[Misc] Here We Go Again - Breaking News Florida Shooting At High School

[Stat Brother]

 

[clarkey]

How on earth this has become normal, or 'the world we now live in'?

I know we are outside the states and I have little idea of how ingrained guns are in their culture but it just seems incredible that this is the chosen solution to the school shooting problem.

I've spent a fair amount of the past year in the US, partly up North in Michigan, partly down south in Georgia. In Michigan, they were largely interested in our views in their gun laws - fully anticipating my verdict that the rest of the world doesn't operate the same way, and that we all think it's insane. They knew we thought that way. Most of them owned guns, but admitted that that's a product of the system - because everyone has a gun, they need to have one just in case.

Down South I was absolutely horrified how different it was. They discuss guns so frequently it's just a normal part of life, and almost a part of their identity. And we're talking well educated kids in their 20s, with decent jobs and qualifications etc. They would just openly discuss what firearm they're looking to buy at the weekend, how they're looking forward to going out and using it etc. The way we might discuss a new phone or watch, that's how they talk about guns. Most of them knew people who carried a handgun in their rucksack at school. I had to volunteer the information to them, that nowhere in the developed world operates like that and the rest of the world finds it disgusting and shocking that it's so entrenched in their culture. They basically found my comments insulting, or failed to comprehend my angle at all.

 

[Stat Brother]

Every time I think 'this is definitely the last random tweet I repost'.

Then another one comes along:-

[tweet]963978544295505922[/tweet]

I will try harder to make this the last one.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Every time I think 'this is definitely the last random tweet I repost'.

Then another one comes along:-

I will try harder to make this the last one.

As Eddie Izzard said regarding the NRA's 'guns don't kill people, people kill people'...

"surely the gun helps?"

 

[clarkey]

While I'm having a slow morning at work, 2 more observations from my time in the US recently:

1) On the whole they really are quite simple people - even the educated ones have little to no initiative, creativity etc. They perform jobs like robots - very mechanical, no independent thought.
2) They are incredibly insular and isolated - they have almost no knowledge of the outside world. Not many leave the country, and if they do they keep it local (Canada, Carribean etc). And all their news channels are so US-centric that they have virtually no knowledge of other countries and cultures. They don't think their gun laws are extraordinary, because they don't know they are. They absolutely expect everyone in the UK to be carrying guns and having the same levels of gun crime they do - because they don't get any news from outside the US, they don't see any evidence to disprove this so continue in their assumption that it's the case.

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

 

[Stat Brother]

View attachment 94262

Perfectly illustrated by this link:-

[video]https://link.theplatform.com/s/7wvmTC/OMyhTk0GvCwb?MBR=TRUE&format=redirect&Tracking=true&Embedded=true&formats=MPEG4[/video]

Senator Rubio (?) quickly came out with the usual rubbish, someone replied to his tweet:-

'$3.3m received in campaign donations from the NRA'.

Give me duck ponds and moots any day of the week.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

While I'm having a slow morning at work, 2 more observations from my time in the US recently:

1) On the whole they really are quite simple people - even the educated ones have little to no initiative, creativity etc. They perform jobs like robots - very mechanical, no independent thought.
2) They are incredibly insular and isolated - they have almost no knowledge of the outside world. Not many leave the country, and if they do they keep it local (Canada, Carribean etc). And all their news channels are so US-centric that they have virtually no knowledge of other countries and cultures. They don't think their gun laws are extraordinary, because they don't know they are. They absolutely expect everyone in the UK to be carrying guns and having the same levels of gun crime they do - because they don't get any news from outside the US, they don't see any evidence to disprove this so continue in their assumption that it's the case.

Absolutely. And, as Mrs T just said, this 'sounds like North Korea'.

I could say quite a few things on this thread, most of which are in agreement with our loony friend, albeit with a different nuance. I'll keep it brief:

1. US gun laws won't change because a majority like it that way.
2. The minority need to grow some if they don't like it.
3. If you are not prepared to pay so your local school has armed security, and perhaps including arming every teacher, then don't complain later if there is a rampage.
4. If you are not prepared to arm your teachers then mobilize protest. You can't sit on your hands.
5. If more people carried guns then more people would be able to protect themselves. This is an argument that, if false, needs to be shown to be false at every opportunity. Or else it becomes a fact and, along with whatever amendment it is, the status quo will be immutable.

Very hard to export one's own values into another place or time to judge the people there.

Personally I think Americans are mad, but there again, they probably think I'm short of cash, spend far too much time travelling to and from work, and have 'English' teeth.

 

[Westdene Wonder]

How long before one of the armed teachers turns the gun on the class?

The gun culture in America is utter madness.

Trump is going to the area to say action must be taken to ensure treatment will be given to ensure these actions by mentally ill people will be introduced, however these people will still be able to buy guns,so says the person who is receiving huge amounts from the gun lobby

 

[clippedgull]

FBI ignored a phone call about Florida school shooter on Jan 5th

In a statement, the FBI said a person close to Nikolas Cruz contacted its tipline to report concerns about him on January 5.

The caller provided information about Cruz’s gun ownership, desire to kill people, erratic behaviour, and disturbing social media posts, as well as the potential of him conducting a school shooting, it said.

The FBI statement said: "Under established protocols, the information provided by the caller should have been assessed as a potential threat to life."

The FBI said the information reported about Cruz should have passed to its field office in Miami but "these protocols were not followed" and there was no further investigation.

FBI director Christopher Wray said: “I am committed to getting to the bottom of what happened in this particular matter, as well as reviewing our processes for responding to information that we receive from the public.

"It’s up to all Americans to be vigilant, and when members of the public contact us with concerns, we must act properly and quickly.

“We have spoken with victims and families, and deeply regret the additional pain this causes all those affected by this horrific tragedy."

 

[Biscuit Barrel]

Trump is going to the area to say action must be taken to ensure treatment will be given to ensure these actions by mentally ill people will be introduced, however these people will still be able to buy guns,so says the person who is receiving huge amounts from the gun lobby

All countries have people with mental health issues. Only America has regular school shootings.

Mental health is not the problem here. The accessibility of guns is.

 

[ShivasIrons]

The reason Americans are so isolated is we are so far from Europe and there is not much to offer in mexico but beaches and The USA is Big land and population. We have 53 MSA's over 1 million people. The UK has 13. Birmingham your 2nd largest metro area would rank 17th in the USA. The gun debate in America has been settled we have over 300 million guns and getting them back is not happening ( I wish it would)

 

[BadFish]

Absolutely. And, as Mrs T just said, this 'sounds like North Korea'.

I could say quite a few things on this thread, most of which are in agreement with our loony friend, albeit with a different nuance. I'll keep it brief:

1. US gun laws won't change because a majority like it that way.
2. The minority need to grow some if they don't like it.

I have posted a few links to polls suggesting that the majority would like stricter background checks for firearms. So without evidence to the contrary i would dispute this.

3. If you are not prepared to pay so your local school has armed security, and perhaps including arming every teacher, then don't complain later if there is a rampage.
4. If you are not prepared to arm your teachers then mobilize protest. You can't sit on your hands.
5. If more people carried guns then more people would be able to protect themselves. This is an argument that, if false, needs to be shown to be false at every opportunity. Or else it becomes a fact and, along with whatever amendment it is, the status quo will be immutable.

These are certainly solutions to the problems. Are they the best solutions? I would argue not.

Very hard to export one's own values into another place or time to judge the people there.

This may explain why the US does not make changes to its laws, although it doesn't stop those changes from being the best action to take to solve the problem. Perhaps in this case our view is much clearer than those in the middle of it whose logic and good sense is muddied by their values and culture.

Personally I think Americans are mad, but there again, they probably think I'm short of cash, spend far too much time travelling to and from work, and have 'English' teeth.

If the polls I have posted are to be believed then it isn't the Americans that are mad as they would like tighter controls. Perhaps the majority need to grow some balls and stop being pushed around by the NRA?

 

[pastafarian]

While I'm having a slow morning at work, 2 more observations from my time in the US recently:

1) On the whole they really are quite simple people - even the educated ones have little to no initiative, creativity etc. They perform jobs like robots - very mechanical, no independent thought.
2) They are incredibly insular and isolated - they have almost no knowledge of the outside world. Not many leave the country, and if they do they keep it local (Canada, Carribean etc). And all their news channels are so US-centric that they have virtually no knowledge of other countries and cultures. They don't think their gun laws are extraordinary, because they don't know they are. They absolutely expect everyone in the UK to be carrying guns and having the same levels of gun crime they do - because they don't get any news from outside the US, they don't see any evidence to disprove this so continue in their assumption that it's the case.

Its easy to bash Americans for being insular, isolated and USA focused, because in honesty many are. Travel does indeed broaden the horizons and Americans dont travel in comparison to many others. But spare a thought before you become too harsh, Holiday time is not a given across the US, many dont have the luxury of paid holiday, those that are lucky enough to have it average about 10 days a year.If you split that to two holiday periods a year, why would you waste a weeks holiday in Europe for example spending two of those days travelling, you wouldnt, you would stay more local........just saying.

 

[maffew]

All countries have people with mental health issues. Only America has regular school shootings.

Mental health is not the problem here. The accessibility of guns is.

All countries have cars and lorrries too, formidable weapons if you choose (or become inclined) to do so

 

[BN41Albion]

Its easy to bash Americans for being insular, isolated and USA focused, because in honesty many are. Travel does indeed broaden the horizons and Americans dont travel in comparison to many others. But spare a thought before you become too harsh, Holiday time is not a given across the US, many dont have the luxury of paid holiday, those that are lucky enough to have it average about 10 days a year.If you split that to two holiday periods a year, why would you waste a weeks holiday in Europe for example spending two of those days travelling, you wouldnt, you would stay more local........just saying.

Hardly any paid holiday, awful maternity/paternity leave conditions, no nhs, huge gun culture... Crazy that the U.S. is the richest, most powerful nation in the world!

 

[Stat Brother]

[tweet]964761382544642048[/tweet]

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I have posted a few links to polls suggesting that the majority would like stricter background checks for firearms. So without evidence to the contrary i would dispute this.

If the polls I have posted are to be believed then it isn't the Americans that are mad as they would like tighter controls. Perhaps the majority need to grow some balls and stop being pushed around by the NRA?

If you are right then brilliant, and yes indeed.

Are you sure that a majority actually want 'gun control' though? If so what does that mean? In some states there is gun control of sorts, but it is along the lines of nor carrying automatic weapons in your car, or not having a concealed weapon in your trousers when collecting junior from school. It wouldn't surprise me to find that a majority want 'more' gun control - but that would not include any laws that might prevent them from owning a gun.....

I am not in favour of the US situation, obviously. For me, arming the people is madness. However, for some of the reasons stated, I can't see this genie ever being put back in the bottle. The NRA seems to be utterly pervasive. I personally find them a bit frightening and imagine that if I lived in the US and vocally opposed the NRA, the least bad thing that might happen to me is that I would be threatened by someone with a gun.

I hear this morning that Trump refuses to discuss gun control (after the latest massacre). My guess is he won't lose one single supporter as a consequence. I find facts such as this much more piquant than the possibility that most Americans might support some sort of gun control (so long as it doesn't etc etc - see above).

And, once again, I look out through my patio doors (that remained, as always, unlocked last night) on to my English garden and give my thanks to my imaginary friend (who Americans would calll God) that I am English and live in England.

 

[BadFish]

If you are right then brilliant, and yes indeed.

Are you sure that a majority actually want 'gun control' though? If so what does that mean? In some states there is gun control of sorts, but it is along the lines of nor carrying automatic weapons in your car, or not having a concealed weapon in your trousers when collecting junior from school. It wouldn't surprise me to find that a majority want 'more' gun control - but that would not include any laws that might prevent them from owning a gun.....

I am not in favour of the US situation, obviously. For me, arming the people is madness. However, for some of the reasons stated, I can't see this genie ever being put back in the bottle. The NRA seems to be utterly pervasive. I personally find them a bit frightening and imagine that if I lived in the US and vocally opposed the NRA, the least bad thing that might happen to me is that I would be threatened by someone with a gun.

I hear this morning that Trump refuses to discuss gun control (after the latest massacre). My guess is he won't lose one single supporter as a consequence. I find facts such as this much more piquant than the possibility that most Americans might support some sort of gun control (so long as it doesn't etc etc - see above).

And, once again, I look out through my patio doors (that remained, as always, unlocked last night) on to my English garden and give my thanks to my imaginary friend (who Americans would calll God) that I am English and live in England.

I think you are spot on to be honest. It is an incredible situation and one that is not going to change. If they didn't do anything after Sandy Hook they never will.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

[Stat Brother]

If you are right then brilliant, and yes indeed.

Are you sure that a majority actually want 'gun control' though? If so what does that mean? In some states there is gun control of sorts, but it is along the lines of nor carrying automatic weapons in your car, or not having a concealed weapon in your trousers when collecting junior from school. It wouldn't surprise me to find that a majority want 'more' gun control - but that would not include any laws that might prevent them from owning a gun.....

I am not in favour of the US situation, obviously. For me, arming the people is madness. However, for some of the reasons stated, I can't see this genie ever being put back in the bottle. The NRA seems to be utterly pervasive. I personally find them a bit frightening and imagine that if I lived in the US and vocally opposed the NRA, the least bad thing that might happen to me is that I would be threatened by someone with a gun.

I hear this morning that Trump refuses to discuss gun control (after the latest massacre). My guess is he won't lose one single supporter as a consequence. I find facts such as this much more piquant than the possibility that most Americans might support some sort of gun control (so long as it doesn't etc etc - see above).

And, once again, I look out through my patio doors (that remained, as always, unlocked last night) on to my English garden and give my thanks to my imaginary friend (who Americans would calll God) that I am English and live in England.

Assault rifles, the AR-15 being the weapon of choice for these whackjobs, were banned in the US between 1994 to 2004.
Reinstating that ban would be a start.

But you've got to ask yourself why was the ban allowed to expire and what has changed in congress since?

Reinstating the ban was last voted on, in Congress, in 2013 AFTER Sandy Hook, and the motion failed 40 to 60.