[Albion] Has anyone blamed the Players yet?

[matumaini]

I was amazed when Knockaert had space ahead of him to run into, then made a pass the whole width of the pitch (at the half way line) to Bong... who did nothing with it, again?

Just like Montoya, Stephens, Gross etc etc etc etc. Blinkered

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[seagulls4ever]

Illegitimate son - did you also mean ( if we are going there) - Gross, Stephens, also! Not sure what Bong did wrong for the last few matches although hey let's keep banging on - boring.

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Bong is a great defender but isn't really up to standard going forward. He's not able to release the ball quickly to find a man in space and his crossing is generally pretty poor. However, it can't be easy for him when he's playing on the same side as the lazy Locadia who often leaves him exposed (and IMO is below-par in many other aspects of his game as well). That said, when AJ came on, a far more hard working and intelligent player, Bong was still not able to combine well with him (despite AJ being in many good situations to receive the ball).

 

[Arkwright]

I blame the players, surely they must be training these formations and systems day in day out and yet currently they can't or don't play to it. Some of the players simply don't appear to fit in or are just far too lazy. We play some great stuff for short periods of the game and yet we appear not to be able to do it for the full ninety minutes. Look at recent games like West Ham (a), Man U (a), Fulham (a) and yesterday we dominated for short periods of the game and yet couldn't make the most of the opportunities created.
I'm sick of the Bong bashing when to me the fault clearly lies with Locadia who gives him little to no assistance. Bong put in another huge shift yesterday up and down the flank, often the most advanced player, yes his crossing isn't brilliant but at least he is trying to put crosses in.
Currently the players need to roll up their sleeves and simply work harder off the ball and show more discipline when we have the ball. Far to slow both on and off the ball the players need to man up and be more accountable for performance and results.

 

[BLOCK F]

In a modern club set up without a lone tyrant running all key playing/recruitment decisions (Fergie, Wenger), the entire buck does not stop with the manager.

I’d argue that our available squad quality is patchy to say the least. CH was just one voice of 4 in the recruitment quartet, plus like Hudd the club have tried to recruit in a financially prudent way. In contrast to the Fulham and cheating Wolves approach of signing a whole load of proven names.

Fair point, but you tell that to the numerous managers who 'get the gooner' when things go tits up!
Like it or not, the manager is the figurehead and is the poor sod at the sharp end. It is a harsh but well rewarded profession and managers are under no illusions......it is results that matter.
I understand that we have tried to be prudent in our signings, but would it be too much to ask those who make the decisions to try and sign a couple of proven Prem players?
Nevertheless, what goes on on the field is primarily the players' and manager's responsibility, as it has to be.
You and I and all the other fans are not privy to the inner machinations of the club, but I can bet there is quite a bit of consternation going on behind the scenes.
CH has stated that he is happy with the squad; well, if he is, then he'd better get them to perform. In his defence though, I wonder if he really is happy with the way the new signings have turned out, so far.
Anyway, let us hope we can screw a few more points out and survive this season. However, I still feel that CH is limited in his ability to take the club much further. As I said, it is a tough gig!
As I have previously stated, it doesn't matter what any of us keyboard warriors believe, it boils down to what is acceptable to Tony Bloom.

 

[amexer]

I blame the players. Manager would accept number of chances we had in any future game. Basic errors. Dunks slip ( not first time ) Dunks aimless long ball that went to defender and led to goal, Dunk trying to play Barnes offside.. Stevens miss tackle that also led to the goal. After looking at highlights March had time to hit any part of goal but shot straight at keeper.

 

[Icy Gull]

Leaving the Amex yesterday, piss wet through and freezing cold, I was naturally down about everything. I then came home, had a hot shower, put some warm dry clothes on - and sparked up NSC on the old computer to see what the thoughts of you good people were...

I read the 'Hughton Out' threads, then the 'We played well' thread - and all the others varying between the next apocalypse coming and blind faith and loyalty, then thought I'd give myself a nights sleep on the whole thing so I could have a rational view on it all. Here are my calm and sane thoughts, for what they are worth :

* If you actually think about the way the team played, we definitely intended to attack. We came out of the traps snapping like terriers from the kick off - so, did Chris Hughton tell them to play it safe from the off, then? It would appear not.

* Dunk slipped and gifted them the first goal. He didn't try to slip, it was an accident. Mountain to climb from there on because Burnley had the measure of us.

* Some brilliant goalkeeping against some fairly standard PL quality strikes and headers. Easy to cancel out.

So, then I start to think about the players. Not individually (although Locadia is the laziest player I've seen in a while and Bong must be Hughton's illegitimate Son the way he keeps playing him, but we digress) but... as a team.

Did anyone see Duffy (in the second half in front of the West/North corner) throw his arms up in despair, with nobody moving or wanting the pass he was trying to make? How many times do I see a player with the ball wanting to pass it - then all of our players just bloody static, expecting the man on the ball to run into a space where he can pass it? You then end up with a panicked pass which is hit too hard, or an inaccurate pass which takes 1-2 extra touches to control - after which the opposing player is already on them, then it's yet another back pass to start it all over again. Sometimes it's like groundhog day watching the games. I can't help but think that if our players put more effort in, covered more ground, ran into space to receive passes, lost their markers and ran the opposition around more we'd get better results against teams around us.

In 2017/18 we ranked overall 8th out of 20 teams for distance covered. We ran, we made space, we won games - and we comfortably stayed up.... As it stands so far in the 2018/19 we currently rank a shocking 18th out of 20 teams.

So - in my view we have a handful of genuine PL quality players, a handful of lazy players who we can't tell are PL or Championship quality, a handful of Championship quality players, and a handful of Championship quality players who could be PL level. Beyond that, we have some works in progress.

Looking at the sentences above, does this really not point to coaching - and the players themselves? Is that the first area we should point the fingers at, or do we just go for the option of blaming the Manager for not getting the best out of the players and making them want to play better? A lazy reference here, I'll give you that - but the same players under Moanrinho are a totally different proposition under Solksjaer. The work rate has doubled, and the results have followed.

I'm not sure if I've got my point across too well, but in essence I have no serious issues with Hughton and his actual tactics. I do have issues with player selection, and I certainly have issues with player effort.

Over and out.

Good points but CH has to take some responsibilty for players not making themselves available for passes. It feels like they almost expect it to go backwards or sideways which has to be down to coaching? I totally agree that the defender bringing the ball out normally has static players making no effort to run into space, when they do they are nearly always ignored as the ball goes sideways or back. Breaking quickly as a team is a rare event. Manager shoulders responsibility for tactics and if they aren’t carried out he needs to change the players which as we know doesn’t happen much, so yes CH is as responsible as the players imo.

We look lost tactically in recent Premier League games but we have tried to change the way we play to a degree. I don’t have the answers

 

[Weststander]

Fair point, but you tell that to the numerous managers who 'get the gooner' when things go tits up!
Like it or not, the manager is the figurehead and is the poor sod at the sharp end. It is a harsh but well rewarded profession and managers are under no illusions......it is results that matter.
I understand that we have tried to be prudent in our signings, but would it be too much to ask those who make the decisions to try and sign a couple of proven Prem players?
Nevertheless, what goes on on the field is primarily the players' and manager's responsibility, as it has to be.
You and I and all the other fans are not privy to the inner machinations of the club, but I can bet there is quite a bit of consternation going on behind the scenes.
CH has stated that he is happy with the squad; well, if he is, then he'd better get them to perform. In his defence though, I wonder if he really is happy with the way the new signings have turned out, so far.
Anyway, let us hope we can screw a few more points out and survive this season. However, I still feel that CH is limited in his ability to take the club much further. As I said, it is a tough gig!
As I have previously stated, it doesn't matter what any of us keyboard warriors believe, it boils down to what is acceptable to Tony Bloom.

Totally agree, managers 99% of the time get the blame. Chairman and CEO’s don’t vote against themselves. Occasionally other action is taken ... David Burke’s dismissal.

CH is a positive guy, a winner. It would be unlike him, and bad for morale, if he openly mentioned squad limitations. Only a few managers do that, Mourinho and Poyet, and it soon ends in tears.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Whatever the merits of CH's leadership, we certainly have more than our fair share of players unable/unwilling to perform at PL level. That said, I'm still feeling confident of getting away with it this season.

 

[Weststander]

Whatever the merits of CH's leadership, we certainly have more than our fair share of players unable/unwilling to perform at PL level. That said, I'm still feeling confident of getting away with it this season.

Unable, in a large proportion of games.

 

[Tubby-McFat-Fuc]

I've noticed over the past few weeks, the players body language is all wrong. It's as if they have given up.

Do I blame the players, no.

Because I would not pick Bong over Barnado
I would not pick a slow and out of form Gross over Bissouma
I would not play a striker on the wing, when we have two wingers on the bench.
I would not play Dale Stephens over anyone.
I would not play a formation that kills any chance of any flair players

Its a stagnant formation, that clearly doesn't work. Fair enough keepers have done well in the last few games, but yesterday Heaton made one world class save (from Gross' flick) and others you would expect a top goalkeeper to make.

 

[Tubby-McFat-Fuc]

CH is a positive guy, a winner. It would be unlike him, and bad for morale, if he openly mentioned squad limitations.

But what right would he have to comment on squad limitations, when he starts Bong over Bernardo? When he starts a striker on the wing and has a £16m winger on the bench? When Stephens and Gross have all the pace of a snail totally out of form, and Bissouma one of the most exciting players we have ever owned, warms the bench? I cannot see the club giving Hughton multipile millions again to spend, if he doesn't use the players he buys!

 

[Bodian]

I've noticed over the past few weeks, the players body language is all wrong. It's as if they have given up.

It co-incides with the timespan where many on here were saying 'done enough, safe already'. If we were thinking that, then so would the players be, and once that mindset kicks in, the effort drops a little. Been here before haven't we?

 

[PoG]

Is this another I hate Locadia thread?

 

[albionfan37]

I agree.

Regarding Bong though he had so much of the ball yesterday it was almost as if Burnley intended it.

They judged that right. No end product from his numerous crosses and possession in really dangerous areas.

Can’t disagree with that. He had a lot of ball and done nothing with it

 

[whosthedaddy]

I've noticed over the past few weeks, the players body language is all wrong. It's as if they have given up.

Do I blame the players, no.

Because I would not pick Bong over Barnado
I would not pick a slow and out of form Gross over Bissouma
I would not play a striker on the wing, when we have two wingers on the bench.
I would not play Dale Stephens over anyone.
I would not play a formation that kills any chance of any flair players

Its a stagnant formation, that clearly doesn't work. Fair enough keepers have done well in the last few games, but yesterday Heaton made one world class save (from Gross' flick) and others you would expect a top goalkeeper to make.

Correct on most points, although I don't believe (yet) that the players have given up, it's just that some fringe players are being undermined by performing well when they get a chance to play, yet they are still not being picked for the starting eleven.

Also, the positions some are being asked to play in are not matched to their skills, hence they don't perform to the best of their ability.

 

[Tubby-McFat-Fuc]

Correct on most points, although I don't believe (yet) that the players have given up, it's just that some fringe players are being undermined by performing well when they get a chance to play, yet they are still not being picked for the starting eleven.

Also, the positions some are being asked to play in are not matched to their skills, hence they don't perform to the best of their ability.

So that's down to the manager.

 

[whosthedaddy]

'So that's down to the manager'

Yes, you are correct in that assessment, but we can't ignore the fact that this is a team game and collectively you win or lose, it's just that the manager gets blamed in most of these scenarios and that shouldn't necessarily always be the case.

 

[ac gull]

My summary of yesterday would be Burnley "wanted it" more than us

Same way that we "wanted it" more than Man Utd in win that kept us up last season

Duffy admits this in post match interview

Hughton kept us up with 4 points out of Spurs and Man Utd home games

Norwich binned Hughton with 4 or 5 games left against "the big" teams and without him still went down

We would be daft to dispense with Hughton


A lot of clubs seemingly have owners with more money than sense - thankfully were not such a club

 

[The Man from Del Monte]

Yes.

 

[Tubby-McFat-Fuc]

'So that's down to the manager'

Yes, you are correct in that assessment, but we can't ignore the fact that this is a team game and collectively you win or lose, it's just that the manager gets blamed in most of these scenarios and that shouldn't necessarily always be the case.

I shouldn't always be the case, but it certainly is in this case.

If players are being asked to play out of position, or "are being asked to play in are not matched to their skills, hence they don't perform to the best of their ability" then in what scenario is that not down to the manager?