[News] Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II Passes Away - 08/09/2022

[PeterT]

But why? I assure you, I left 6th form long ago but can't get my head around deference to the monarchy. Far from being deserving of respect, I feel they are a force for bad in our nation and beyond.

I've not heard a single coherent argument to convince me otherwise.

I will give you just one example. Have you heard anyone say anything other than praiseworthy comments about Queen Elizabeth’s non-political role in the Irish Peace process? Both sides of the community north and south of the border were aligned in their comments and overwhelming praise.

Could it have been done by someone with a political agenda? Maybe, maybe not. The Queen’s unique position allowed her to intervene where a politician could not. How on God’s earth was that a force for bad? There is your ‘just one example’. There are plenty more.

Now if your argument is against the monarchy rather than Queen Elizabeth then to blame them for the problems in Ireland may have validation in part but is a highly debatable topic and impossible to prove either way or to single out one party for blame. You could go back to the Norman conquest and blame the French if you really wanted to stretch it back that far. Or blame the poster boy republican Oliver Cromwell (edit - corrected).

But if you are convinced that the monarchy are just a force for bad, especially now that you have the counter example you said you were missing, I suspect nothing will persuade you otherwise. I kind of understand that because I am convinced that we become a lesser nation without the monarchy (also through Brexit and break up of the U.K.) and whilst your arguments may have some validity on some topics, it’s not something you alone would ever be able to change my views on!

 

[Deleted member 37369]

Love this. Always like a bit of subversive behaviour towards the upper classes and a jolly good reminder that not everyone has the same experience of the monarchy. For many, many people it’s not all Danbury Mint decorative plates and garden parties.

The Irish and the Scots have every right to loathe the monarchy.

The level of power our monarchy wields does not come without enforcement and oppression.

Good for the sweaties.

You're congratulating the 'sweaties' for chanting "Lizzie's in a box" during a minutes silence

Wow ...

One of the decent posters on here the other night suggested I make use of the 'ignore' feature on here'. Adding you right now!

 

[A1X]

The words “end of an era” are much overused. Whenever England change manager it’s “the end of an era”. Whenever a popular band disbands it’s “the end of an era”. When a James Bond actor retires, it’s “the end of an era”. But tomorrow really is the actual end of an era. I don’t think it’s yet dawned on many in a way just how huge tomorrow is.

I’m not a huge monarchist. My opinion of the royal family is, to paraphrase Douglas Adams, that they’re “mostly harmless”. In terms of the things which are most at need of fixing in this country and the problems it faces, the royal question isn’t even in the top 20 things that need fixing IMHO. But I think tomorrow many who aren’t expecting to get emotional might find themselves being so.

 

[knocky1]

Sad of Bolsonaro to speak for 15 seconds about the Queen before his 2 minute political fascist rant from the Brazilian Ambassador's place in Mayfair.
What the hell is he doing here? Murderer of a UK journalist and Strimmer of the amazon forests.
The world is turning and we're speeding it up for the super rich investing in the christofascist chavs and atheistfascist chavs.

 

[Weststander]

The words “end of an era” are much overused. Whenever England change manager it’s “the end of an era”. Whenever a popular band disbands it’s “the end of an era”. When a James Bond actor retires, it’s “the end of an era”. But tomorrow really is the actual end of an era. I don’t think it’s yet dawned on many in a way just how huge tomorrow is.

I’m not a huge monarchist. My opinion of the royal family is, to paraphrase Douglas Adams, that they’re “mostly harmless”. In terms of the things which are most at need of fixing in this country and the problems it faces, the royal question isn’t even in the top 20 things that need fixing IMHO. But I think tomorrow many who aren’t expecting to get emotional might find themselves being so.

Top post.

Lots of people have said “I’m in no way a monarchist, but …”.

For much of the UK and the wider world (going by what I’ve seen and heard in London over the last week), a time for sentiment, looking back and a polite goodbye.

 

[Weststander]

Sad of Bolsonaro to speak for 15 seconds about the Queen before his 2 minute political fascist rant from the Brazilian Ambassador's place in Mayfair.
What the hell is he doing here? Murderer of a UK journalist and Strimmer of the amazon forests.
The world is turning and we're speeding it up for the super rich investing in the christofascist chavs and atheistfascist chavs.

What did he say?

 

[Swansman]

The words “end of an era” are much overused. Whenever England change manager it’s “the end of an era”. Whenever a popular band disbands it’s “the end of an era”. When a James Bond actor retires, it’s “the end of an era”. But tomorrow really is the actual end of an era. I don’t think it’s yet dawned on many in a way just how huge tomorrow is.

I’m not a huge monarchist. My opinion of the royal family is, to paraphrase Douglas Adams, that they’re “mostly harmless”. In terms of the things which are most at need of fixing in this country and the problems it faces, the royal question isn’t even in the top 20 things that need fixing IMHO. But I think tomorrow many who aren’t expecting to get emotional might find themselves being so.

End of an era how exactly? In the Japanese sense?

Depends on what constitutes an "era" I guess. Is it just a span of time or does other things go with it, and in that sense I'm genuinely curious what you think might change?

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Now if your argument is against the monarchy rather than Queen Elizabeth then to blame them for the problems in Ireland may have validation in part but is a highly debatable topic and impossible to prove either way or to single out one party for blame. You could go back to the Norman conquest and blame the French if you really wanted to stretch it back that far. Or blame the poster boy republican Oliver Cromwell for the Battle of the Boyne.

The battle of the Boyne was between James II/VII and William III. Cromwell was responsible for various sieges leading to massacres such as Drogheda about 40years earlier.

 

[PeterT]

The battle of the Boyne was between James II/VII and William III. Cromwell was responsible for various sieges leading to massacres such as Drogheda about 40years earlier.

Yes, you are correct. It is right to say that Cromwell had a significant role in Irish history but that was before King Billy’s involvement at the Battle of the Boyne.

 

[Weststander]

The battle of the Boyne was between James II/VII and William III. Cromwell was responsible for various sieges leading to massacres such as Drogheda about 40years earlier.

Cromwell and the Plantations.

 

[The Clamp]

You're congratulating the 'sweaties' for chanting "Lizzie's in a box" during a minutes silence

Wow ...

One of the decent posters on here the other night suggested I make use of the 'ignore' feature on here'. Adding you right now!

I have since apologised. I hadn’t actually read that line. I was speaking from ignorance and was in the wrong. Post now deleted.

 

[knocky1]

What did he say?

Well if you don't read the news here it is.
"We are a country that does not want to discuss the legalisation of drugs, that does not want to discuss the legalisation of abortion and a country that does not accept gender ideology,” Bolsonaro went on. “Our slogan is: God, homeland, family and freedom.”

 

[Weststander]

Well if you don't read the news here it is.
"We are a country that does not want to discuss the legalisation of drugs, that does not want to discuss the legalisation of abortion and a country that does not accept gender ideology,” Bolsonaro went on. “Our slogan is: God, homeland, family and freedom.”

(I’d been out most the day).

What an oddball making a political speech.

A destroyer of wildlife/rainforest will always be scum imo.

 

[Bakero]

I will give you just one example. Have you heard anyone say anything other than praiseworthy comments about Queen Elizabeth’s non-political role in the Irish Peace process? Both sides of the community north and south of the border were aligned in their comments and overwhelming praise.

Could it have been done by someone with a political agenda? Maybe, maybe not. The Queen’s unique position allowed her to intervene where a politician could not. How on God’s earth was that a force for bad? There is your ‘just one example’. There are plenty more.

Now if your argument is against the monarchy rather than Queen Elizabeth then to blame them for the problems in Ireland may have validation in part but is a highly debatable topic and impossible to prove either way or to single out one party for blame. You could go back to the Norman conquest and blame the French if you really wanted to stretch it back that far. Or blame the poster boy republican Oliver Cromwell (edit - corrected).

But if you are convinced that the monarchy are just a force for bad, especially now that you have the counter example you said you were missing, I suspect nothing will persuade you otherwise. I kind of understand that because I am convinced that we become a lesser nation without the monarchy (also through Brexit and break up of the U.K.) and whilst your arguments may have some validity on some topics, it’s not something you alone would ever be able to change my views on!

I'm sure nothing I say will convince you to change your views and I have no intention of doing so. What's more, I don't doubt the Queen has done some good things but that is irrelevant to me. The monarchy could cure cancer and rescue babies from burning buildings on a daily basis and I'd still want rid of them. It's their existence not their actions that I take issue with

 

[PeterT]

I'm sure nothing I say will convince you to change your views and I have no intention of doing so. What's more, I don't doubt the Queen has done some good things but that is irrelevant to me. The monarchy could cure cancer and rescue babies from burning buildings on a daily basis and I'd still want rid of them. It's their existence not their actions that I take issue with

Fair enough but that’s a bit contradictory from your previous post, to which I replied, which said:

“Far from being deserving of respect, I feel they are a force for bad in our nation and beyond. I've not heard a single coherent argument to convince me otherwise.”

So I responded with a coherent argument and example, but now you say you don’t need one as it won’t make any difference.

Yours,
Confused of Tunbridge Wells

 

[Bakero]

Fair enough but that’s a bit contradictory from your previous post, to which I replied, which said:

“Far from being deserving of respect, I feel they are a force for bad in our nation and beyond. I've not heard a single coherent argument to convince me otherwise.”

So I responded with a coherent argument and example, but now you say you don’t need one as it won’t make any difference.

Yours,
Confused of Tunbridge Wells

I mean their existence and what it represents is pernicious. Isolated incidents of positive acts don't change that.

Like I said, I don't aim to change your views. As with politics, it seems these things are hardwired into people's brains and no debate will sway either side. It's good for both camps to know the other exists though

 

[Deleted member 37369]

I have since apologised. I hadn’t actually read that line. I was speaking from ignorance and was in the wrong. Post now deleted.

You make a habit of speaking from ignorance and then thinking an apology when you've been called out makes it all OK!

 

[The Clamp]

You make a habit of speaking from ignorance and then thinking an apology when you've been called out makes it all OK!

I rarely speak from ignorance. And am happy to apologise when I do. If you’re not man enough to accept an apology that’s your issue. Enjoy the funeral and enjoy having me on ignore.

 

[clapham_gull]

Post a link to your estimated costs. The Sovereign Grant and Crown Estates to the Treasury Is published every year.

But security costs aren't and they are very expensive. Quite easy to find out estimates, I don't need to do the job of google.

If you think the published figures cover the cost you are on another planet I'm afraid.

By all means support the institution (there isn't going to be an alternative in my lifetime) but please come up with something a bit better than their apparent value to the economy.

I don't expect the new King to interventionist, but I would hope he addresses the nation more times than the last monarch. Only happened 5 times in her reign, 3 of which were related to Royal Family issues.

 

[jakarta]

No matter what your feelings about Monarchy are, surely this thread should be up top today? We'll never see the like of this Funeral again.

I am certain that when Charles goes (and that may be sooner rather than later) the USA will send the VP rather than the POTUS for example.