Heysel

[Lenny Rider]

Everton fans I know feel it stopped them becoming a long time major force at both home and abroad. The whole history of domestic football could have been re written.

 

[Man of Harveys]

Partly because, it was a tiny, old decrepit stadium.

It held 60,000 people. It had hosted another big game shortly beforehand without any incident whatsoever. This constant reiteration about the state of the stadium is, IMHO, utterly irrelevant to the fact that those Juve fans died and if people aren't using it as an pretty tawdry excuse, then people should stop mentioning it as an explanation. They died because of xenophobia and hooliganism.

 

[Milano]

I'm not LFC fan but this annoys me so a few points:

Heysel was tragic. I remember being sickened as I watched it on the telly, I was 18.
Heysel doesn't get the same fans acknowledgment (e.g. minutes silence etc) because its anniversary is always outside the domestic season.
Little known/talked about fact is that of the 39 tragically killed 2 were Liverpool fans. I haven't a clue if they are on a plaque at Anfield, I believe there is some memorial at Anfield for Heysel (might be wrong).
They died because a wall collapsed at a stadium not fit to hold the event.
No one mentions the continued rioting of the Juve fans before and after the tragedy. One Juve fan is shown with a gun!
I remember the eighties. This could have happened almost anywhere to any English club. The year before Spurs had run riot. It was a mad time. You can't compare it to today and if you were not going to football in the early/mid eighties then sorry but you cannot have a CLUE what it was like and therefore your opinion of events back then are moot IMO. It was 99.9% male and VERY aggressive.
As for Everton fans, maybe/maybe not but god do they still like to moan about it. Most of them that do weren't born when it happened.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Little known/talked about fact is that of the 39 tragically killed 2 were Liverpool fans. I haven't a clue if they are on a plaque at Anfield, I believe there is some memorial at Anfield for Heysel (might be wrong).

I was not aware that two Liverpool fans died at Heysel and that is the very point. So very little is talked about it. I was always under the impression that it was all Juve fans who had died.

 

[SAC]

I'm not LFC fan but this annoys me so a few points:

Heysel was tragic. I remember being sickened as I watched it on the telly, I was 18.
Heysel doesn't get the same fans acknowledgment (e.g. minutes silence etc) because its anniversary is always outside the domestic season.
Little known/talked about fact is that of the 39 tragically killed 2 were Liverpool fans. I haven't a clue if they are on a plaque at Anfield, I believe there is some memorial at Anfield for Heysel (might be wrong).
They died because a wall collapsed at a stadium not fit to hold the event.
No one mentions the continued rioting of the Juve fans before and after the tragedy. One Juve fan is shown with a gun!
I remember the eighties. This could have happened almost anywhere to any English club. The year before Spurs had run riot. It was a mad time. You can't compare it to today and if you were not going to football in the early/mid eighties then sorry but you cannot have a CLUE what it was like and therefore your opinion of events back then are moot IMO. It was 99.9% male and VERY aggressive.
As for Everton fans, maybe/maybe not but god do they still like to moan about it. Most of them that do weren't born when it happened.

Of course they moan. They may be Everton fans but they are still from Liverpool, moaning is their raison d’être, or reason for being as they say in France.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

To satisfy myself of the facts, I have just looked up details on Heysel...as follows.
Of the 39 who died
1) 32 were Italian ( including two minors )
2) 4 were Belgian
3) 2 were French
4) 1 was from N.Ireland
On 26th May 2010, a permanent plaque in memory of Heysel was unveiled on the Centenary Stand at Anfield, 25 years after the event.

 

[Bwian]

That's a crock of shit.

Look at who posted it.

 

[drew]

I have always been puzzled by the lack of attention re Heysel. If my memory serves me correct, it was all Italians that died in the tragedy and it was directly caused by Liverpool fans charging another section containing Juve supporters. A wall collapsed and many were crushed/suffocated. As a result of this, English clubs were banned from Europe for a period of time and UEFA were forced to review where they staged major finals and the safety/security of these grounds.
The tragedy had a massive impact on football, both here and in Europe. English clubs lost the revenue from competing in the major European club tournament and our game lost ground against our European rivals, who continued to compete against each other, learn from each other and get better. In England, our game stagnated for a number of years, as a result of this.
Hillsborough dominates recent football tragedies due to the number of deaths involved and the circumstances surrounding those deaths. It is never out of the public gaze. It is regularly in the media. It prompted the Taylor report and the subsequent improvement of English league grounds, as well as highlighting actions and issues within the police force that were totally unacceptable.
I may be in a minority but I feel that Heysel had more impact on football in general. EUFA were far more careful in their management of the game and clubs throughout Europe started to upgrade their stadia, slowly in some cases but at least it was a move in the right direction. It could also be argued that Heysel had a direct effect on the creation of the Premier League. The English game had fallen behind the continent during the ' banned ' years. The powers to be wanted to play catch-up and get more glamour and money and prestige back into our game. They wanted our top clubs back in Europe regularly and they wanted those clubs to get stronger. Along came Rupert Murdoch and hey presto.
All those that died at Hillsborough were Liverpool fans and the families rightly felt aggrieved that more could have been done to save lives. They want to keep remembering and they want the rest of the footballing family to share their grief. Heysel does get overlooked and it shouldn't. It was typical of the ugliness and brutality that embodied our football in the 70's and 80's and it culminated in hundreds of drunken and aggressive Liverpool fans charging a much smaller number of Juve fans and causing nearly 40 deaths. In terms of lives lost, it was smaller than Hillsborough, Ibrox and Bradford but it still had a massive impact.
Is it because they were Italians. Not one of us. The grief is further away from home. It can almost be swept under the carpet until someone raises the topic and then lip service is paid to it. It was on foreign shores, it doesn't matter as much and anyway, Hillsborough is much more important. I just don't know. What I do know is that the whole thing doesn't sit right with me.
Hillsborough is constantly remembered and the dead at Bradford were honoured with applause recently. Heysel is as important if not more important than these and should not be allowed to disappear off the radar. Some Liverpool fans might wish to turn a blind eye to those events in Belgium ( some may have been at both events, involved in the charge at Heysel and also involved in entering the ground late at Hillsborough ) but the rest of us should pay the dead of Heysel the respect they deserve and analyse and acknowledge the impact it had on football.

You seem to be suggesting that the authorities formed the Premier League in order to assist the top clubs in competing with the best in Europe. I think you will find the underlying reason for the formation of the PL was to prevent the top clubs breaking away and forming a European super league and for those very same clubs to control a larger share of the revenues!

As for Hillsborough, the effect on domestic football was the introduction of all seater stadia

 

[El Presidente]

Look at who posted it.

Noted.

By all means people can criticise Liverpool fans for the hypocrisy over the way they used to gleefully celebrate the Munich air disaster whenever playing United prior to Hillsborough, the intimidation of away fans at both Anfield and Goodison, the way some have undermined the safe standing campaign by claiming it disrespects the 96, the bloated number of local law firms representing the victims families at the current enquiry and the enthusiastic way those lawyers (unless they are doing the work pro bono) are draining the public purse (although South Yorkshire Police and Dukinfield's deniers are equally culpable), but to blame the fans for the tragedy is way out of line. It's a story that is totally discredited and exists only in the fetid mind of a Kelvin MacKenzie and his cronies.

Anyone who went to big matches in those days knows how easily a crush could form, either when a goal was scored, an opposition firm tried to take a home end, or simple overcrowding and poor stewarding from those paid to protect the public.

The vast majority of people from Merseyside are honest, hard working, compassionate, genuinely funny and supportive of their community. The area has suffered due to cultural, economic and industrial change and decay, but no person who sent their sons, brothers, fathers and friends to that match deserved to have to identify their bodies, or read the demonisation of their loved ones by lazy, vindictive and politically motivated journalists and police.

The Heysel tragedy is not ignored on Merseyside, it's just less personal, just as Hillsborough is less personal to Nottingham Forest fans, who were the other team playing in that FA Cup semi final in 1989, because it wasn't their families who lost relatives.

 

[GT49er]

Noted.

By all means people can criticise Liverpool fans for the hypocrisy over the way they used to gleefully celebrate the Munich air disaster whenever playing United prior to Hillsborough, the intimidation of away fans at both Anfield and Goodison, the way some have undermined the safe standing campaign by claiming it disrespects the 96, the bloated number of local law firms representing the victims families at the current enquiry and the enthusiastic way those lawyers (unless they are doing the work pro bono) are draining the public purse (although South Yorkshire Police and Dukinfield's deniers are equally culpable), but to blame the fans for the tragedy is way out of line. It's a story that is totally discredited and exists only in the fetid mind of a Kelvin MacKenzie and his cronies.

Anyone who went to big matches in those days knows how easily a crush could form, either when a goal was scored, an opposition firm tried to take a home end, or simple overcrowding and poor stewarding from those paid to protect the public.

The vast majority of people from Merseyside are honest, hard working, compassionate, genuinely funny and supportive of their community. The area has suffered due to cultural, economic and industrial change and decay, but no person who sent their sons, brothers, fathers and friends to that match deserved to have to identify their bodies, or read the demonisation of their loved ones by lazy, vindictive and politically motivated journalists and police.

The Heysel tragedy is not ignored on Merseyside, it's just less personal, just as Hillsborough is less personal to Nottingham Forest fans, who were the other team playing in that FA Cup semi final in 1989, because it wasn't their families who lost relatives.

Hear hear!

 

[Southern Scouse]

That'll be the same sort of 'partial responsibilities' as the Liverpool fans at Hillsborough turning up drunk without tickets and trying to force their way into the game? But of course that goes down like a sack of bricks whenever anyone brings that up.

When I read you post It made me understand why so many people, for so long have been trying to get justice for those that died.
If it had been man utd or palace I would have still have supported them in their fight for the truth. Shanks was correct on most things, but a few things are more important.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

The Liverpool Echo is banging on about Hillsborough for all its worth since the new inquest started, but there doesn't appear to be anything recently about Heysel on its web site.

 

[MarioOrlandi]

That'll be the same sort of 'partial responsibilities' as the Liverpool fans at Hillsborough turning up drunk without tickets and trying to force their way into the game? But of course that goes down like a sack of bricks whenever anyone brings that up.

Agree with this

 

[lawros left foot]

Liverpool had played in Rome the year before Heysel, and a fair few of their fans had been stabbed, bottled etc. At Heysel a lot of scousers were determined to get their retaliation in first, the Belgium OB were unprepared for that amount of aggression, and this led, unfortunately to the tragedy that unfolded. With Hillsborough, it could have been any football club with a large number of fans, we, as a group were treated like criminals by the authorities, many of us have stories of the old bill causing trouble, not trying to prevent it, and, while anyone who was going to football then would admit,some supporters weren't excactly angels, a lot of us unfairly were tarred with the same brush

 

[MarioOrlandi]

I have always been puzzled by the lack of attention re Heysel. If my memory serves me correct, it was all Italians that died in the tragedy and it was directly caused by Liverpool fans charging another section containing Juve supporters. A wall collapsed and many were crushed/suffocated. As a result of this, English clubs were banned from Europe for a period of time and UEFA were forced to review where they staged major finals and the safety/security of these grounds.
The tragedy had a massive impact on football, both here and in Europe. English clubs lost the revenue from competing in the major European club tournament and our game lost ground against our European rivals, who continued to compete against each other, learn from each other and get better. In England, our game stagnated for a number of years, as a result of this.
Hillsborough dominates recent football tragedies due to the number of deaths involved and the circumstances surrounding those deaths. It is never out of the public gaze. It is regularly in the media. It prompted the Taylor report and the subsequent improvement of English league grounds, as well as highlighting actions and issues within the police force that were totally unacceptable.
I may be in a minority but I feel that Heysel had more impact on football in general. EUFA were far more careful in their management of the game and clubs throughout Europe started to upgrade their stadia, slowly in some cases but at least it was a move in the right direction. It could also be argued that Heysel had a direct effect on the creation of the Premier League. The English game had fallen behind the continent during the ' banned ' years. The powers to be wanted to play catch-up and get more glamour and money and prestige back into our game. They wanted our top clubs back in Europe regularly and they wanted those clubs to get stronger. Along came Rupert Murdoch and hey presto.
All those that died at Hillsborough were Liverpool fans and the families rightly felt aggrieved that more could have been done to save lives. They want to keep remembering and they want the rest of the footballing family to share their grief. Heysel does get overlooked and it shouldn't. It was typical of the ugliness and brutality that embodied our football in the 70's and 80's and it culminated in hundreds of drunken and aggressive Liverpool fans charging a much smaller number of Juve fans and causing nearly 40 deaths. In terms of lives lost, it was smaller than Hillsborough, Ibrox and Bradford but it still had a massive impact.
Is it because they were Italians. Not one of us. The grief is further away from home. It can almost be swept under the carpet until someone raises the topic and then lip service is paid to it. It was on foreign shores, it doesn't matter as much and anyway, Hillsborough is much more important. I just don't know. What I do know is that the whole thing doesn't sit right with me.
Hillsborough is constantly remembered and the dead at Bradford were honoured with applause recently. Heysel is as important if not more important than these and should not be allowed to disappear off the radar. Some Liverpool fans might wish to turn a blind eye to those events in Belgium ( some may have been at both events, involved in the charge at Heysel and also involved in entering the ground late at Hillsborough ) but the rest of us should pay the dead of Heysel the respect they deserve and analyse and acknowledge the impact it had on football.

Very well put Mo

 

[Thunder Bolt]

That'll be the same sort of 'partial responsibilities' as the Liverpool fans at Hillsborough turning up drunk without tickets and trying to force their way into the game? But of course that goes down like a sack of bricks whenever anyone brings that up.

You wanted a reaction. You got one.

 

[blue-shifted]

I've got no special knowledge of either disaster or no particular axe to grind with Liverpudlians, but the way I always think of it, is this.

In the mid 90's I remember being in the middle of the North Stand at the Goldstone as a teenager and sometimes being terrified, (but loving the buzz) that sometimes there were crowd surges which meant I had no control at all about what happened to me. Now I think those involved, me included, were just being a bit boisterous with no bad intent, but in a scaled up environment things could have got seriously out of hand. Now Liverpool fans in the Heysel / Hillsborough era (I think I can non-controversially say) are generally a more drunk, abrasive lot than us, supporting football in a more hostile era. For these reasons, it's very hard for me to imagine, that Liverpool fans are as blameless as Andy Burnham and the Justice groups etc make out.

 

[Superphil]

I must admit that I always remember Heysal. I don't think Liverpool fans forget it, more of a deep feeling of sadness and the knowledge that we (collective LFC fans) are partly responsible.
.

Partly responsible for what?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Wasn't "that end" at Heysel 1 part Juve, a small gap, then 2 parts Liverpool fans?

think it was, NO ob, the scally's went straight through and the Italians bottled it and got crushed TRAGICALLY, always been bad blood when ENGLAND and ITALY have played, REMEMBER THE ONE AT THE OLYMPIC STADIUM when England fans tried to go through the OB lines to get at them,
regards
DR

 

[Mo Gosfield]

For these reasons, it's very hard for me to imagine, that Liverpool fans are as blameless as Andy Burnham and the Justice groups etc make out.[/QUOTE]


Me too.
Liverpool were by far the most successful English club through the 70's and 80's and attracted vast popular support. Every other fairweather JCL tied his colours to their mast and revelled in unbridled glory. Trophy after trophy came their way.
I watched a lot of football in that era and had the misfortune to witness appalling acts of hooliganism ,thuggery and awful boorish behaviour in the name of football supporting. At the top of this pile of human embarrassment were Leeds, Millwall, Cardiff, Chelsea, West Ham and Liverpool. The last named had the largest travelling support ( only Man.U were close ) and they descended on venues in their thousands, with or without tickets. Many of them were determined to get into grounds, using whatever means they could, whether that meant robbing and beating up touts, scaling walls and fences, sliding under turnstiles etc. It was fair game. They weren't the only ones to do it, its just that they did it in very large numbers.
Liverpool fans in that era had a reputation for turning up late, in force and often ticketless.
Before kick-off at Hillsborough, there were still thousands outside and creating enormous pressure. Many had emptied out of local pubs and bars minutes before kick-off and expected to get straight into the ground. When they got there and saw the queues and the crush, it was every man for himself and extra pressure was put on stewards and police to open gates. This doesn't condone the subsequent decision making process by those in charge and the terrible consequences that ensued.
There has to be an element of culpability from those that rushed into the Leppings Lane End and used force to push down from the back. It happened regularly at grounds then, anyway, with surges and crushes from the back. Some fans thought that it was great fun to instigate these and watch people getting swept along, feet off the ground or wrapped over/around crash barriers. They would have seen nothing wrong in their actions at the Leppings Lane End. Their only thought was getting a view of the game and no-one was getting in their way. It wasn't their fault that too many had been let into that section. All they did was make the situation worse.