[Misc] Here We Go Again - Breaking News Florida Shooting At High School

[Triggaaar]

On Newsnight a couple of days ago there was some woman who was an NRA member or supporter and her argument was that gun control hadn't worked, and the problem was that the school didn't have adequate protection (i.e. guns themselves). So her solution was to arm more people, so that they can protect themselves. She suggested college (university) should be carrying guns around with them if necessary. How can you get through to someone like that?

Bullet to the head.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Trump is not completely stupid. For every voter lost who will be angry that an 18 year old with mental health problems is no longer able to get his hands on a rapid fire automatic weapon there will be 3 voters won who believe he is genuinely tough on gun laws.

He's probably cut a deal with the NRA already - "I'll make sure 99% of guns laws remain for as long as I'm President, but throw me a bone on the 1%."

 

[Stoo82]

American Constitution, Second Amendment:

'A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'

The most important word said here.... Amendment.

 

[Fungus]

Sad that a thread about 17 dead kids degenerates into an argument about how much holiday Americans get.

It hasn't "degenerated", it's a genuine discussion about the insularity of Americans.

 

[seagulls4ever]

Bullet to the head.

I just realised I forgot to type 'students'. She suggested college (university) students should be carrying guns around with them for protection, like it's a normal thing. WTF.

 

[Triggaaar]

I just realised I forgot to type 'students'. She suggested college (university) students should be carrying guns around with them for protection, like it's a normal thing. WTF.

My point stands.

 

[GT49er]

Bullet to the head.

If you're assuming that's where her brains are, you may be guilty of jumping to conclusions................

 

[GT49er]

That won't be happening for a long time.

.
It may be sooner than the nut jobs in the NRA think; the younger generation has different ideas and values from their parents and grandparents. 'The Times They are a Changin', as they say.

And you're right, if they come for their guns there will be bloodshed, more than happens in any school shooting.

In the short term? Maybe - but how long will the majority of young voters coming on to the voting rolls tolerate the current regular culling of their innocent fellows? A hundred years ago - even 50 years - nobody could have imagined homosexuality becoming acceptable and smoking unacceptable - but it happened.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It doesn't matter if people are shot because if they are good Christians they will ascend to glory.

Obviously if everyone carried a gun then everyone would be safer.

I really don't see why there is any discussion about this.

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

American Constitution, Second Amendment:

'A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'

The most important word said here.... Amendment.

It's interesting how many Americans get their knickers in a twist when any one talks about the Amendments to the Constitution and trying to change them. They seem to forget that the 18th Amendment (The outlawing of Liquor - Prohibition) was repealed 14 years later by the 21st Amendment. It can be done - clearly the 2nd Amendment is unlikely to ever be repealed, but that doesn't mean it cannot be updated / clarified to bring it up to date.

 

[drew]

It hasn't "degenerated", it's a genuine discussion about the insularity of Americans.

It was going down hill. The point someone was making was that they don't travel to Europe or elsewhere because they only have 10 days holiday. Maybe the reason they don't travel is because they can travel in their own country for the sun that a lot of brits only travel to the med for or for the snow for skiing etc etc. Unfortunately it was descending into people arguing whether they get 10 days leave or not!

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

.
It may be sooner than the nut jobs in the NRA think; the younger generation has different ideas and values from their parents and grandparents. 'The Times They are a Changin', as they say.

Once again you're completely overlooking the rise of a youth culture of the centre and right that is happening because of groups like ANTIFA.

That happens when people don't see the full picture.

In the short term? Maybe - but how long will the majority of young voters coming on to the voting rolls tolerate the current regular culling of their innocent fellows? A hundred years ago - even 50 years - nobody could have imagined homosexuality becoming acceptable and smoking unacceptable - but it happened.

You're comparing two issues that have nothing to do with gun ownership.

You need to understand that this is a constitutional issue and that the second amendment will always be something people will defend by whatever means necessary. It's not some wishy washy point of acceptance issue.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

It’s amazing that there are people that think that the US Government would be in some way worried about not being able to control some redneck with an assault rifle. Like someone like him would be any problem whatsoever if they decided they wanted rid of him. What’s he going to do, shoot a drone out of the sky?

Blow up Government buildings and kill a shit load of people?

If the government started going around "taking out" people who many would see as defenders of the second amendment of the constitution then it wouldn't simply be "some redneck" they would be dealing with.

All that would do in millions of minds is solidify why the forefathers wrote the second amendment in the first place.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Baby killer McVeigh?
When you start killing babies you lose any credibility in normal peoples eyes. The twats execution wasnt painful enough.

Oh please, Barrack Obomber is still the darling of hundreds of millions despite being the most bomb happy President in the US history.

If blowing up innocent people deserves a painful execution why not call for Obomber to face a similar fate?

 

[GT49er]

You're comparing two issues that have nothing to do with gun ownership.

Of course they haven't. I've no idea if homosexual American men are more or less keen to own a gun than heterosexual ones, or if they smoke - and it's totally irrelevant anyway. The point - which you seem to be deliberately missing - is that changes that took place in the 20th Century (views on homosexuality, smoking) were fully as much entrenched, established and untouchable 100 years ago as the gun lobby is now.
The unthinkable has happened in our lifetime. Anyone who doesn't think that will happen again is living in a dream world (I'm referring to the NRA, of course, not to any of my fellow posters on NSC!)

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Of course they haven't. I've no idea if homosexual American men are more or less keen to own a gun than heterosexual ones, or if they smoke - and it's totally irrelevant anyway. The point - which you seem to be deliberately missing - is that changes that took place in the 20th Century (views on homosexuality, smoking) were fully as much entrenched, established and untouchable 100 years ago as the gun lobby is now.
The unthinkable has happened in our lifetime. Anyone who doesn't think that will happen again is living in a dream world (I'm referring to the NRA, of course, not to any of my fellow posters on NSC!)

I'm not missing that point, you are.

Accepting gays is not in the same realm as potentially altering or coming after the second amendment. It's in a different universe.


You need to understand the vast amount of people that hold the second amendment sacred in the US count in their millions upon millions are not some small group of people.

This gun culture is here to stay. Why?

2016 was the largest ever year for gun sales. 2017 was on track to be potentially the second biggest year ever for gun sales in the history of the US.

These statistics do not support your view that guns are becoming less popular, in fact it says the opposite, people are buying them in record numbers.

 

[Yoda]

I'm not missing that point, you are.

Accepting gays is not in the same realm as potentially altering or coming after the second amendment. It's in a different universe.


You need to understand the vast amount of people that hold the second amendment sacred in the US count in their millions upon millions are not some small group of people.

This gun culture is here to stay. Why?

2016 was the largest ever year for gun sales. 2017 was on track to be potentially the second biggest year ever for gun sales in the history of the US.

These statistics do not support your view that guns are becoming less popular, in fact it says the opposite, people are buying them in record numbers.

Times change as do guns. The sooner they realise this the better.

A typical gun when the 2nd amendment was written vs a typical gun used in many of the mass shootings in the US today:

I'm not saying they need to scrap the whole lot, but maybe (just maybe) some guns should be illegal to own without proper checks and licenses.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Times change as do guns. The sooner they realise this the better.

A typical gun when the 2nd amendment was written vs a typical gun used in many of the mass shootings in the US today:

People need to stop waffling on about AR-15, they kill a tiny tiny % of people in the US. In 2016 less than 2% of people killed were killed by assault rifles. Less than 1% of all gun injuries were due to assault rifles

The vast overwhelming majority of gun deaths are by hand guns.

So if you'll pardon the pun people are taking aim at something that's not even the overwhelming issue with gun deaths.

If you want a simple solution to assault rifle sales don't go down the dumb arse and lengthy process of going after the constitution. Just go down the far easier route of taxing them at a 10000% rate and making them unaffordable to the vast majority of people.

 

[GT49er]

I'm not missing that point, you are.

Accepting gays is not in the same realm as potentially altering or coming after the second amendment.

Yes it is. A hundred years ago homosexuality becoming legal, let alone respectable, was just as unthinkable, probably more so, than gun control is now. Certainly far more fundamental.



Changes happen - history proves that. Sometimes bloodshed is involved, but bloodshed doesn't stop the change happening.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Yes it is. A hundred years ago homosexuality becoming legal, let alone respectable, was just as unthinkable, probably more so, than gun control is now. Certainly far more fundamental.


Changes happen - history proves that. Sometimes bloodshed is involved, but bloodshed doesn't stop the change happening.

Gun sales are increasing...

If your view was representative of the US populations they should be dropping yes?