Has the High Court abolished school term time?

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I asked my wife, who happens to be a primary school teacher in a deprived area, about this. Her response was that the vast majority of parents would recognise that taking your child out of school in term time would affect their child's education (playing catch up?). On the other side of the coin how unscrupulous it is of holiday and travel companies to ensure that their highest rates are always during school holiday periods - perhaps they need to be punished for blatant profiteering.

That's good to hear!

Regarding the profiteering, that's just the 'free market'. The solution, as someone said, may be to let schools arrange their term times and holiday times on an individual basis. Cheers.

 

[LlcoolJ]

There needed to be some common sense applied. Schools used to be able to grant authorised absence on a case by case basis and provided they realised that a child would not be affected by being taken out of school during term time they could make that decision. Now the "extenuating circumstances" are much more rigid and the same rules are applied to the kid at the top of their class with exemplary attendance and who is always on time as the kid who is off "sick" every other week, can't read or write properly and is always late (not the kid's fault obviously). Something needed to give as it made no sense at all.

There's also a MASSIVE difference between an 8 year old missing a week of school as opposed to 15 year old who is studying for their GCSEs but again, common sense is not allowed to be applied.

As mentioned though, in the vast majority of these cases it's the profiteering of the travel companies that cause the situation. I know of several parents who have been happy to pay the fine as paying £100 or whatever is better than paying an extra £1000 for their holiday.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It isn't the cost of holidays as we've never gone on a package holiday.
It's when parents can get time off of work.

 

[LlcoolJ]

That's good to hear!

Regarding the profiteering, that's just the 'free market'. The solution, as someone said, may be to let schools arrange their term times and holiday times on an individual basis. Cheers.

It's not a solution though as that could mean that parents with kids at different schools could end up with their holidays being at totally different times. This doesn't affect us as we only have one kid but it would affect many.

 

[darkwolf666]

It was the court that defined 90% (or 92%) as acceptable, not me (if that's what you're implying - always so hard to read nuance). I suspect that one needs to factor in the context here. There will be kids whose attendance is 50% or less. The average is probably skewed down because of them. So statistically 92% is probably 'good'. Even though some kids may have a near 100% record (mine certainly was, back in the middle ages when I went to school).

The laws we have were brought in to give the courts redress to deal with the fickle parents who were letting their kids truant (various horror stories in the 190s; I think this was a John Major era initiative) or repeatedly taking them out of school for fatuous self-indulgent reasons and mouthing off about their right to do what they want. I'm not sure how effective the laws have been; have the bad stats fallen, and how many parents are actually fined? I really don't know.

The collateral damage is that 'middle class' parents who want to take their kids skiing in Spring, and to Tuscany in Autumn, and who would probably bring the nanny to do some tutoring with them in the mornings anyway, feel somewhat disobliged to be criminalized for this, especially given an awareness that parents who send their kids to school without breakfast, or even not at all, largely get away with their neglect.

Regardless, 92% is too low a threshold for 'virtuous parenting' in my book. And I never took my lad out of school for holiday reasons. I know plenty who did, though, and got away with it.

You seem to all be ignoring the fact that children go to "work" in a hotbed of bugs and viruses... Many of the illnesses that time is taken off for is for child illnesses, illnesses that generally don't often affect adults.
For instance I have never heard of one adult that I have worked with take time off for having nits. Whereas it is many schools policy that a child shouldn't attend when they have nits.

I am sure there are other illnesses and incidents that could explain time off school, other than bad parenting!

 

[Tricky Dicky]

As a parent I have no issue with this. The whole idea of fines for holidays was always political anyway.

I watched the scruffy haired councillor from the Isle of White trying to justify their actions and suggesting a child not being in school affects other pupils and staff. Strange how so many schools are closed for voting - surely that effects children's education - or indeed the number of inset days in term time. Make inset days in school holidays always. It's a do as we say not as we do attitude from the authorities. Remind me the average number of sick days council employees take each year ?

The argument there - and I don't much care either way - is that for voting days or inset days, everyone is off at the same time, the perceived disruption is in catching up one child at the expense of the others in the class

 

[Thunder Bolt]

You seem to all be ignoring the fact that children go to "work" in a hotbed of bugs and viruses... Many of the illnesses that time is taken off for is for child illnesses, illnesses that generally don't often affect adults.
For instance I have never heard of one adult that I have worked with take time off for having nits. Whereas it is many schools policy that a child shouldn't attend when they have nits.

I am sure there are other illnesses and incidents that could explain time off school, other than bad parenting!

If a child vomits, they can be better the same day, but schools have a policy whereby they have to stay away for 48 hours, even when they are obviously well again.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The argument there - and I don't much care either way - is that for voting days or inset days, everyone is off at the same time, the perceived disruption is in catching up one child at the expense of the others in the class

Not all schools close for voting so so kids miss a days school whilst others don't. Hardly consistent.

 

[Diablo]

. On the other side of the coin how unscrupulous it is of holiday and travel companies to ensure that their highest rates are always during school holiday periods - perhaps they need to be punished for blatant profiteering.

Rubbish..It`s simply supply and demand...When there is little demand companies that have flights/Hotels booked, slash prices to increase demand...In school holidays demand highest so no slashed prices.

Any business during slack periods offers bargains whilst when busy no discount offered...

 

[Brovion]

Following yesterday's ruling, has school term time been abolished? It's seems ridiculous that parents can take their children off on holiday willy nilly. One idea might be to scrap half term to make up for lost learning time. I think we are on the road to anarchy.

Oh what a load of bollocks. We took the kids out of school with impunity for holidays and they're education didn't suffer in the slightest. They got all As and Bs in their school exams, then at uni my son got a First, and my daughter got a First, two Masters and a PhD

So whatever your objection is to holidays in school time please don't use the blanket "their education will suffer" argument.

 

[nicko31]

Can't really see a problem with allowing up to 2 weeks out of school at the parents discretion, yet again its the state trying to control our lives.

Amazing parents have been jailed for refusing to pay the fine, it could only ever happen in this country

 

[Acker79]

The court accepted that the kid's overall 90% attendance was indicative of an otherwise excellent record. Therefore the parents hadn't 'done anything wrong. Utter nonsense. If I was absent from work 10% of the time (one day every fortnight) I'd have been sacked years ago.

Not necessarily. Typical holiday entitlement under UK law for a 5 day work week is 28 days a year. If you use up your holiday entitlement you are, in fact, averaging more than one day off every fortnight. You are legally entitled to that time off, so wouldn't be sacked.

 

[Acker79]

As to the court case, my understanding is that the decision of the courts hinges on the term 'regular attendance' or regularly attending, and because of the current vagueness of that term, they found in the father's favour. As I understand the article, there are now moves to narrow down that definition.

 

[spence]

Can't really see a problem with allowing up to 2 weeks out of school at the parents discretion, yet again its the state trying to control our lives.

Amazing parents have been jailed for refusing to pay the fine, it could only ever happen in this country

This

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Oh what a load of bollocks. We took the kids out of school with impunity for holidays and they're education didn't suffer in the slightest. They got all As and Bs in their school exams, then at uni my son got a First, and my daughter got a First, two Masters and a PhD

So whatever your objection is to holidays in school time please don't use the blanket "their education will suffer" argument.

This

Can't really see a problem with allowing up to 2 weeks out of school at the parents discretion, yet again its the state trying to control our lives.

Amazing parents have been jailed for refusing to pay the fine, it could only ever happen in this country

And this.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Friend of mine, a hippy chick in Byron Bay, Oz, just decided to take her three kids, aged, 8, 10 and 12 out of school for six months and went off travelling with them. Never did any of them any harm, they learnt more about the world than they ever would have done in school and they all graduated from Uni with flying colours. Not saying it would work for everyone, but needs a bit of flexibility built into the system. Compromise would be that the kid had to take homework on holiday with them. After that, it would be down to whether the parents are chavs or not.

 

[Brovion]

Oh what a load of bollocks. We took the kids out of school with impunity for holidays and they're education didn't suffer in the slightest. They got all As and Bs in their school exams, then at uni my son got a First, and my daughter got a First, two Masters and a PhD

So whatever your objection is to holidays in school time please don't use the blanket "their education will suffer" argument.

Ha! Just re-reading this and I notice I've used "they're" instead of "their". My parents NEVER took me out of school for holidays, not even the odd day off. Proof that going to school every single day makes you thick!

 

[GT49er]

I was shocked by the decision.

For once the high court has shown outstanding judgement and common sense. For children, a family holiday can be an enriching (and educational, in the broadest sense) experience, worth far more than one single week in primary school (not advocating this for secondary schools). And it's common sense for parents who cannot choose when to have their annual holiday, or (the mostly scenario these days) can just about afford a week in a caravan in June or early September, but not in August when it costs three or four times as much.
Pathetic hand-wringing from the government and the education department (who are planning to change the law again, an act of spite), and sadly, some teachers seem to be coming out being all too precious.
Once again, well done the High Court judges - common sense has (until the government meddlers overturn it) prevailed!

 

[Hampster Gull]

Bloody EU

 

[beorhthelm]

Agree entirely, reduce summer to 4 weeks, but stagger them across a longer period around the country.

Give Scotland July, north starts 2 weeks later, Midlands 2 weeks after, then wales, then London, then south.

Would reduce demand and stop the jacking of prices.

i dont know why people seem to think this is due to travel companies fleecing the public, the entire industry across Europe relies on a couple of months to make a living. every country takes off on holiday in July and August, staggering holidays here isnt going to reduce demand in Med resorts full of Germans and others.

the idea of a week out of school impacts education of the pupil or others is so condesending i cant believe they try to make the argument. do sick children have terrible education, or do they catch up... its the latter.