[Albion] Have Albion progressed this season?

[albionalex]

I struggle to see the areas where we have regressed. Can you please enlighten us?

13 points vs the bottom 3 last season compared to 4 points this season

Connolly, Alzate and Maupay have regressed

2 penalties conceded last season compared to 7 so far this season

Shooting accuracy last season was 30% (2nd worst in the league) compared to 26.8% this season (worst in the league)


I'm happy to also share the areas we've improved.

 

[albionalex]

Exactly, those who have been more cautious about Potter and results and especially after a loss get told it’s a long term project and not look at short term results. Funnily enough when the team wins we get olive branches, Potters a genius, best Albion manager ever etc etc...If that’s not reactionary I don’t know what is

.

I made this exact point to Vagabond and he blocked me

 

[BN41Albion]

Voted Treading Water. Can't ALWAYS rely on there being three seriously piss poor teams below us

We're 14th at the minute and may well end up finishing higher than 14th...

(yes I know saints and Burnley have a game in hand over us)

 

[Guinness Boy]

Nah mate, avoided posting in most of the football threads, full of idiots posting crap that's been proven to be totally wrong and still today, despite every indication to the contrary, hold onto their views. Why argue with someone who is so entrenched in their view that they cannot see any other point of view. Got better things to do, like watch my grass grow.

You seem to have taken it personally.

Yep. Aftertiming.

 

[b.w.2.]

Who is your preference that we should realistically sign?


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Well, my preference has changed in the last few games. I now want us to re-sign Welbs.

If we need to, and let’s face it, times are tough financially, then we should sell White {not Biss if we can avoid it) and invest in more quality up front.

Who that striker is? Not my job , but it should be a Muzza 2 type player. Not a Wardy type (although I wouldn’t say no!).


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[Icy Gull]

Can’t help but notice that those suggesting, on this thread, that they will wait and see how many points we end up with before maybe accepting that we have progressed, are those that have been critical, dismissive even, of GP almost from the moment he was appointed. Well that’s my take anyway.

 

[Swansman]

Exactly, those who have been more cautious about Potter and results and especially after a loss get told it’s a long term project and not look at short term results. Funnily enough when the team wins we get olive branches, Potters a genius, best Albion manager ever etc etc...If that’s not reactionary I don’t know what is

The team has improved no doubt about it until the play gets to the final third then we become hesitantly unpredictable. The argument about a better striker is valid to a point although there are hardly any goals scored from the midfield to help the team which in turn heaps more pressure onto the forwards. Maupay has looked low on confidence in front of goal for a while now with no evidence of improvement. The majority of supporters blame him entirely for our lack of goals which also isn’t helping I genuinely feel for the lad.

To suggest with a shiny new forward we will suddenly propel into the top ten is also a tad reactionary until we can score goals from different areas we will always struggle to an extent. Had we lost to Leeds we would be panicky to say the least so it’s definitely not all roses in the garden just yet. Some improvement this season although nowhere near enough to get carried away.

Not sure screaming "WE'RE SHIT AND WE'RE DOOMED" after pretty much every loss is a "cautious" approach.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Can’t help but notice that those suggesting, on this thread, that they will wait and see how many points we end up with before maybe accepting that we have progressed, are those that have been critical, dismissive even, of GP almost from the moment he was appointed. Well that’s my take anyway.

The great thing about having the privilege of being able to post articles on here is that I can look back on longer, more considered and less reactive stuff that I've written and post it back. Swanny chose to bounce a thread written at our lowest point of this season but he didn't bounce this, posted at the end of last season (in the middle of summer!).

https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/content.php?852-2019-20-Review-%96-Revolution-to-Evolution

I sit here writing this knowing we are safe. A 15th place finish and 41 points being our best ever haul. The new season is starting on September 12 and already, even though it too is likely to be behind closed doors, I’m excited.

Adam Webster, who had a difficult time in front of a crowd, has looked assured. There are reports of Adam Lallana signing and his role being partially in player development. And somehow we’ve managed to let the mighty Leeds United let us have their promising centre back Ben White.

But Burnley showed how Potterball may be taking over again. The squad is now evolving, as squads should. We’ve had a year of these tactics and look far more comfortable with them. Against a team that had a superb home record we won and won well, taking their lack of comfort on the ball and hesitancy at the back and using it to our advantage. A quicker paced possession game beckons. With Alzate to come back from injury and Bissouma scoring his first goal, the regular midfield two of Stephens and Propper may be broken up. Duffy could be on his way, with White the replacement. Oh, yeah. The prediction part. Well, we need a striker as Murray ages even further, but, if we get that, then I see only better football and a comfortable mid table finish next season. And none of this, now, is revolutionary. In extraordinary times, Graham Potter is leading a very ordinary evolution at Brighton and Hove Albion.

Hardly damning of him but based on a positional and points finish, with a nod to the long term project.

The issue is we've not fully delivered on it. And we might do. Surely it's more entertaining to thumb your nose at the critics at the end of a full season when you have, in fact, got either your best place finish or points finish (or both) rather than after a routine home win against a tired looking Leeds. The fact you're so keen to get it out there right now suggests you think that we may not.

 

[Rugrat]

View attachment 136311

I was wondering if the poll or NSC was broken. Only 11% treading water and ZERO % regression.

Then I caught up with the thread and relaxed. The normal minority of posters spouting their biased crap in a last gasp desperate bid to remain 'right' despite all evidence to the contrary.

Great to see that almost 90%of fans are able to see the truth when it slaps them in the face (or on the pitch).

Looking forward to getting back to the Amex next season.

UTA.

Hallelujah to that and the other 90%. As I said in another thread total points in a season is the most important but can't be the only measure of a team's progression, or regression. We've made huge progress

I just won the winter league at my golf club yet my golf game is as bad as it's been in the past 4/5 years

 

[Icy Gull]

The great thing about having the privilege of being able to post articles on here is that I can look back on longer, more considered and less reactive stuff that I've written and post it back. Swanny chose to bounce a thread written at our lowest point of this season but he didn't bounce this, posted at the end of last season (in the middle of summer!).

https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/content.php?852-2019-20-Review-%96-Revolution-to-Evolution

I sit here writing this knowing we are safe. A 15th place finish and 41 points being our best ever haul. The new season is starting on September 12 and already, even though it too is likely to be behind closed doors, I’m excited.

Adam Webster, who had a difficult time in front of a crowd, has looked assured. There are reports of Adam Lallana signing and his role being partially in player development. And somehow we’ve managed to let the mighty Leeds United let us have their promising centre back Ben White.

But Burnley showed how Potterball may be taking over again. The squad is now evolving, as squads should. We’ve had a year of these tactics and look far more comfortable with them. Against a team that had a superb home record we won and won well, taking their lack of comfort on the ball and hesitancy at the back and using it to our advantage. A quicker paced possession game beckons. With Alzate to come back from injury and Bissouma scoring his first goal, the regular midfield two of Stephens and Propper may be broken up. Duffy could be on his way, with White the replacement. Oh, yeah. The prediction part. Well, we need a striker as Murray ages even further, but, if we get that, then I see only better football and a comfortable mid table finish next season. And none of this, now, is revolutionary. In extraordinary times, Graham Potter is leading a very ordinary evolution at Brighton and Hove Albion.

Hardly damning of him but based on a positional and points finish, with a nod to the long term project.

The issue is we've not fully delivered on it. And we might do. Surely it's more entertaining to thumb your nose at the critics at the end of a full season when you have, in fact, got either your best place finish or points finish (or both) rather than after a routine home win against a tired looking Leeds. The fact you're so keen to get it out there right now suggests you think that we may not.

One thing you cannot accuse me of is aftertiming, I have been “getting it out there” for a season and a half. All I see is progress under Potter, sometimes slow, quite often frustrating but I consider us very lucky to have him. Some laugh at that, that’s OK, I enjoy the banter (not with those who are so entrenched in their bigoted views, you are not one of them). I genuinely cannot think of another realistic alternative to him that would produce the on field entertainment that virtually every game brings, even when the results are disappointing. I am struggling to remember more than a couple of games where we were blown away, can any other bottom 8 team say the same?

Interesting bounce by you and plenty of truths in there, except we are not witnessing an “ordinary” evolution, it’s much better than that imo

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The question was 'have we improved' not 'will we do better next season and if not should Potter be sacked?'.

Unfortunately some people never properly read the exam question but still wonder why they get an E grade !

 

[Guinness Boy]

One thing you cannot accuse me of is aftertiming, I have been “getting it out there” for a season and a half. All I see is progress under Potter, sometimes slow, quite often frustrating but I consider us very lucky to have him. Some laugh at that, that’s OK, I enjoy the banter (not with those who are so entrenched in their bigoted views, you are not one of them). I genuinely cannot think of another realistic alternative to him that would produce the on field entertainment that virtually every game brings, even when the results are disappointing. I am struggling to remember more than a couple of games where we were blown away, can any other bottom 8 team say the same?

Interesting bounce by you and plenty of truths in there, except we are not witnessing than an “ordinary” evolution, it’s much better than that imo

Yep, to be fair you have been consistently supportive and often correct without the benefit of hindsight

My point was a specific retort to the comment about waiting until the end of the season. Win just two of the remaining four games and we'll have exceeded last season in the table as well. I'll be bloody delighted if we do as well. (I'm sure one or two people think I sit on the sofa cheering on the opposition so I can be right on the internet. Nothing could be further from the truth). But draw three of them and lose to City - also not exactly hard to conceive - and we'll have fallen short of that "comfortable mid table" I predicted back in summer 2020.

 

[Simster]

In my opinion we've progressed slightly from last season. I'm genuinely saddened that Alzate has failed to kick on, and that Connolly has been terrible all season. On the other hand, the rise and rise of Bissouma and Big Bob have been a joy to watch.

For all that we've progressed, and I think we have (especially in 2021), this has been the most infuriating season I can remember and has seriously diminished my enjoyment watching the team. Yet paradoxically I hope the board doesn't change things because we are a goalscorer away from being more like West Ham or Leeds in terms of results.

Next season we will see whether Potter has simply been unlucky with his spoon-booted forwards or whether there really is a more fundamental problem - does the style of play actively promote profligacy somehow? I'm actually quite excited to find out and like everyone on here will be praying we find our shooting boots.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Definitely moved forward.

Injuries haven't helped and if all were fit our bench would be the best quality bench in the clubs history.

We've also unearthed more young talent this season than ever before.

 

[Swansman]

The great thing about having the privilege of being able to post articles on here is that I can look back on longer, more considered and less reactive stuff that I've written and post it back. Swanny chose to bounce a thread written at our lowest point of this season but he didn't bounce this, posted at the end of last season (in the middle of summer!).

https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/content.php?852-2019-20-Review-%96-Revolution-to-Evolution

I sit here writing this knowing we are safe. A 15th place finish and 41 points being our best ever haul. The new season is starting on September 12 and already, even though it too is likely to be behind closed doors, I’m excited.

Adam Webster, who had a difficult time in front of a crowd, has looked assured. There are reports of Adam Lallana signing and his role being partially in player development. And somehow we’ve managed to let the mighty Leeds United let us have their promising centre back Ben White.

But Burnley showed how Potterball may be taking over again. The squad is now evolving, as squads should. We’ve had a year of these tactics and look far more comfortable with them. Against a team that had a superb home record we won and won well, taking their lack of comfort on the ball and hesitancy at the back and using it to our advantage. A quicker paced possession game beckons. With Alzate to come back from injury and Bissouma scoring his first goal, the regular midfield two of Stephens and Propper may be broken up. Duffy could be on his way, with White the replacement. Oh, yeah. The prediction part. Well, we need a striker as Murray ages even further, but, if we get that, then I see only better football and a comfortable mid table finish next season. And none of this, now, is revolutionary. In extraordinary times, Graham Potter is leading a very ordinary evolution at Brighton and Hove Albion.

Hardly damning of him but based on a positional and points finish, with a nod to the long term project.

The issue is we've not fully delivered on it. And we might do. Surely it's more entertaining to thumb your nose at the critics at the end of a full season when you have, in fact, got either your best place finish or points finish (or both) rather than after a routine home win against a tired looking Leeds. The fact you're so keen to get it out there right now suggests you think that we may not.

Indeed I did not. I also didnt bounce the thread somewhere five-ten games into the season where, based on a few subpar performances, you suggested Dunk had grown tired of playing for Brighton.

In focussing on last night I’ve not included Dunk. Obviously he is “good enough” but he looked stale before the suspension. Perhaps there are only so many contract extensions you can do before the day job gets a bit samey?


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No, I bounced the "Alternative Giraffe Tracker" because there's lots of doomsayers, bedwetters and other kinds of people who do not believe the hard working people at various parts of the club would pull it off to secure a decent finish. Yes, as part of your desperate revisionism you're now insinuating that you thought it would be possible to get like 37-39 points but that 40 points was unachieveable. Nothing in your rhetorics in that thread however suggested that you thought the club could get anywhere near. People believing in it were "happy clappers".

Not going to lie - I think TB, PB, DA, GP and all of the players are doing a great job and more importantly working very hard to make this club as successful as possible. When someone like you or Justice or zefarelly, who are all eager to be vultures, get your "Fulham is more likely to get to 40 points than Brighton is", "sleepwalking towards relegation" and whatnot wrong, it is very satisfying. Now your Rainman-esque assessment of what is and what isnt progress - points, points, points - might end up on your side (and despite your vain fencing, you would like that to be the case), but in the end this season is more of a backlash than not to those taking every opportunity bemoaning Blooms "naivity not spending money on another striker", "GP just being a fraudulent PE teacher", "player X or player Y going to get us relegated".

The "happy clappers" saying that there's no panic, no need for rash decisions and that the boys would eventually sort it out - while not perhaps fulfilling all our pre-season hopes - in the end got it more right than those adamant in portraying owner, staff and/or players as incompetent. It is delightful in every way that their hard work paid off, and it is delightful watching you dive deep into your pockets to find new angles as to why things are shit or not as good as you want/deserve/whatever, like the "Leicester also got a new training facility... and they are in the Champions League" comparison. Moving the goalposts.

Why you are dead keen on that narrative, no ****ing idea but I'm sure the answer is out there somewhere in some forgotten pages in some forgotten Sigismund Freud letter collection. What I do know is that Brighton is going to play in the Premier League next season since the Fulham side "improving and we're not" failed to improve whereas Brighton did substantially from January onwards and hopefully will continue to do so in 21/22.

 

[Murray 17]

I've never understood this, "need 3 woeful teams" for us to survive, theory.

All league tables have teams at the top, and teams at the bottom. How far adrift teams are partly depends on how poor they are, but also, how good the teams at the top are. If you get 2 or 3 breaking away at the top, you'll usually get 2 or 3 breaking away at the bottom, too.

If we finished on 30 points, and still managed to stay up, it would indicate that there are some very good teams in the league who have taken points off everyone. But it still means we were not one of the 3 worst teams.

And anyway, with 37 points, and 3 of our 4 remaining games being against teams who we have a very good PL record against, I can see us topping 41 points.

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[Guinness Boy]

Indeed I did not. I also didnt bounce the thread somewhere five-ten games into the season where, based on a few subpar performances, you suggested Dunk had grown tired of playing for Brighton.

You totally missed the nuance and in joke. Dunk has renegotiated his contract pretty much every summer using his agent to tell certain Brighton fans that he might be off - Chelsea and Fulham both specifically mentioned. But then you miss a lot because you're not one of us.

Not going to lie - I think TB, PB, DA, GP and all of the players are doing a great job and more importantly working very hard to make this club as successful as possible. When someone like you or Justice or zefarelly, who are all eager to be vultures, get your "Fulham is more likely to get to 40 points than Brighton is",

You're very good at bouncing threads because you're a stalker with nothing better to do. Where have I said Fulham will get 40 points? I said (in reply to [MENTION=24867]chaileyjem[/MENTION] ) that we could finish in 17th (which is safe) on 37 because that's still mathematically possible. Fulham won't get 40.

"sleepwalking towards relegation" and whatnot wrong, it is very satisfying. Now your Rainman-esque assessment of what is and what isnt progress - points, points, points - might end up on your side (and despite your vain fencing, you would like that to be the case), but in the end this season is more of a backlash than not to those taking every opportunity bemoaning Blooms "naivity not spending money on another striker", "GP just being a fraudulent PE teacher", "player X or player Y going to get us relegated".

I've not said we are sleepwalking towards relegation recently but we've certainly flirted with it for much of the season. Let's face it, if we had a better home record, if we could beat some really, really poor teams below us and if we didn't have a squad stuffed full of players who couldn't finish a salad we'd probably be in the top ten.

Why you are dead keen on that narrative, no ****ing idea but I'm sure the answer is out there somewhere in some forgotten pages in some forgotten Sigismund Freud letter collection. What I do know is that Brighton is going to play in the Premier League next season since the Fulham side "improving and we're not" failed to improve whereas Brighton did substantially from January onwards and hopefully will continue to do so in 21/22.

So now you're measuring our improvement from January on based on points, wins and league positions. And you accuse me of relying purely on the results?

 

[darkwolf666]

I've never understood this, "need 3 woeful teams" for us to survive, theory.

All league tables have teams at the top, and teams at the bottom. How far adrift teams are partly depends on how poor they are, but also, how good the teams at the top are. If you get 2 or 3 breaking away at the top, you'll usually get 2 or 3 breaking away at the bottom, too.

If we finished on 30 points, and still managed to stay up, it would indicate that there are some very good teams in the league who have taken points off everyone. But it still means we were not one of the 3 worst teams.

And anyway, with 37 points, and 3 of our 4 remaining games being against teams who we have a very good PL record against, I can see us topping 41 points.

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All of the above...

Taking this a step further and on the evidence of this season, there must have been 19 shit teams in the Premier League for Liverpool to win it...

 

[Beach Hut]

Definitely improved in my view, however, we still seem to have to scrap to survive and unlikely results get us out of trouble as opposed to beating teams near the bottom.

If we could only improve on our results against lower teams we would not have to keep looking over a shoulders and as stated by others rely on the 3 shittier teams rule

 

[Swansman]

You totally missed the nuance and in joke. Dunk has renegotiated his contract pretty much every summer using his agent to tell certain Brighton fans that he might be off - Chelsea and Fulham both specifically mentioned. But then you miss a lot because you're not one of us.



You're very good at bouncing threads because you're a stalker with nothing better to do. Where have I said Fulham will get 40 points? I said (in reply to [MENTION=24867]chaileyjem[/MENTION] ) that we could finish in 17th (which is safe) on 37 because that's still mathematically possible. Fulham won't get 40.



I've not said we are sleepwalking towards relegation recently but we've certainly flirted with it for much of the season. Let's face it, if we had a better home record, if we could beat some really, really poor teams below us and if we didn't have a squad stuffed full pf players who couldn't finish a salad we'd probably be in the top ten.


So now you're measuring our improvement from January on based on points, wins and league positions. And you accuse me of relying purely on the results?

I doubt it was a joke - probably your usual revisionism - as it was in one of those "we're all going to die" threads, but no way of proving so just have to leave it at that.

I'm a stalker bouncing embarrasing threads by doomsayers & pessimists, you are a muppet frequently creating those threads. We all got our traits. When it comes to - quoting myself referring to you - "Fulham is more likely to get to 40 points than Brighton is", you wrote in the thread

The question is "how do we get to 40 points"? I expect Fulham to end up nearer to that total than us.

Did you say they were going to get 40? No, just that they were going to end up "nearer" - which I presume means not only "more likely to get near 40 points" but also "more likely than Brighton to get to 40 points". That you didnt say "sleepwalking towards towards relegation" however is entirely true, but others did.

I'm measuring the improvements in the areas of winning, points and position from January onwards based on winning, points and position, yes. However there were - to me - clear and obvious improvements in other areas before that. Wins, points and league position matters to me. Difference between you and me is that its not the only thing that matters. Its not the only way to measure progress and improvement, in my world.