Hawsey and Harty

[Lord Bracknell]

With public sector organisations (including, I am sure, the BBC), where a disciplinary hearing occurs in response to a complaint from a member of the public, it is customary for the details of the complaint (including who it comes from) to be made known to the person who is on the receiving end of the disciplinary process.

 

[Storer68]

But as Harty is essentially a freelance for this , (I presume he is not a BBC employee) this will not be a sacking but merely a termination of a contract.

You can't be sacked for an organisation that doesn't employ you, can you?.

 

[Barry Izbak]

My next door neighbour [who] is a very close relative of someone who works for BBC SCR, on the albion games...[and they]... were speaking to my dad about it.

Slightly off topic I know and absolutely not having a pop at anyone, but this is a great example of the sort of stories that make their way on to here. I love it

I think they would call this circumstantial evidence on The Bill

 

[Al Bion]

Aye? 40,000 listeners? to the phone in? No

I also find this absolutely unbelievable - there are 40,000 listeners to the live commentary of a paint pot cup match? I would have thought 4,000 was pushing it even with internet listeners included.

And it now seems there were two complaints, I thought it was said before there was only one

 

[The Large One]

Aye? 40,000 listeners? to the phone in? No

Two things.

One, the comment was not made during the phone-in.

Two, the official RAJAR figures for the phone-in are around 40,000-45,000, apparently.

 

[The Large One]

But as Harty is essentially a freelance for this , (I presume he is not a BBC employee) this will not be a sacking but merely a termination of a contract.

You can't be sacked for an organisation that doesn't employ you, can you?.

So he has a contract for the BBC, but isn't employed by them?

Isn't 'having a paid contract in order to do some work' a loose-ish definition of 'employed'?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

So he has a contract for the BBC, but isn't employed by them?

Isn't 'having a paid contract in order to do some work' a loose-ish definition of 'employed'?

The defining characteristic of an employee is whether the "employer" deducts PAYE from any payments made.

If not, you are a contractor / freelance / supplier / self-employed.

 

[Withdean Wanderer]

How the hell can BBC justify sacking Hart for saying 'lick windows' and KEEP Hawes for calling for 'window lickers' to ring in?

Unfair dismissal? SHIT decision, bring them both back. I hope a different show can pick up the fans phone in with Harty, even if it isn't SCR.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Unfair dismissal?

That's the other thing that defines an "employee".

An employee has the right to appeal to an Employment Tribunal, claiming unfair or wrongful dismissal.

A freelance doesn't.

My guess is that the BBC are well aware of the need for them to tread more carefully in Hawsey's case than Harty's.

Which reinforces the view that they are not being fair on Harty.

 

[jcdenton08]

That's the other thing that defines an "employee".

An employee has the right to appeal to an Employment Tribunal, claiming unfair or wrongful dismissal.

A freelance doesn't.

It was my impression that a freelance DOES have a right to claim unfair dismissal if they have worked for the same entity for a period exceeding 12 months.. employment law is very vague though - the courts will see pretty much anybody that fills in the paperwork correctly, whether they meet the criteria or not.

It is certain that freelance or self-employed however can claim "constructive dismissal" or "unfair dismissal" if dismissed on the grounds of race, sex or disability. They can also claim "wrongful discrimination" if they are not offered an interview for their own job.

 

[itszamora]

A freelance journalist has very few rights (trust me, I am one!) and it's not so much that he could be sacked, the BBC could just not offer him any more shifts and that's that.

Also TLO - RAJAR is a monthly reach so it's unlikely that all 40,000 are ever listening to one phone-in.

 

[sureyyathegodofthephonein]

Please bring them back

they've said there sorry

 

[jcdenton08]

Forgive my ignorance, I did actually hear the thing live, and Harty's comment which I hadn't even heard of until he started apologising profusely, and I googled it..

What did Andrew Hawes do?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

He picks the team.
.

No, I'm led to believe Richard is reasonably bright. No way he'd be stupid enough to play Virgo right wing.

 

[portlock seagull]

Unfortunately the only spastics in this whole affair looks like being the BBC - to everybody else's loss bar the 1 in 20,000 who found it offensive. Now you can find that same person in a group of 20,000 Camelot winners. Pathetic complaint. Pathetically handled.

 

[BensGrandad]

The defining characteristic of an employee is whether the "employer" deducts PAYE from any payments made.

If not, you are a contractor / freelance / supplier / self-employed.

Wrong PAYE is only one of he guidelines that is used to determine whether a person is employed or not. When the Inland Revenue are asked to determine the employment status of a person.

I was self employed and won an industrial tribunal based on the fact that although self employed running a pub we didnt have sufficient tiome to havea work contract with any other organisation so it was ajudged that I was technically employed as far as the employment laws go.

Incidentally I fought the case myself by reserching employment laws etc and the owners of the pub were represented by Rix & Kay Solicitors who sponsor the ball boys etc at Withdean.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Your case may well have been governed by the special rules that the Revenue laid down for certain types of work, BG.

I know that musicians playing regularly in an orchestra or dance band used to be treated as employees, rather than freelancers, even though they might do other work on a solo basis. Tax for their work with the orchestra or band was supposed to be collected through the PAYE system. Tax for solo work was collected separately through Schedule D. This was years ago and the rules may well have changed since.

 

[BensGrandad]

It is a special dispensation for publicans because it is a 24/7 job and doesnt allow the opportunity to do other work.

I had to get a certificate from from the Sussex Office of the IR in Brighton when I submitted my claim.

I ran a pub in BH that was sold and the new owners didnt want me to continue to run it because the lady decided that she wanted the pub, The Cricketers to become an A La carte restaurant pub instead of sports orientated locals pub that it was. She sacked me and my wife and I sued her for unfair dismissal and won at the he aring in Southampton and received significant damages. She eventually went broke in the pub and sold it and it has now reverted very successfully to what it was when we ran it.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

THPP Fixtured

 

[clippedgull]

How the hell can BBC justify sacking Hart

Maybe he had previous warnings on file?

I can recall two previous times when his 'professionalism' has been questioned.