Hillsborough & the Police Federation

[Northstandite]

It's a very complax situation and unless you know the full facts of what actually happened you should just keep you opinions to your selves.

Do you honestly think all those police officers and medical staff are the scene were not doing their utmost to save lives?

Don't you think it strange that all those apologies heard on the TV today have used the word 'profoundly'. Has everybody been told what to say and isn't this a cover up 23 years after the event?

There are no winners.

S Yorks Police heads, Coronor, and Ambulence Service heads, all avoided prison and personal financial ruin.

They won.

 

[grummitts gloves]

Not one policeman has gone to jail over Cardiff, Birmingham or Guilford. The police should not investigate themselves. Some things have to be a red line, we pay for the police service and their service is so vital that standards have to be protected.

Try looking at Independent Police Complaints Commission

 

[Beach Hut]

I assume the FA should be charged as well as the ground had no safety certificate yet they made the decision to play the game there.

 

[clapham_gull]

The most shocking aspect for me isn't the original cover up but the fact that the cover up has been maintained for so long.

Surely one official would have found the strength to break ranks ?

Nope.....

Shocking.

 

[Working class pride]

IPCC?Are you in the police? Track record of Guilford 4, Birmingham 6, Cardiff and Hillsborough with not one successful prosecution. I stress I am not anti the police, they are vital and have a dangerous job also.

But for their qualifications they are extremely well paid and a crime committed by a policeman is so dangerous to us all that we have to have an active police force that investigates the police and conducts under cover operations that would have discovered years ago lies told in the Yorkshire Police.

Look at cardiff, it is suspected by many that that the local force in Cardiff deliberately bungles that prosecution.

 

[drew]

It's clear that Working Class Pride has, despite what he says, an agenda against the Police. He thinks they are overpaid because they aren't intelligent but neglects to consider that they have to put themselves in the frontline. There are some 'loose cannons' but the majority do a good job. Even on the day at Hillsborough, the police on the ground were helping with the injured and were let down by their superiors decisions on the day and what subsequently happened.

With regard to hanging out to dry officers who, at the time where in the junior ranks is laughable as others have implied. Furthermore, I have to say I haven't seen all the altered statements but has it been suggested that the rank and file actually lied or, as I understand it, that the comments taken out of their statements were their opinions of what went wrong and were critical of senior officers and decisions.

For me, the biggest question is how far up the political scale did knowledge that the early statements by the senior police officers were untrue and who at that level decided not to uncover that. Maybe the Tory government at the time owed a debt to the Yorkshire constabulary for events that went on at the start of that decade!!!!

 

[Gullys Cats]

Yes and yes!.

 

[GT49er]

Maybe the Tory government at the time owed a debt to the Yorkshire constabulary for events that went on at the start of that decade!!!!

And that might just be a very good shout!

 

[Working class pride]

It's clear that Working Class Pride has, despite what he says, an agenda against the Police. He thinks they are overpaid because they aren't intelligent but neglects to consider that they have to put themselves in the frontline. There are some 'loose cannons' but the majority do a good job. Even on the day at Hillsborough, the police on the ground were helping with the injured and were let down by their superiors decisions on the day and what subsequently happened.

With regard to hanging out to dry officers who, at the time where in the junior ranks is laughable as others have implied. Furthermore, I have to say I haven't seen all the altered statements but has it been suggested that the rank and file actually lied or, as I understand it, that the comments taken out of their statements were their opinions of what went wrong and were critical of senior officers and decisions.

For me, the biggest question is how far up the political scale did knowledge that the early statements by the senior police officers were untrue and who at that level decided not to uncover that. Maybe the Tory government at the time owed a debt to the Yorkshire constabulary for events that went on at the start of that decade!!!!

1. I have no agenda against the police, I do recognise the job is for some of the police in some areas of the country dangerous.
2. Yes - I do think the pay, conditions and pension poor value for us taxpayers. I think the same of fireman and also think how we provide education needs to be overhauled also but self interested trade unions will fight tooth and nail to do the right thing.
3. I agree the politicians have much to answer for but it has been found that the Police Federation (rank and file officers) plotted in a restaurant in Sheffield with the chief constable to tell lies and pervert the course of justice.
4. The police's job is so vital and potentially open to corruption that there has to be a police force to keep close watch on them and have active investigations so to uncover wrong doing like in the Guilford, Birmingham, Cardiff and this case.
5. Not one policeman has been convicted following Guilford, Birmingham or Cardiff. When someone attempts to pervert the course of justice then prosecuting them is not hanging anyone out to dry, it is call law enforcement on a vital public service.

 

[Simster]

We don't need a witch hunt - the damage has already been done. The only people who ought to be in trouble are the people who made the decisions, not the junior officers who were in all likelihood pressurised to change their statements. And I think people need to remember the background back then - there were some nasty fuckers who followed football teams in those days, and the police had long since got tired of policing football matches as if they were at a prison rather than a day out. It would have been very easy for a junior officer to swallow the bullshit from a superior back then before doctoring his statement if a superior had laid it on thick with rhetoric such as "football supporters need to realise that their actions have consequences. Why should we cop the flack, we're not the ones fighting each other?"

Perhaps the procedures could be altered, so that witness statements are protected and ring fenced, and not directly available to those in charge? I haven't thought it through and don't know the current procedure, but clearly it doesn't work. I think this would be a far more fitting tribute to the 96 than the banging up of a handful of junior officers.

 

[StillHateBellotti]

The trouble is I suspect younger officers who changed statements under pressure from superiors may still be around the elders who made them do this are long gone.

I think you will find the statements provided by the officers were correct and factual but were then redacted by the CPS and senior management.

Shit normally rolls downwards but I hope for this one one Senior Management or Retired Senior officers who oversaw the changing of statements face the force of the law.

 

[junior]

So did the government only recently find all these papers that were released yesterday? If the answer to that is NO, then shurly the government (all prime ministers since the event) need to be held to account as well for keeping these facts hidden?

I presume all these documents/information has been gathered SINCE the Taylor Inquiry? If so, how has it been kept a secret and by whom? If it was all known BEFORE then inquiry then again, how and who kept it a secret?

 

[Mo Gosfield]

We don't need a witch hunt - the damage has already been done. The only people who ought to be in trouble are the people who made the decisions, not the junior officers who were in all likelihood pressurised to change their statements. And I think people need to remember the background back then - there were some nasty fuckers who followed football teams in those days, and the police had long since got tired of policing football matches as if they were at a prison rather than a day out. It would have been very easy for a junior officer to swallow the bullshit from a superior back then before doctoring his statement if a superior had laid it on thick with rhetoric such as "football supporters need to realise that their actions have consequences. Why should we cop the flack, we're not the ones fighting each other?"

The police did have an unenviable job policing football in the 70's and 80's. For whatever reason, there were hundreds if not thousands of Liverpool fans outside Hillsborough after kick-off. Other gates were opened ( some in the North Stand as well as Leppings Lane ) to ease the crush. There were clearly serious fears for trouble brewing outside the ground. When you watch the CCTV the gates are opened at the Leppings Lane end at 15.04 and they pour through and onto the terracing. This was a standing only section and the majority of fans seen on CCTV all head for this particular gate. The police clearly made a fundamental and fatal error in opening this particular gate. If there were any ticketless fans outside, they would all have been tempted to enter this gate, as there was no ticket checking taking place and it was standing only.
It would appear that there were so many fans still outside the ground after kick-off that a general instruction was issued to open as many gates as possible, without giving too much thought to the consequences. This may be ok for designated seated areas e.g the North Stand but for standing areas such as Leppings Lane, it was inviting trouble.
I have never seen pictures before or since of so many people trying to get into a ground, after kick-off. It is hard to believe that all these people were ticket-holders but ticketless and drunken fans have been exonerated of all blame, so we have to believe that they were all genuine ticket-holders.
Those responsible for appalling and fatal decisions have to be brought to justice but how many are still around to face the music?

 

[Simster]

I have never seen pictures before or since of so many people trying to get into a ground, after kick-off. It is hard to believe that all these people were ticket-holders but ticketless and drunken fans have been exonerated of all blame, so we have to believe that they were all genuine ticket-holders.
Those responsible for appalling and fatal decisions have to be brought to justice but how many are still around to face the music?

You don't have to believe that at all. It could be there were hundreds of ticketless fans, but then that begs the question why the police didn't set up road blocks preventing ticketless fans getting within 200m of the stadium. That stuff wouldn't have been rocket science, and even back then was a crowd control tactic routinely used.

 

[Falkor]

I assume the FA should be charged as well as the ground had no safety certificate yet they made the decision to play the game there.

I read the report it actually did have a safety certificate it was issued many years before and was for indefinite period.

The issue is the FA new of safety concerns as did Sheff Wed there are tones of answer that need answering.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

YES.

Yes they should.

 

[Paddy B]

I voted yes, but I suspect they wont and you can understand why with possible criminal preceedings to follow.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

You don't have to believe that at all. It could be there were hundreds of ticketless fans, but then that begs the question why the police didn't set up road blocks preventing ticketless fans getting within 200m of the stadium. That stuff wouldn't have been rocket science, and even back then was a crowd control tactic routinely used.

According to the documentary the other night it was used at the same end of the same ground at the previous years semi-final. There was no excuse for it not being done.

 

[Basil Fawlty]

When the Inquest gets reopened, maybe prosecution also get dished out to those responsible. Then maybe we might see a apology from the Police Federation, but I'm not holding my breath.