[Albion] Have we been found out?

[trueblue]

Long article in The Times today dissecting Roberto’s tactics and putting the poor form down to teams having worked us out. An extensive explanation of what I think most of us had sussed already: press high against us, you’ll be destroyed. Refuse to engage, you’ve got a chance on the counter. Brace yourself for this being the recurring theme of all ‘expert’ and pub bore talk about the Albion until we get a couple of big results again.

It’s fairly interesting analysis but totally ignores what I reckon is the key point. The changes in personnel over the summer and this season through injury, which has basically left us light in pivotal positions at times.

Surely that’s far more important than the fact teams are now routinely refusing to cross the halfway line when we’re in possession. That’s going to make it harder to score but it shouldn’t be too difficult either to tweak the style so we don’t get caught cheaply. At worst, we’re back to a ‘normal’ game. Sticking with our style, we still automatically negate the strengths of any team that would normally want to dominate us.

In Marseille, where a point was always going to be a decent outcome, Steele could have stood there with his foot on the ball for the whole of the first half. They’d have to press eventually. I’d love to see us push that to the limit on the road just for the hilarity of furious away fans frothing at the mouth.

 

[Da Man Clay]

It worked last year too when sides stepped off of us. See Everton for example. This season more sides are doing and we’re struggling to counter it.

It’s why we get so many results against ‘big’ sides through. They are unlikely to just let us have the ball.

The change in personnel / injuries haven’t helped but it’s been a challenge for us for a while.

 

[El Turi]

We are susceptible to the counter because we don’t have a defensive midfielder playing at the moment. Hopefully this can be sorted by getting Baleba up to speed as soon as possible.

The club haven’t got much wrong in recent years but not having a Caicedo replacement before he left was a big mistake. I know we wouldn’t have someone of his level but you’d hope we’d at least have had a physical defensive midfielder ready to come into the team.

 

[trueblue]

It worked last year too when sides stepped off of us. See Everton for example. This season more sides are doing and we’re struggling to counter it.

It’s why we get so many results against ‘big’ sides through. They are unlikely to just let us have the ball.

The change in personnel / injuries haven’t helped but it’s been a challenge for us for a while.

Indeed. Not that much of a challenge though. As we’re not going to win every single match, seems to me the benefits far outweigh the risk of the occasional heavy defeat. The big issue I think is we just haven’t got the players at this exact moment (including some not yet up to speed) to implement RDZ’s ideas as effectively as before. Just think it’s going to become a boring cliche that we’ll be hearing a lot.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

We’re doomed.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

We are susceptible to the counter because we don’t have a defensive midfielder playing at the moment. Hopefully this can be sorted by getting Baleba up to speed as soon as possible.

The club haven’t got much wrong in recent years but not having a Caicedo replacement before he left was a big mistake. I know we wouldn’t have someone of his level but you’d hope we’d at least have had a physical defensive midfielder ready to come into the team.

Caicedo going wasn’t entirely how we wanted things.

 

[DarrenFreemansPerm]

The media have elevated us to the level where they put expectations on us to win at an alarmingly high rate, now a couple of losses and a battering at Villa and they got a new angle to fill their articles with.
We’re shipping goals as there’s nobody shielding the centre backs, we’re weak in the centre of the park, we don’t have a ball winner ( on the pitch). The sooner Baleba is deemed ‘up to speed’ all of the above should be eased. Our football is a tad inconsistent at the moment but all the while the personnel is on constant rotation and we’re missing a true CDM we’re going to see these patchy performances and results.
Just my own opinion, but I’d make it a priority to recruit a 2nd CDM in January.

 

[ewe2]

If we have been worked out and RZ cannot improve his tactics….then what next I wonder…..?!?!

 

[BadFish]

Bit of both innit. Also add in the fact that we are playing two games a week.

Hopefully, our replacements will get up to speed and Roberto will do something clever to beat the teams playing a low block against us.

Our style of play is always going to make the highs higher and the lows lower. Enjoy the ride muthafunkers.

 

[Triggaaar]

It’s fairly interesting analysis but totally ignores what I reckon is the key point. The changes in personnel over the summer and this season through injury, which has basically left us light in pivotal positions at times.

I agree.

Surely that’s far more important than the fact teams are now routinely refusing to cross the halfway line when we’re in possession.

That's not true, teams are still pressing us (see Bournemouth's goal), but perhaps they're more measured and keep several back.

That’s going to make it harder to score but it shouldn’t be too difficult either to tweak the style so we don’t get caught cheaply.

You would hope so. When the keeper (this keeper rotation business makes it seem like I don't know the names of our players) is stood with the ball and no one challenges him, we need better movement giving him more options.

 

[Triggaaar]

The club haven’t got much wrong in recent years but not having a Caicedo replacement before he left was a big mistake.

I think that's harsh, since Caicedo was Bissouma's replacement, so losing a replacement after one year didn't give us much chance to find a good enough alternative, and when you get offers over £100m it becomes somewhat unreasonable to say no.

 

[Eric the meek]

Have we been found out? Yes, I would say so. But the finding out is still ongoing. Pep once said that RDZ is changing the way the Premier League plays. You can see it when any number of teams try to play it out from the back, with varying degrees of success. We should expect other teams to study us and play catch up. Some will succeed, some won't.

Do we miss Caicedo? Oh, yes. It's the perceived wisdom on here to say we rinsed Chelsea. But performances and results have been patchy since his departure. RDZ says Baleba isn't ready. So until he is, we will have to enjoy De Zerbi ball without adequate midfield protection. Enjoy the roller coaster.

 

[KZNSeagull]

The more clubs do not engage, the more the team will adapt. They will get used to changing tactics early on - there was one very good example this season when RDZ instructed the centre backs to play wider after 20 minutes. They now have that tactic in their arsenal. It is still early days for RDZ ball and it is clear that he can change it when necessary and the more often they do so the more the players will get used to it.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

It's not just having ball winner it's about having someone who can retain the ball in midfield. Too many times our defenders are playing it out to a midfielder only for an opposing player to nip in and pinch it or pressure them off it. It is happening time and time again, partly down to teams adjusting their tactics but also because Caicedo was excellent at receiving the ball in tight space. We badly need someone who can fill that role.

 

[Brok]

If we have been worked out and RZ cannot improve his tactics….then what next I wonder…..?!?!

See post #5

 

[The Grockle]

I'm not sure about being found out but the first 15 minutes or so against Marseille we were inviting them onto us and they were having none of it, they were disciplined and as a result we were very nervy and offered little.

I'd like it if we adapted our approach a little. I'm an advocate of our style of play and certainly not calling for us going long or more direct but Marseille's defence looked vulnerable and I felt we could have tested them early on. Mitoma looked poor in the first half but our approach didn't give him the oppertunity to run at their defence and create the problems he is capable of.

I'm sure the atmosphere and occasion played a part but I feel RDZ got it wrong in the fist half and it felt very similar to the first half at Villa which I felt we lost due to tactics.

 

[Braggfan]

I think it's a combination of things. To some degree teams have worked out tactics to help play against us, but also we lost Mac Alliaster and Caicedo in the summer which would be hard for any team to recover completely from. I also think our tactics have differed slightly this year with our ball out from the back being more direct. Not sure why this is. I also don't think our central midfield or pivots have been quite doing the same things they were last year. Hence playing more direct balls from the back. Having said that we beat Newcastle and Man Utd comprehensively so we are doing some things right. Like I say I don't think it's just one thing.

 

[trueblue]

I'm not sure about being found out but the first 15 minutes or so against Marseille we were inviting them onto us and they were having none of it, they were disciplined and as a result we were very nervy and offered little.

I'd like it if we adapted our approach a little. I'm an advocate of our style of play and certainly not calling for us going long or more direct but Marseille's defence looked vulnerable and I felt we could have tested them early on. Mitoma looked poor in the first half but our approach didn't give him the oppertunity to run at their defence and create the problems he is capable of.

I'm sure the atmosphere and occasion played a part but I feel RDZ got it wrong in the fist half and it felt very similar to the first half at Villa which I felt we lost due to tactics.

When teams are sitting that deep, Mitoma’s not going to be able to run at them effectively though. Same with March. That’s why they’re doing it. I think almost every team will eventually open up slightly, especially at home so we just need to be patient. If we get the first goal anyway, problem solved.

 

[Berty23]

The villa game was a freak. Two goals that should have been disallowed. So completely different game. Odd game vs Athens where they took chances and we didn’t. West Ham the only one where I felt tactics killed us. And even then the clear mom was their keeper.

We have had lots of injuries to important players and we sit sixth in the league despite losing two world class midfielders. We hammered Newcastle and won comfortably at United.

I am sure other teams wish they could be found out and do as well.

 

[Mackenzie]

The good thing is that RDZ will come up with countermeasures, hopefully.