[TV] His Dark Materials ... Why ? and, whats the point ?

[Mellotron]

Loved the books - brilliant story telling and much more subtle dystopian teenage fiction than average. Characterisation genuinely some of my favorite ever (being an avid reader this says a lot).

Thought film was utter cr*p, quite like the tv, beautiful to look at and *quite* magical but so difficult to match your own imagination. Interested to see how it pans out and enjoying it at the moment. 17yr old daughter avoiding so can read books first instead. All in all though, still a joy.

Just had to comment upon seeing your username - so glad this great memory is kept alive.

Couldn’t see a ****ing thing at half time thanks to that board.

 

[Arthritic Toe]

Just had to comment upon seeing your username - so glad this great memory is kept alive.

Couldn’t see a ****ing thing at half time thanks to that board.

I remember his very last game. Just that one time, he got a rousing ovation as he went round the pitch, rather than the dog's abuse he usually got.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I remember his very last game. Just that one time, he got a rousing ovation as he went round the pitch, rather than the dog's abuse he usually got.

I always remember the abuse as being more tongue in cheek than vitriolic.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Didn't think episode 1 was all that great, but loved episode 2. Top show, can't wait for part 3.

Strewth - I'll have to watch it again. Completely missed that the sinister fellow with the snake daemon had actually passed into our world for a bit. I thought it was all one dimension

 

[Igzilla]

Strewth - I'll have to watch it again. Completely missed that the sinister fellow with the snake daemon had actually passed into our world for a bit. I thought it was all one dimension

Presumably Snake bloke has an address in our world, as he has a car (presumably paid for, registered, taxed and insured) and a mobile phone. Probably has a bank account too, unless he was able to gets wads of cash from somewhere to buy said phone and car. Mrs Igzilla and our son are loving this, but I'm finding it all a bit "meh". What if your daemon was a mouse or a small bird - wouldn't it be at risk from all the cats in the world? What if you got a slug instead? No swimming in the sea for you, then. I did try reading the book once but gave up as I thought it was complete codswallop.

PS: And another thing - wouldn't you be a bit wary of someone who had a snake or a flying beetle as a daemon? Wouldn't that just make it really easy for the coppers to catch the villains? "All right Sarge, we'll just round up all the people with snakes, creepy crawlies and 'orrible monkeys and see who did it." Would you want to be friends with someone who has a mosquito or a bluebottle daemon?

 

[brakespear]

Each to their own, you like what you like, but I didn't think this series was a patch on Tad Williams Memory, Sorrow and Thorn books, or Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn Trilogy, or Robin Hobb's Farseer and Tawny Man trilogies (that had me in tears). I guess that's what's great about literature, there's something for everyone.

Not agreeing in general regarding the series because I haven't read them (or watched the series past the first episode) but a just for the mention of Memory, Sorrow and Thorn (which I have heard were an inspiration for George R Martin but I haven't reador watched his high fantasy books/series bar a few pages) and would add the Shadowmarch books also.

 

[Mellotron]

I always remember the abuse as being more tongue in cheek than vitriolic.

I think it was both - to me the joke was how insanely over the top and vitriolic the shouting was, but that it was tongue in cheek. If that makes sense.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Presumably Snake bloke has an address in our world, as he has a car (presumably paid for, registered, taxed and insured) and a mobile phone. Probably has a bank account too, unless he was able to gets wads of cash from somewhere to buy said phone and car. Mrs Igzilla and our son are loving this, but I'm finding it all a bit "meh". What if your daemon was a mouse or a small bird - wouldn't it be at risk from all the cats in the world? What if you got a slug instead? No swimming in the sea for you, then. I did try reading the book once but gave up as I thought it was complete codswallop.

PS: And another thing - wouldn't you be a bit wary of someone who had a snake or a flying beetle as a daemon? Wouldn't that just make it really easy for the coppers to catch the villains? "All right Sarge, we'll just round up all the people with snakes, creepy crawlies and 'orrible monkeys and see who did it." Would you want to be friends with someone who has a mosquito or a bluebottle daemon?

We'd all have Seagull daemons. Just imagine how shit that would be eating a bag of chips.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I couldn't agree more, I've never had as emotional response to a book series, other than The Lord of the Rings, as HDM. They are something special.

Have you read the three short stories? They're rather nice tales too.

This is exactly where I am! I've read them all, but I only really remember Lyra's Oxford. When the series is over, I will go back and read the whole series from the start, including the tales. I hope they get worked into the series, somehow. There's scope, assuming they do 1 series per book and they continue on after the events of The Amber Spyglass.

I agree (about how good they are and their importance). I'll also add mention of the sub themes of depression, isolation and reconciliation. And the triumph of an enduring human spirit.

I'm 3/4 way through the fifth book right now.....stunning.

I read the first three twice. You can miss important things on first read.

And when I started the first book I read 40 pages and gave up. Irritating bollocks, I thought. So glad I gave it another go. Some of the characterisation is extraordinary.

As for the TV series, I haven't watched episode 2 yet, but so far so good. I feared the daemons might come across as Disney characters in CGI, and I'm neutral about this at the moment. We shall see, later, when Mrs Coulter's monkey reveals his colours. And in book 4, of course, we have Bonneville and his dog..... (which I found so disturbing it is unlikely I'll re-read that book.....).

If you enjoy dark fantasy that is actually a smart satire of human foibles, fill your boots. Expect to be surprised and moved.

The subthemes are what really get to me. I don't want to spoil the 5th book for anyone, but Lyra as a young woman without her confidence, boldness and innocence is an even more compelling character to follow. It's a total break from HDM, but it's a brilliant story in its own right, as we La Belle Sauvage. They stand up on their own with their own merits and add a real future to the story. I have read all the books multiple times, they were a gift from a good friend I'm no longer in touch with, so they'll always be particular special to me.

The episode last night was a bit disappointing, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the Father seeing Lyra with Mrs Coulter, on the assumption that his character follows the arc of his equivalent in The Amber Spyglass. Seeing Boreal cross between worlds already is a surprise, but it has to hook people in and make them realise it's possible to move between worlds, as Asriel is intending to do. I think last night was a break from the books in a smallish way, but it was still a good watch and ultimately, the books are one thing. The TV series doesn't have to be a total carbon copy for it to be enjoyable.

 

[vegster]

This is exactly where I am! I've read them all, but I only really remember Lyra's Oxford. When the series is over, I will go back and read the whole series from the start, including the tales. I hope they get worked into the series, somehow. There's scope, assuming they do 1 series per book and they continue on after the events of The Amber Spyglass.



The subthemes are what really get to me. I don't want to spoil the 5th book for anyone, but Lyra as a young woman without her confidence, boldness and innocence is an even more compelling character to follow. It's a total break from HDM, but it's a brilliant story in its own right, as we La Belle Sauvage. They stand up on their own with their own merits and add a real future to the story. I have read all the books multiple times, they were a gift from a good friend I'm no longer in touch with, so they'll always be particular special to me.

The episode last night was a bit disappointing, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the Father seeing Lyra with Mrs Coulter, on the assumption that his character follows the arc of his equivalent in The Amber Spyglass. Seeing Boreal cross between worlds already is a surprise, but it has to hook people in and make them realise it's possible to move between worlds, as Asriel is intending to do. I think last night was a break from the books in a smallish way, but it was still a good watch and ultimately, the books are one thing. The TV series doesn't have to be a total carbon copy for it to be enjoyable.

I saw last nights and found it pretty baffling. Nice to see the old " Air Vent " ruse being used in order for our heroine to break in to Vinegar Tit's study, many happy hours spent watching the most advanced submarine in the world ( Voyage To The Bottom Of the Sea) on its adventures finding that using the air vent conduits was the quickest and safest way of getting about.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I saw last nights and found it pretty baffling. Nice to see the old " Air Vent " ruse being used in order for our heroine to break in to Vinegar Tit's study, many happy hours spent watching the most advanced submarine in the world ( Voyage To The Bottom Of the Sea) on its adventures finding that using the air vent conduits was the quickest and safest way of getting about.

To be fair though - that's how Mrs Coulter's ******* daemon was moving around, which is where there was a ladder for them to climb up on both sides. We'll see if there are air vents at Bolvangar, as there are in the book!

What aspects of it did you find baffling? Boreal moving between worlds?

Personally, I had a horrible feeling we were all about to meet Will already. I'm really pleased that didn't happen - that would have really annoyed me if he'd have appeared already.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

This is exactly where I am! I've read them all, but I only really remember Lyra's Oxford. When the series is over, I will go back and read the whole series from the start, including the tales. I hope they get worked into the series, somehow. There's scope, assuming they do 1 series per book and they continue on after the events of The Amber Spyglass.



The subthemes are what really get to me. I don't want to spoil the 5th book for anyone, but Lyra as a young woman without her confidence, boldness and innocence is an even more compelling character to follow. It's a total break from HDM, but it's a brilliant story in its own right, as we La Belle Sauvage. They stand up on their own with their own merits and add a real future to the story. I have read all the books multiple times, they were a gift from a good friend I'm no longer in touch with, so they'll always be particular special to me.

The episode last night was a bit disappointing, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the Father seeing Lyra with Mrs Coulter, on the assumption that his character follows the arc of his equivalent in The Amber Spyglass. Seeing Boreal cross between worlds already is a surprise, but it has to hook people in and make them realise it's possible to move between worlds, as Asriel is intending to do. I think last night was a break from the books in a smallish way, but it was still a good watch and ultimately, the books are one thing. The TV series doesn't have to be a total carbon copy for it to be enjoyable.

I like the cut of your jib. Yes, I used to be extremely precious about plot deviation (and had a conniption fit over the Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy film - WTAF? ). However, now I am older and more mature (ahem) I am prepared to tolerate the art of the apocryphal screenplay. I have been too busy to watch episode two yet (tonight maybe). I will post my comments when I have.

 

[vegster]

To be fair though - that's how Mrs Coulter's ******* daemon was moving around, which is where there was a ladder for them to climb up on both sides. We'll see if there are air vents at Bolvangar, as there are in the book!

What aspects of it did you find baffling? Boreal moving between worlds?

Personally, I had a horrible feeling we were all about to meet Will already. I'm really pleased that didn't happen - that would have really annoyed me if he'd have appeared already.

Yes, our bad guy moving between worlds like he owned the place, " Dust " and why Mrs Coulter needs to keep a whole group of kids hidden amongst other things.... Why is Oxford flooded, and why give a 10 year old girl a fancy lie detector that is one of only 6 in the world, and not give her an instruction book.

 

[Seaber]

Personally, I had a horrible feeling we were all about to meet Will already. I'm really pleased that didn't happen - that would have really annoyed me if he'd have appeared already.

Will, as well as his mother and Grumman have all been cast, although I'm not sure if they'll appear in this series or the next, as series two has been commissioned. Fra Pavel has already appeared early, but identifiable leaders of the Magisterium are few and far between.

This is exactly where I am! I've read them all, but I only really remember Lyra's Oxford. When the series is over, I will go back and read the whole series from the start, including the tales. I hope they get worked into the series, somehow. There's scope, assuming they do 1 series per book and they continue on after the events of The Amber Spyglass.

The episode last night was a bit disappointing, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the Father seeing Lyra with Mrs Coulter, on the assumption that his character follows the arc of his equivalent in The Amber Spyglass. Seeing Boreal cross between worlds already is a surprise, but it has to hook people in and make them realise it's possible to move between worlds, as Asriel is intending to do. I think last night was a break from the books in a smallish way, but it was still a good watch and ultimately, the books are one thing. The TV series doesn't have to be a total carbon copy for it to be enjoyable.

I really liked how they handled Boreal in episode 2. First of all at the party him and Lyra did not meet to avoid the Sir Charles awkward plot hole thewould be created on TV but is conceivable in the books. Secondly, establishing windows and cross-worlds plotting this early sets up the plots from the rest of the series and establishes a bit of lore for the new audience to get to grips with. I've noticed a few lines of dialogue already from both episodes that add an element of foreshadowing that is subtle enough to pass by those not familiar with the stories, but hint at their arcs.

Is the Father in Coulter's apartment a replacement for Gomez? He's listed as Father Garret in the cast list.

I re-read them all when La Belle Sauvage came out, and it was the first time I read The Collector's ebook. I don't know if BBC/HBO own the rights to all the stories, but as the Great Flood and Scholastic Sanctuary are mentioned a lot, I think it's fair to say the Book of Dust may be within their rights. The Amber Spyglass could probably cover over eight episodes, so might run over two series which if La Belle Sauvage is adapted after that would mean Keen could be an appropriate age to play the older Lyra.

 

[Gwylan]

Is the Father in Coulter's apartment a replacement for Gomez? He's listed as Father Garret in the cast list.

A bit of trivia for those who haven't realised; the bloke who plays the other priest is Dafne Keen's real-life dad.

I've seen him on stage quite a few times - he always seems to play baddies. He's well cast in this

 

[vegster]

Will, as well as his mother and Grumman have all been cast, although I'm not sure if they'll appear in this series or the next, as series two has been commissioned. Fra Pavel has already appeared early, but identifiable leaders of the Magisterium are few and far between.



I really liked how they handled Boreal in episode 2. First of all at the party him and Lyra did not meet to avoid the Sir Charles awkward plot hole thewould be created on TV but is conceivable in the books. Secondly, establishing windows and cross-worlds plotting this early sets up the plots from the rest of the series and establishes a bit of lore for the new audience to get to grips with. I've noticed a few lines of dialogue already from both episodes that add an element of foreshadowing that is subtle enough to pass by those not familiar with the stories, but hint at their arcs.

Is the Father in Coulter's apartment a replacement for Gomez? He's listed as Father Garret in the cast list.

I re-read them all when La Belle Sauvage came out, and it was the first time I read The Collector's ebook. I don't know if BBC/HBO own the rights to all the stories, but as the Great Flood and Scholastic Sanctuary are mentioned a lot, I think it's fair to say the Book of Dust may be within their rights. The Amber Spyglass could probably cover over eight episodes, so might run over two series which if La Belle Sauvage is adapted after that would mean Keen could be an appropriate age to play the older Lyra.

And therein lies the problem ! I'm still none the wiser for wtf is going on, I might give it until the bear baiting but i'm not sure I can be bothered, this series is handy for Pullman's pension scheme though.

 

[London Irish]

I was a bit so so on episode 1 but ep 2 really took off. Fantasy probably not really my thing but as the BBC have spent loads of money and I'm in love with Ruth Wilson, what the heck

 

[Ninja Elephant]

Will, as well as his mother and Grumman have all been cast, although I'm not sure if they'll appear in this series or the next, as series two has been commissioned. Fra Pavel has already appeared early, but identifiable leaders of the Magisterium are few and far between.

I really liked how they handled Boreal in episode 2. First of all at the party him and Lyra did not meet to avoid the Sir Charles awkward plot hole thewould be created on TV but is conceivable in the books. Secondly, establishing windows and cross-worlds plotting this early sets up the plots from the rest of the series and establishes a bit of lore for the new audience to get to grips with. I've noticed a few lines of dialogue already from both episodes that add an element of foreshadowing that is subtle enough to pass by those not familiar with the stories, but hint at their arcs.

Is the Father in Coulter's apartment a replacement for Gomez? He's listed as Father Garret in the cast list.

I re-read them all when La Belle Sauvage came out, and it was the first time I read The Collector's ebook. I don't know if BBC/HBO own the rights to all the stories, but as the Great Flood and Scholastic Sanctuary are mentioned a lot, I think it's fair to say the Book of Dust may be within their rights. The Amber Spyglass could probably cover over eight episodes, so might run over two series which if La Belle Sauvage is adapted after that would mean Keen could be an appropriate age to play the older Lyra.

A man who knows his HDM stuff! I think I'm wrong about the Father, I thought it was Gomez but if he's listed as Garret either it's a different character altogether, or they've changed his name. We'll see either way. I did see the second series has already been commissioned, I didn't know that Will et al had been cast - I'd rather not see them already but it doesn't overly matter to me. The TV series doesn't need to follow the books exactly and considering the additional characters introduced in The Book of Dust, it's better to expand the story a bit to include those plot threads too.

Dafne Keen will definitely be of an age to play the older Lyra when it comes to the inevitable Book of Dust adaptation. She already looks a bit older than Lyra is at the start of Northern Lights - she is brilliant casting like the rest of them. It's being done properly, and with a proper budget.

And therein lies the problem ! I'm still none the wiser for wtf is going on, I might give it until the bear baiting but i'm not sure I can be bothered, this series is handy for Pullman's pension scheme though.

In what way is it a problem? You've seen two episodes of an 8 episode series, obviously you don't know all of what's happening yet. Calm down, enjoy the ride. Or don't - it really doesn't matter.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Oh, [MENTION=13055]Ninja Elephant[/MENTION], just coming to the end of book 5. FFS.

This music has some resonance (another thread reminded me....). For atmosphere. Maybe it's just me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDCZYqeNECk

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I'm about 500 pages into The Secret Commonwealth at the moment, no spoilers please! I'm not sure how I feel about Malcolm, just generally.

Another strong episode last night, I thought. Plenty of character development on John Faa and he feels like a very authentic leader of the Gyptian people, the relationship with Coram is spot on as well. The elevation of Boreal as a character of importance is interesting, he feels far more important to the series than he did in the books.

I think, so far, the writing is very in line with the book so far, and the changes really benefit the story and the flow of the storytelling for TV.