Hillsborough the search for the truth

[Acker79]

The Report | Home Office
Browse the disclosed material | Hillsborough Independent Panel

 

[Falkor]

This is so shocking

BREAKING NEWS The BBC's Nick Ravenscroft asks the panel how many people might have been saved if there had been a better emergency service response. Dr Bill Kirkup confirms that 28 people didn't have obstruction of bloodflow and 16 had heart and lung function. He concludes that there is evidence that 41 people in total had the potential to survive.

 

[Pavilionaire]

In addition to some of the misguided stewards and coppers I hope there are one or two former hooligans having some reflection time on how their actions led directly to the Hillborough tragedy. If there had been no hooliganism there would have been no Hillsborough.

 

[nwgull]

Hills borough the search for the truth

I hope the idiots who shared their pig-ignorance on this thread are listening to this. They should hang their sorry heads in shame.

How can you call people pig-ignorant prior to the report coming out? I am not ashamed to have speculated that the type of behaviour that was displayed by football fans during the 80s might have had an effect on how the police dealt with the crowd that day.

 

[backson]

Nice to see the Sun website giving this story the appropriate importance, by leading with a story on Kerry Katona

 

[perseus]

Without meaning to be insensitive, the removal of terracing from British football grounds was based on the concerns over safety and security from the Hillsborough tragedy. With the blame now lying firmly with the authorities on the day, surely this makes the Taylor Report a little bit null and void?

It was not really the Taylor Report that brought the end to standing. It might have hurried it along but the Taylor Report identified the trend and did not object to standing areas as intrinsically unsafe (although very large terraced areas are). Neither are most of the fans objecting to seating.


http://www.epcollege.com/EPC/media/MediaLibrary/Knowledge%20Hub%20Documents/F%20Inquiry%20Reports/Hillsborough-Taylor-Report.pdf?ext=.pdf

Taylor Report recommend that all-ticket matches should be confined to those at which a capacity or near capacity crowd is expected and that, having so designated them, clubs maintain a firm policy of not selling tickets at the match.

So the Taylor Report is not specifically against all-ticket either.

Times have changed. The causal nature of attending games and meeting your mates there is now gone. I don't miss standing in the rain though, preferable to sitting in puddles.

 

[The Large One]

How can you call people pig-ignorant prior to the report coming out? I am not ashamed to have speculated that the type of behaviour that was displayed by football fans during the 80s might have had an effect on how the police dealt with the crowd that day.

Because it was written (that Liverpool fans were not to blame) in the Taylor Report.

 

[Basil Fawlty]

Hopefully The Sun will do the decent thing and apologise for that disgusting Headline. THE TRUTH!

 

[Bwian]

It’s a different situation granted but highlights the culture amongst Liverpool fans at the time. I’m afraid the notion that drunk fans arriving late at Hillsborough were not intimidating the police preventing them entering the stadium and that a number of them weren’t there with the intention of causing trouble just doesn’t wash with me.

I agree with this post.

There were obviously many contributing factors to the tragic events of that day and the blame cannot be pinned on just one group but in my opinion each party needs to accept some of the blame and I’m afraid to say this includes a number of Liverpool fans, a large number of whom turned up without tickets when it would have been apparent very few tickets would be available on the day. It’s a horrible fact and one that many will not be prepared to accept but there had been a culture hooliganism amongst Liverpool fans and also a tendency for fans to turn up to matches without tickets on mass, this for me was more than likely a major factor in the disaster.

I don’t like to say it but I’m not afraid to but you only have to look at the behaviour of a minority of Liverpool fans at Heysel and the resulting deaths to see that there WAS an endemic problem with hooliganism amongst some of their fan base at the time. If we are willing to pin much of the blame on Liverpool fans there I’m not sure why there is so much reluctance to do so in the case of Hillsborough.

Whether the report dispelled this or not, I’ve read various accounts and draw my own conclusions. That’s not to say I feel I know more than an in depth report that takes into account evidence that’s not probably not in the public domain but just my opinion one that I’m entitled to.

Another point that is brought up each time this issue is discussed is would this tragedy have occurred had Liverpool not been playing that day? I suggest probably not but no one can argue with outdated stadia, poor policing methods and other factors it was a disaster waiting to happen. It’s a great shame it took the deaths of so many people to change football and pave the way for the safe experience we all enjoy at football today but at least there can be some positives from that awful day.

You don't seem to have much to say on this matter anymore.

 

[Hamilton]

In addition to some of the misguided stewards and coppers I hope there are one or two former hooligans having some reflection time on how their actions led directly to the Hillborough tragedy. If there had been no hooliganism there would have been no Hillsborough.

I understand what you are saying, and agree that hooligans should reflect on their actions.

However, what's true here is that crowds need proper control. Hillsborough did not happen because of hooliganism, it happened because the wrong decisions were made by those responsible for the crowd on the day.

It's wrong to connect the two. Because the authorities made mistakes this could have happened at a rock concert or a football ground. They then tried to cover it up.

 

[ROSM]

How can you call people pig-ignorant prior to the report coming out? I am not ashamed to have speculated that the type of behaviour that was displayed by football fans during the 80s might have had an effect on how the police dealt with the crowd that day.

What has been released today covers the medical evidence, the scale of the coverup and the attempts to impune guilt on the victim and the families and also how much the government were the victims rather than the cause of the cover up.

What isnt new today is that the circumstances you refer to have been proven to not the the cause of the problem. That was already proven in the Taylor report that many on here have spent YEARS trying to get the succession of people spouting that smear to read. the continued inability/ unwillingness for people to read that document should be counted as Pig -ignorance.

 

[Bwian]

Remember this game well on the box,also i remember the ground was packed solid and i can assure you there was thousands of fans outside the gates trying to barge through.I would dread to think how many people were in that end as it was way way more than it should,ve been and still loads trying to get in.

Liverpool fans in my opinion were a major factor in this terrible tragedy,you can't blame the police for this im afraid,nobody will put there hands up and admit mistakes though.

Care to comment now?

 

[Dub-67]

That Sun front page is shocking. They need to grovel. A full front page apology.

 

[nwgull]

Hills borough the search for the truth

Because it was written (that Liverpool fans were not to blame) in the Taylor Report.

I thought that the Taylor Report did not give the whole account of the events, hence the significance of today's release of documents.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Well Bwian - long-standing NSC posters know your views on the events at Hillsborough despite scepticism on here (some of it probably from me). You can rest easy today old son.

 

[Bwian]

I understand what you are saying, and agree that hooligans should reflect on their actions.

However, what's true here is that crowds need proper control. Hillsborough did not happen because of hooliganism, it happened because the wrong decisions were made by those responsible for the crowd on the day.

It's wrong to connect the two. Because the authorities made mistakes this could have happened at a rock concert or a football ground. They then tried to cover it up.

As anybody who was at Selhurst 'that' night when the moronic Met Police officers treated Albion fans with utter contempt and forced ALL of us into a narrow subway that had the potential to be another tragedy. Police need to be trained properly before they are allowed anywhere near a football crowd. That's after they've all had their shitty attitude towards football fans surgically removed.

 

[Gazwag]

Liverpool fans won't !!!!

Jumped in a bit quick there considering your ground and its owners at the time now takes part of the blame

 

[Surrey_Albion]

Because it was written (that Liverpool fans were not to blame) in the Taylor Report.

So just to get this straight in my head the thousand odd people without tickets who forced there way in the ground have absolutly no guilt at all now, it was just the emergency services fault

 

[Gazwag]

As anybody who was at Selhurst 'that' night when the moronic Met Police officers treated Albion fans with utter contempt and forced ALL of us into a narrow subway that had the potential to be another tragedy. Police need to be trained properly before they are allowed anywhere near a football crowd. That's after they've all had their shitty attitude towards football fans surgically removed.

Peterborough in the cup could have quite easily gone that way as well, not that that is police fault maybe more the club by letting in too many fans

 

[Bwian]

Well Bwian - long-standing NSC posters know your views on the events at Hillsborough despite scepticism on here (some of it probably from me). You can rest easy today old son.

Still awaiting the main gobshites to show they have the bollocks to admit that they have been wrong. It won't happen but that tells the world more about them than the people they've been slandering/libelling for years.