Holland and Italy/France situation

[Trufflehound]

Van Basten insists the Dutch "don't have a B-team" and that all 23 players in the squad are worthy of a place in the starting line up. (Excuse to start with a team of also-rans then). However, he has also said that since they've found a rhythm, it would be foolish to upset that.

But there does seem to be an unfounded assumption that the Dutch would win at a canter. Lest we forget, in qualifying the Romanians took 4 points out of 6 in their two matches with full-strength Dutch teams, and the Dutch admit they were mightily relieved to get away with 0-0 in Amsterdam.

The 62-ft long gerbil will doubtless have a say in the outcome anyway, so it's all academic.

 

[Trufflehound]

Holland are looking ahead, and have bigger fish to fry.

They are looking ahead, but in typical smug Dutch fashion, a lot of the talk has already switched to whether it will be Spain, Italy or Romania (haven't heard many people give France a second thought) in the semis. They seem to have forgotten there's a QF to win first...

 

[Jeep]

I think I swa a report this am that there is a chance the Italians and French may have a humiliationg penalty shoot out to see who finshes third and who is bottom of the group.

I can't remember how it works out, and there is a chance I was still asleep and dreaming!

 

[Simster]

Those 'they're all conspiring against us' specialists Italy are already trying to load the pressure on Holland amid cries of 'fix' over the match v Romania. Laughable, they should know, as the only big league regularly implicated in such things.

But do you think Holland have a duty to put out their best side against Romania?

Surely if you win the group with a game to spare, you've earned the right to do whatever you want, and rest all the big names if you so desire. Others may not like it, but they should have got more points in their first two games. Holland are looking ahead, and have bigger fish to fry.

I have to say, the fact that it is Italy who may suffer as a result has a certain beautiful irony.

Totally agree. It's also incredibly disrespectful to the Romanians who have proven more than a match for Italy and France.

Substitute 'Italy' for 'England'. Would we feel the same then?

Speaking only for myself, yes. I'd say English fans have already proven to be reasonably pragmatic on non-qualification. Nobody disagrees that we weren't good enough as a team to qualify let alone find themselves in Italy's position.

 

[keaton]

It's lucky that England fans don't get this paraniod about conspiracies. I don't remember anyone bleating about Israel-Russia game beforehand

 

[Man of Harveys]

This, apparently from the head of the Italian football association:
"It's a natural worry [i.e. Romania getting sufficient points against Holland]. The credibility of the tournament and European football at large is at stake. If you look at the way Holland beat both Italy and France, the match with Romania should end similarly. If not, we're going to have to take a deeper look."

The idea of the head of the most corrupt league in Europe by MILES having the nerve to wag the finger on a morality issue defies belief. I f***ing hate the Dutch team but I'd be hard pushed to say they haven't earned the right to take it easy.

I've not forgiven them for stitching up Torsten Frings in 2006 either. Cheating cunnts.

 

[backson]

The following is from the BBC website. Pick the bones out of this lot!


The Netherlands have won Group C and will play the Group D runners-up in the quarter-finals.

Romania will qualify for the quarter-finals if they beat the Netherlands, eliminating France and Italy.

If Romania fail to beat the Netherlands, the winner of France v Italy will go through.

If France and Italy draw, a point against the Netherlands would be enough to send Romania through. France must win to have any chance of qualifying.

If France and Italy share a score draw (1-1, 2-2, 3-3 etc), Italy will go through if Romania lose (by any score). In this scenario, Italy, Romania and France will be level on two points each but Italy would have scored more goals in games between the 3 teams.

Romania will finish bottom of the group if they lose and France and Italy draw 2-2, 3-3 or 4-4. France will finish bottom if they draw 1-1 unless Romania lose 3-0 or by a four-goal margin.

If France and Italy draw 0-0, Romania can lose by one goal, two goals or by a three-goal margin other than 3-0 but still qualify. In this scenario, Italy and Romania would have identical head-to-head records, but Romania would have better goal difference in ALL group matches or, in the case of the three-goal defeats, goals scored. France would finish bottom, having scored fewer goals head-to-head v Italy and Romania.

If Romania lose 3-0 to the Dutch, Italy would qualify with a 0-0 draw against France because of their superior coefficient points. France would finish bottom as they would have scored fewer goals head-to-head v Italy and Romania.

If Romania lose by four goals or more and the other game ends 0-0, Italy would proceed with a better overall goal difference than Romania. France would finish bottom as they would have scored fewer goals head-to-head v Italy and Romania.

If France and Italy draw AND Romania avoid defeat, then Romania go through. France and Italy will have identical records and a unprecedented penalty shoot-out will decide who finishes third and fourth.

 

[crodonilson]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the issue one thing is for certain..........

This promises to be one of the great footballing nights, full of twists, turns, drama and unbearable tension.

 

[sten_super]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the issue one thing is for certain..........

This promises to be one of the great footballing nights, full of twists, turns, drama and unbearable tension.

I really hope that Romania get what they need (not fussed whether its a win or a draw) against Holland, that France vs Italy ends in a 0-0 draw, and that they then have to have a penalty shoot-out to decide who finishes 3rd/4th. That would be f***ing hilarious!

 

[Icy Gull]

Tomatofest on their return to Italy for the Italians if they go out at this stage. French will just ignore it as they really don't give a f*** about football unless they're winning.

Holland have earned the right to do wtf they like in the next game.

The credibilty of the tournament was lost when the best team in Europe failed to qualify only because they had a shit coach, allegedly

 

[the right footed denilson]

Is it not the Netherlands?

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Holland need to rest players. The type of game they play mean they need van Bronkhorst/Kuyt/Schneider at a minimum getting what rest they can. They need to look after themselves.

Romania did beat Holland - but what I heard was that they battered them for most of the match - and could have won easily.

Holland to play a weakened team and still win.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

I've not forgiven them for stitching up Torsten Frings in 2006 either. Cheating cunnts.

what was that then ?

Also going back to Croatia - I can't look at Bilic without seeing his pathetic dive - ending up in the French player getting booked and missing the World Cup final.

 

[house your seagull]

Holland to play a weakened team and still win.

i concur - having seen the romanians twice i thought they were toothless, a dutch second string should still do the required damage for our italian/french cousins.

 

[Man of Harveys]

what was that then ?

Also going back to Croatia - I can't look at Bilic without seeing his pathetic dive - ending up in the French player getting booked and missing the World Cup final.

It's all here: Torsten Frings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Basically the Argentians just started (literally) beating the shit out of the German players and officials for having the temerity to beat them in the WCQF in Berlin. Frings - rightly - chinned one of them back; so the Italians made damn sure by squawking like toddlers that he was banned for the semi final against them. Cheats.

 

[cjwoolven]

Yeh i think Holland will put our fringe players in the game tonight..
Holland 0 - 1 Romania...

Italy and France.... well no-ones cares, their both crap.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I expect Van Basten to rest 6 or 7 players. There are 12 substitutes who will be GAGGING for gametime, and the way Holland have been playing they'll believe they can leave with a winners medal.

I beleive most international managers would take this course of action; some might even completely rest the starting XI.

France and Italy have only themselves to blame. We could just have easily have had a scenario whereby Italy and France could have played out a tame draw to guarantee both go through. I'm sure the Italiand would have been VERY comfortable with that.

Romania will fancy themselves against a Dutch side with most of the outfield missing, but nothing changes the fact that Romania don't have a prolific goalscorer.

I thing the Holland - Romania match will be a draw. France v Italy is a COMPLETE lottery.

 

[Trufflehound]

Is it not the Netherlands?

Strictly speaking yes. "Holland" is only that scummy bit around Rotterdam and Amsterdam full of dykes and dykes.

But the Dutch only have themselves to blame for the international misconception.

Even down here in "Brabant", everyone cheers for "Hup Holland", and if you walk into any tourist shop, all the T-shirts and mugs all say "I've been to Holland", so how are foreigners supposed to know?

Besides, the Dutch refer to the whole of the UK as "Engeland", and everyone who lives there as "Engels" regardless of whether you are actually Scottish, Northern Irish or Welsh - so stuff 'em, I say.

 

[Icy Gull]

It's all here: Torsten Frings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Basically the Argentians just started (literally) beating the shit out of the German players and officials for having the temerity to beat them in the WCQF in Berlin. Frings - rightly - chinned one of them back; so the Italians made damn sure by squawking like toddlers that he was banned for the semi final against them. Cheats.

Mild stuff compared to the worst ever foul committed on the World stage..by a German and the **** managed to stay on the pitch and get the free kick, bent ref job that one

[yt]3byTNRoxujo[/yt]

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

I'm quater Italian, but I hope the cheating bastards go out and Romania go through