Have the Bournemouth letters hit the doormat yet?

[Birdie Boy]

There are some highly specific factors at play in your scenario: 3 glamour games on the trot (undeniable, but pretty unusual), both fans - the tier 1 and the tier 2 - are on the border of the tiers, and it just happens that the tier 1 can't make Swansea. That's quite the scenario you're creating...

However, given your scenario, your conclusion is accurate.

Is that "fair"? For that specific fan, clearly not (though, since we got promoted, they've clearly become a glory hunter - I jest). I think there's a case to be made that it might be "fair" for the fan base as a whole though. Debatable.

I'll introduce something else here. Something that someone observed a week or two ago, which I've been pondering, and I think they were right - I'm embarrassed to say I can't remember who said it.

Their point was: why worry about a widening LP gap between someone at the bottom of tier 1 and the top of tier 2 (and by implication, anywhere else) at all? Here's why: all the LP system does is to create a prioritised allocation list. If person A is at position 3000 on the list (and gets the ticket to Man U and the 5 LP) and person B is at 3001 on the list, and doesn't, their respective positions will be identical for the next away game - they'll still be 3000 and 3001....

I haven't thought it through completely yet, but I think there's a point to consider. The psychology of a widening gap isn't helpful, of course, but the actual reality is the same whether zero, 5 or 500 LP are awarded for Man U....

Isn't it....??

No. Because you are banking on all 3000 in tier 1 going. That is unlikely to happen. If 1500 go, then tier 2 can catch up on points.

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[Goldstone1976]

No. Because you are banking on all 3000 in tier 1 going. That is unlikely to happen. If 1500 go, then tier 2 can catch up on points.

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You're interpolating my point rather too specifically - hence my "or anywhere else" addition.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I`m still at a loss to know if I as a st holder can give ticket to someone else if I can`t go to home game....... I do,as I`m sure 90% of others do.......Are we allowed to ?.... I and my two sons have three season tickets between us and it is rare we all go. It is usually two of us and a friend.

No you are not allowed to.

Best not talk about it if you do.

 

[Goldstone1976]

I've made a similar point as has [MENTION=4417]The Complete Badger[/MENTION] amongst others.

The widening gap, in terms of points, between the real hard-core 1,500 or so away travellers and the rest is immaterial. Most fans do not or can not put in the time, money and effort to go to nearly every away game.

But for those in the 2,500 - 4,000ish positions on the ladder, it really is quite key. Being in the first 3,000 means you know you will get a ticket for Old Trafford if you want one. If you are position 3,500 you are going to have to wait for the scraps to become available to Tier 2 and you may miss out because Queue It gave you position 379 in the queue and tickets sold out at position 378. Thus some people not only get a ticket you wanted, but they get points to move them a bit further ahead of you too. And all because you were unlucky with the Queue It random number generator.

Yes; I agree with all of this. (I don't remember whether it was your or the badger's post I saw - apologies).

Isn't this an argument for either making initial tier 2 threshold much smaller, to minimise the number of people who missed out due to Queue-it vagaries and thus get further penalised, &/or not having LP for glamour ties?

 

[Bozza]

Yes; I agree with all of this. (I don't remember whether it was your or the badger's post I saw - apologies).

Isn't this an argument for either making initial tier 2 threshold much smaller, to minimise the number of people who missed out due to Queue-it vagaries and thus get further penalised, &/or not having LP for glamour ties?

The club have narrowed Tier 2, although won't give specifics:

"The second and subsequent windows we have started to make narrower to try to ensure the scheme is as fair as possible. We were particularly conscious of this for Man Utd and the likely popularity of the game and we will continue to review this based on anticipated popularity. It’s always a balance though as the narrower you make the windows the more friends and family groups have issues with applying for tickets together and sitting together. I’m afraid though that we wont be issuing the details of how many people are in each window."

 

[Goldstone1976]

The club have narrowed Tier 2, although won't give specifics:

"The second and subsequent windows we have started to make narrower to try to ensure the scheme is as fair as possible. We were particularly conscious of this for Man Utd and the likely popularity of the game and we will continue to review this based on anticipated popularity. It’s always a balance though as the narrower you make the windows the more friends and family groups have issues with applying for tickets together and sitting together. I’m afraid though that we wont be issuing the details of how many people are in each window."

Yep. I did see that... and had forgotten. That's a decent move, and will help.

 

[Goldstone1976]

It amazing how many people are too "ill" to attend a football match. What do they do when they have booked a flight which can not be transferred? Oh they just about recover and don't moan about the nasty air line not letting a mate use the ticket

Or, they really are too ill to fly (it's happened to me once) and don't go. I never got a letter from Virgin saying "we notice you didn't fly with us, we've removed N frequent flyer points and decided you can't buy another ticket from us again" though...

 

[essbee1]

Or, they really are too ill to fly (it's happened to me once) and don't go. I never got a letter from Virgin saying "we notice you didn't fly with us, we've removed N frequent flyer points and decided you can't buy another ticket from us again" though...

Exactly. And both Virgin and the Albion are businesses, there to make a profit surely? They are not there nor have the time to seek out and admonish ticket
buyers. It is a clash of sentiment and business - and we all know the saying.

 

[soistes]

Or, they really are too ill to fly (it's happened to me once) and don't go. I never got a letter from Virgin saying "we notice you didn't fly with us, we've removed N frequent flyer points and decided you can't buy another ticket from us again" though...

I wouldn't put that past Branson, to be honest.

 

[Goldstone1976]

I wouldn't put that past Branson, to be honest.

Fair comment! In the very dim and distant past I was the project manager on a project looking at some issues at Virgin Atlantic (they had co-CEOs at the time), and had to make some presentations to the entitled one (he does have a knighthood, after all) . For multiple reasons, including client confidentiality, I won't expand further.

 

[pearl]

Yep, they are out.
One of the pastas has received one today via email.
I dont mind admitting the fact either as we believe its been sent in error(we turned up to the league and cup game)
Anyway its similar to the press release with a little extra.



YOUR NON-ATTENDANCE AGAINST AFC BOURNEMOUTH
CARABAO CUP THIRD ROUND TIE ON TUESDAY 19 SEPTEMBER

Hi (insert name)

As you may be aware, of the 1,235 sell-out away attendance for the Carabao Cup match at AFC Bournemouth, almost 50% of Albion fans who purchased tickets did not attend the match. As a result we requested attendance data from AFC Bournemouth and we are aware that you are one of the 596 supporters who purchased a ticket but did not turn up for the game.

We do understand that a small number of supporters may have missed the game for personal reasons. However, the number of supporters that did not attend suggests that many purchased tickets without any intention of using them and made the purchase simply to secure loyalty points. Following the abuse by some supporters the following changes to the scheme were agreed at a recent club board meeting:

terms and conditions of the loyalty point scheme will be amended so that loyalty points are awarded on match attendance – for both home and away games – and not simply on ticket purchase
the club now reserves the right to reconcile attendance data from host clubs with away match tickets sold; and loyalty points may only be awarded once this process is complete
where attendance data isn’t available from host clubs, the club reserves the right to use other pre- and post-turnstile methods to measure and record supporter attendance at matches against tickets sold
identifiable abuses of the loyalty scheme will result in loyalty point deductions and may also result in possible further sanctions (including a further deduction of points or an away ticket ban)
where away match tickets are purchased and passed on for use by other fans not eligible for the tickets, supporters risk punitive sanctions including loyalty point reductions and an away ticket ban

The above changes will be implemented with immediate effect.

The club’s board is committed to maintaining a loyalty point scheme that is fair and transparent for all fans.

The loyalty point scheme is primarily designed to drive support for the team and to reward fans for doing this.

As demand for tickets exceeds supply for most of our away games, and whilst the vast majority of fans buy tickets to support the team, it is clear that some fans are tempted to 'harvest' points for matches they don’t wish to attend.

This type of behaviour is against the spirit of the club’s loyalty scheme, doesn’t provide any support to the team, and stops other fans from attending matches along with the chance to build their own loyalty point totals.

If identified, this behaviour will now lead to punitive sanctions as outlined above. The club will not issue any further warnings before taking action.

On this occasion the club will not be taking any action against individuals for not attending the AFC Bournemouth game, but for the sake of your fellow supporters and to avoid us having to take any further action, we ask that in future you only purchase a ticket for an away match if you fully intend to use it.

Many Thanks

Edited to remove name just in case
Head Of Ticketing & Supporter Services

What a load of pointless admin

 

[Simontheseagull]

or more simply, don't create the situation where 'harvesting' seems like something that might be worth doing... i.e. offering lots of points for cheap tickets

This

 

[dazzer6666]

The club have narrowed Tier 2, although won't give specifics:

"The second and subsequent windows we have started to make narrower to try to ensure the scheme is as fair as possible. We were particularly conscious of this for Man Utd and the likely popularity of the game and we will continue to review this based on anticipated popularity. It’s always a balance though as the narrower you make the windows the more friends and family groups have issues with applying for tickets together and sitting together. I’m afraid though that we wont be issuing the details of how many people are in each window."

Based on the evidence of the last couple of games they seem to be getting their numbers about right, with the Swansea game just about selling out to T2 on the day before T3 kicked in (meaning they estimated both the T2 availability and demand pretty well)

 

[Birdie Boy]

You're interpolating my point rather too specifically - hence my "or anywhere else" addition.

Ah, it was the position bit I missed, in essence, your position won't change.

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