nothing but respect for the brilliant work done by Brighton's homeless workers/volunteers - they do a great job in very difficult circumstances.

What can be done? We need to think long term and we need to build more accommodation for the worst off in society. Private renting is too expensive. The right to buy sold off the family silver as far as I'm concerned. Now if this country truly cares for those worse off then we should bite the bullet and build more. People need somewhere to live. Social housing and the NHS were pillars of this country - it showed how compassionate we were to the worse off in society. Both are barely still alive and apathy in the general public has allowed it to happen.

 

[yxee]

So you are saying that the 1% are harder working and smarter than the rest of us?

I was speaking in general terms, that intelligence and hard work lead to better careers and higher salaries. I don't think it's a very controversial idea.

 

[Biscuit]

I was speaking in general terms, that intelligence and hard work lead to better careers and higher salaries. I don't think it's a very controversial idea.

Generally speaking you're right but meritocracies do not work in practice. An awful lot of privilege is passed down. The wealthy send their offspring to better schools and as such better opportunities are afforded to them. Also, failure - and being allowed to fail - is an important aspect of the capitalist system. There will always be those on the bottom and wealth will always help create more wealth.

 

[yxee]

Generally speaking you're right but meritocracies do not work in practice. An awful lot of privilege is passed down. The wealthy send their offspring to better schools and as such better opportunities are afforded to them. Also, failure - and being allowed to fail - is an important aspect of the capitalist system. There will always be those on the bottom and wealth will always help create more wealth.

I can live with unfair starting opportunities if the only alternative is no reward for hard work.

At least it gives people the opportunity to move up the ladder, rather than destroying the ladder itself.

The safety net is a crucial part of society, as well as rewarding hard work (and allowing parents to work hard for the benefit of their children, another noble cause) - and that's where homelessness comes in - but there's a very clear dividing line between that and some of the views in this thread, which seem to amount to communism.

 

[Biscuit]

I can live with unfair starting opportunities if the only alternative is no reward for hard work.

At least it gives people the opportunity to move up the ladder, rather than destroying the ladder itself.

The safety net is a crucial part of society, as well as rewarding hard work (and allowing parents to work hard for the benefit of their children, another noble cause) - and that's where homelessness comes in - but there's a very clear dividing line between that and some of the views in this thread, which seem to amount to communism.

I quite agree. I naturally sit left of centre and believe how a society treats its most vulnerable is a good measure with which to judge that society, but that doesn't mean there can ever be a realistic and workable catch all solution. As you say, society needs to provide the ladder and ensure that the opportunities are there. For me, social housing, is a crucial rung on that ladder.

 

[BadFish]

I was speaking in general terms, that intelligence and hard work lead to better careers and higher salaries. I don't think it's a very controversial idea.

Not controversial at all. i just wondered how much smarter and harder working they are then the rest of us. Do their salaries reflect this I wonder?

When CEO's earn 400 times more than their average employees do they work 400 times harder?

See the controversy isn't in the fact that their are people who earn more than others it is in the fact that the amount they earn is enormous in comparison to others. No-one is talking about communism or socialism just a fair dividing of the world wealth. The trickle down idea has proven to be a flow up system which massively benefits those at the top.

The irony is that while they squirrel away all the wealth those from which it is being taken turn around and blame those who have even less.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

Why do they all have dogs?.....because they get a benefit allowance to feed the dog, then give him free scraps and use the money for themselves.....

It also limits their accommodation choices if and when offered, another choice that dictates their circumstances.

Do you want the answer? For a start it's a minority of rough sleepers who own dogs. I'd say there are two categories

1) those that want the companionship of the dog...rough sleeping is very lonely and it's very hard to trust anyone. They may sleep in the same sleeping bag for warmth. They may also be used for protection as rough sleepers are almost guaranteed to be the victims of violent crime at some point. These dogs are usually really well looked after and loved, often to the detriment of the owners well being- this is the majority.

2) those that have a dog as a 'begging aid'. Those dogs probably aren't that well looked after. This is the minority

What benefit allowance do you get for feeding a dog?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Yes, the homeless ARE an eyesore. Maybe, just maybe if they stopped drinking and cleaned themselves up they might find a job like the rest of us. And how come most of them seem to be able to afford to feed a bloody dog? We need to be less accommodating to them so that they sod off to somewhere else and ruin some other city.

It's like Santa Monica used to be in the 80s, maybe still is ... attracted the homeless from all over California because they knew they could get free food and accommodation. The result was it put normal decent people off visiting the city. Who wants to be accosted by drunken homeless people at every street corner?

Market Street in San Francisco is another example. They hang around there in large numbers. The filthiest, smelliest people you have ever seen. Only place I have seen people pissing in the street in broad daylight. Disgusting. Friend of mine who visits the city regularly has found a solution .... stay in a hotel on one of the city's many hills. The homeless don't do hills.

The solution. Stop giving them money, stop giving them food, stop providing them with accommodation. Maybe then they'd figure out that the world didn't owe them a living and if they want to eat they'd better smarten up and find a job.

As you can tell I have zero sympathy fort these people.

A post which somewhat proves you've never actually bothered to speak to any of the people on the street. So much inaccuracy in your post it's difficult to know where to start.

Not all drink but I know that if I had to suffer that type of existance I'd drink to numb the pain ( and the cold ). As for cleaning themselves up - where ? It's not exactly like McDonanlds has a full showering suite. If you hadn't noticed it's somewhat difficult to get a job without an address. Where should a potential employer send paperwork - the steps outside the One Church ?

The answer is NOT to stop helping these people - the answer is to provide proper mental health services, proper support for abused people and proper support to those leaving the military. I guess you just have to hope your cosy existance continues and you never find yourself needing compassion and support.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

This thread certainly flushes out some very nasty people.