Hitzlsperger

[Tricky Dicky]

I think most fans of most clubs would react, individually, pretty much with the same indifference.

Even now there seems to be more made of celebrities coming out by media than their fans.


But football fans are also different. Individually, in discussion away from the pitch, we are usually a reasonable bunch. But when you throw in tribal rivalries, heat of the battle (things that don't exist, or no where near the same degree with music or film stars) in the middle of a crowd in the tens of thousands, a pack mentality can take over. And the "banter" will flow, and I think it would be naive to say it won't cross the line, where many of the types of people who would react as the people reacting reasonably on here would, find themselves joining in, getting caught up in the moment and not stopping to think how appreciate their chants are.

Pretty much my thoughts, sadly, but it is possible that once one or two have borne the brunt of this, those that follow will get it easier, when people have got bored of it. Unfortunately it takes that one or two to run the gauntlet.

 

[shaolinpunk]

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."

- Agent K, Men In Black (1997)

 

[Munkfish]

I'm sure some gay players will come out to their teams, I dont believe this will be the biggest issue, in my opinion its very much how the media and fans will react.

There must be players who have come out to there teams in the past and im sure they will get a lot of stick for it, but no more than any bloke will get stick for shagging an ugly bird or doing something stupid.

 

[Pevenseagull]

I just want to hear Sylvester the Cat saying his name.

good work

 

[Lady Whistledown]

I think people are giving football supporters less credit than they should. I imagine all (OK, most) of us have friends or work colleagues who are gay, and I suspect nobody ran round the office pointing and singing "Do you take it up the arse" when their sexuality became public knowledge.

I know football crowds have a certain dynamic, but on an occasion when (I'm ashamed to say) I heard a couple of Albion fans/morons attempt to start a chant of "You're just a town full of Pakis" at the Walkers Stadium, everyone else around them immediately told them to shut the hell up- albeit possibly not quite as politely as that. It's simply not socially acceptable to start singing abuse en masse towards an individual because of his sexuality, and I do like to think that most people would be embarrassed enough to have a word with anybody who did.

There is also the fact that the first time a current player comes out, his first few games after that will be subject to huge media scrutiny for precisely the reasons we've discussed, to see how fans react. I'd like to think the FA would grow some balls for once and make a firm statement that any club whose fans are found to be verbally abusing gay players would be punished, and therefore most supporters would be conscious of that.

Of course you'd get the odd troglodyte, determined to share his hilarious banter with the rest of the crowd- I think there was some rugby league fan who got in trouble for abusing Gareth Thomas at a game- but I genuinely do believe that, in this day and age, most people are a bit more civilised and would realise what a step that player had taken to get to that position.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

I think people are giving football supporters less credit than they should. I imagine all (OK, most) of us have friends or work colleagues who are gay, and I suspect nobody ran round the office pointing and singing "Do you take it up the arse" when their sexuality became public knowledge.

I know football crowds have a certain dynamic, but on an occasion when (I'm ashamed to say) I heard a couple of Albion fans/morons attempt to start a chant of "You're just a town full of Pakis" at the Walkers Stadium, everyone else around them immediately told them to shut the hell up- albeit possibly not quite as politely as that. It's simply not socially acceptable to start singing abuse en masse towards an individual because of his sexuality, and I do like to think that most people would be embarrassed enough to have a word with anybody who did.

There is also the fact that the first time a current player comes out, his first few games after that will be subject to huge media scrutiny for precisely the reasons we've discussed, to see how fans react. I'd like to think the FA would grow some balls for once and make a firm statement that any club whose fans are found to be verbally abusing gay players would be punished, and therefore most supporters would be conscious of that.

Of course you'd get the odd troglodyte, determined to share his hilarious banter with the rest of the crowd- I think there was some rugby league fan who got in trouble for abusing Gareth Thomas at a game- but I genuinely do believe that, in this day and age, most people are a bit more civilised and would realise what a step that player had taken to get to that position.

I would very much like to think you are right and I am wrong.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

I would very much like to think you are right and I am wrong.

Don't get me wrong, there would be a few troglodytes, as I've already said. But I think the inevitable media storm would die down, other players would follow suit, and eventually it would all become as irrelevant as a player's skin colour is now.

Curiously, I wonder if other players/ managers' reactions might be what prevents players coming out as it stands. There are still a few old dinosaurs around in the game, who worry that having a gay player on the team would impact on team morale (because all gay men fancy all other men, you know?). Ultimately, any footballer wants to be successful, and I could see someone not wanting his sexuality being public knowledge out of a fear that other clubs might not want to sign them because of the Beckham-style media storm that would accompany them for a while. Or because they'd worry a manager might not be comfortable with them due to some deep-seated personal views on the subject, and find reasons to drop them.

Am pretty sure Rio Ferdinand had to apologise once for using the term "******" in an interview or a tweet. The hilarious banter of the locker room, eh?

 

[terryberry1]

Evander hollyfield will go mad

 

[Seagull1989]

Good on the guy! Probably the most high profile player to come out to date.

 

[Grombleton]

I just want to hear Sylvester the Cat saying his name.

I nearly spat my sandwich out at that comment

 

[narly101]

Interestingly enough, I've just had to throw the Inclusion and Diversity Policy at two individuals at work today because of "inappropriate comments in the workplace2 because of this news.

 

[Jesus Gul]

Well he was an iron

 

[Acker79]

I think people are giving football supporters less credit than they should. I imagine all (OK, most) of us have friends or work colleagues who are gay, and I suspect nobody ran round the office pointing and singing "Do you take it up the arse" when their sexuality became public knowledge.

I know football crowds have a certain dynamic, but on an occasion when (I'm ashamed to say) I heard a couple of Albion fans/morons attempt to start a chant of "You're just a town full of Pakis" at the Walkers Stadium, everyone else around them immediately told them to shut the hell up- albeit possibly not quite as politely as that. It's simply not socially acceptable to start singing abuse en masse towards an individual because of his sexuality, and I do like to think that most people would be embarrassed enough to have a word with anybody who did.

There is also the fact that the first time a current player comes out, his first few games after that will be subject to huge media scrutiny for precisely the reasons we've discussed, to see how fans react. I'd like to think the FA would grow some balls for once and make a firm statement that any club whose fans are found to be verbally abusing gay players would be punished, and therefore most supporters would be conscious of that.

Of course you'd get the odd troglodyte, determined to share his hilarious banter with the rest of the crowd- I think there was some rugby league fan who got in trouble for abusing Gareth Thomas at a game- but I genuinely do believe that, in this day and age, most people are a bit more civilised and would realise what a step that player had taken to get to that position.

But as a society, racism is treated much more seriously than homophobia. Even today remarks that could have homophobic connotations are thrown around without the sort of concern or drawing the same sort of offence. From "that's so gay". Look at the debate around homophobia at the amex last season (or was it earlier this season?) where people completely shocked that what they saw as "banter" wasn't universally received as such, and through to the fact Gay Marriage is only just being legalised and it still being scially acceptable to be so dismissive of gay rights.

You even say yourself that the FA have not really made a firm statement on homophobia, which also breeds acceptance for it as part of "banter", but they have taken many opportunities to make clear their position on racism.

And I think you understate the difference between having someone in your office be gay and getting on with your job, and having someone representing your (possibly hated) rival being gay, in an environment when you have the anonymity of a crowd within which you are trying to make a hostile atmosphere for them.

 

[Bad Ash]

I think people are giving football supporters less credit than they should. I imagine all (OK, most) of us have friends or work colleagues who are gay, and I suspect nobody ran round the office pointing and singing "Do you take it up the arse" when their sexuality became public knowledge.

Conversely I've also never heard anyone in my office chant "Who at all the pies?" to someone slightly above average weight. It's also pretty rare for anyone to get up out of their chair point at a colleague and shout "Oi, XXX you're a C**T!". Yet, both are pretty common sights (well, sounds) at football.

 

[bn1&bn3 Albion]

It's a sad state when someones sexuality is news... What does it have to do with the general public?

 

[beorhthelm]

I'm sure some gay players will come out to their teams, I dont believe this will be the biggest issue, in my opinion its very much how the media and fans will react.

There must be players who have come out to there teams in the past and im sure they will get a lot of stick for it, but no more than any bloke will get stick for shagging an ugly bird or doing something stupid.

it occurs to be that its the dressing room, not the media, that players would be concerned about. they work with them and in contact - literally - a lot of their day, and thats a high testosterone envirnoment. where as the media they can ignore, shut out to a large extent.

 

[Meade's Ball]

I think some areas of the crowd are too easily led by one neanderthal loudmouth and a reasonable percentage unescaped from schoolyard banter to recognise the limits of acceptability that some of more mature of us might have. Add to that the wrong assumption that everywhere in the UK is like the supposedly cultured Brighton and London (not including Croydon and Bermondsey and Thornton Heath etc within the capital's borders), along with the fact that footballers themselves remain in this machoman flangestud role from the 70s aspiration, and the signs are that there is a long way to go before gay players are not confronted with 90 minutes of derision from way too large a set of the crowd. The profession needs to grow up.
Step by step though and it's great that Hitzle made it public to raise the debate. I hope it will inspire other players to not feel they need to have their true selves delitescent all the way to the end of their careers and beyond.

 

[Mellotron]

it occurs to be that its the dressing room, not the media, that players would be concerned about. they work with them and in contact - literally - a lot of their day, and thats a high testosterone envirnoment. where as the media they can ignore, shut out to a large extent.

I could be wrong but some of Hitzlsperger's comments suggest to me that he's has come out to some of the players he's played with.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Good on him but my initial reaction is it's a sad sign of the times that still, it's seen as such a big deal for a player to come out and the fact he also waited until his retirement.

My sentiments exactly and entirely.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I just want to hear Sylvester the Cat saying his name.

Made me laugh out loud, much to my wife's consternation