[Football] Harry Kane,Glenn Murray and England W/Cup.

[Silverhatch]

Problem with England is we're always building for some mythical (Nirvana) future event where all the planets align and we win. **** that. Gareth this is tournament football over a month so please (1) pick players in form (2) pick players who play in their positions (3) pick players who will work with the tactics you want to employ (4) if at all possible pick players who give you the option to adapt so that if Plan A doesn't work you have some flexibility to produce a plan B. And please, don't pick players just because of the badge on their ****ing shirt. If Murray gets to 15+ Premier League goals then he should be mentioned irrespective of his age or the club he plays for.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Oh ffs, Kane and Vardy, and any three from Sturridge, Wellbeck, Rashford, Carroll and Barnes. And probably Lingard too. You may not like it but they are all ahead of Murray in the pecking order, and because of his age Murray won't be changing that any time now.

Sturridge is injured
Welbeck hasn't been playing and hasn't scored
Carroll is injured
Barnes has played for Austrian u20's and is being monitored by them at the moment.

So maybe less of the "ffs" ? You managed to name 3 fit strikers who I would agree are ahead of him.

Lingard will go as a midfielder.

So do you have 2 more fit English strikers? "FFS"

 

[BBassic]

They had a poll on Talksport yesterday with the question being should Murray go to the World Cup. Something like 24% said yes which prompted whichever loud mouth **** was on air to label his listeners as football snobs.

Made me chuckle.

 

[Gwylan]

Sturridge is injured
Welbeck hasn't been playing and hasn't scored
Carroll is injured
Barnes has played for Austrian u20's and is being monitored by them at the moment.

So maybe less of the "ffs" ? You managed to name 3 fit strikers who I would agree are ahead of him.

Four: Kane, Vardy, Rashford and Barnes. And you're wrong about Welbeck being injured, he's played in most of Arsenal's recent games. So, that's five.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

The English premier league goal scorers this season. Just to lay some facts out there. I've put in just strikers so people like Ali, Lingard and Sterling are omitted as I imagine they will go as wide players/midfielders and not centre forwards (I would argue England would take 3 or 4 "centre forwards".

Kane 24
Vardy 13
Murray 11
Wilson 7
Austin 6
Deeney 5
Gayle 5
Abraham 4

Some other notable players

Defoe 3
Welbeck 3
Andy Carroll 2
Sturridge 2
Walcott 2

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Four: Kane, Vardy, Rashford and Barnes. And you're wrong about Welbeck being injured, he's played in most of Arsenal's recent games. So, that's five.

So Welbecks return of 3 goals is even worse. 19 games (11 as sub)

Excellent.

Oh and Barnes is likely to play for Austria. Their national team manager has been watching him recently. He is classified as "Austrian" on the official premier league site, hence him not being in my English filtered list.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Can I clarify, I don't think Glenn Murray SHOULD be anywhere near the England team......but based on this season (going INTO a world cup), how the hell can anyone argue Sturridge, Welbeck or Carroll in front of him?

And for Barnes, even if he were to play for England....he has FIVE goals. Less then half of GM's.

 

[beefypigeon]

I think if Southgate wants to take a 'plan b' style target man on the plane as part of the squad as back up to the world class Kane, then there is no better player available of this type than Glenn Murray.

Sadly I don't think he will take him, favouring the tried and tested Welbeck despite not getting much playing time at all at Arsenal.

 

[Gwylan]

So Welbecks return of 3 goals is even worse. 19 games (11 as sub)

Excellent.

Oh and Barnes is likely to play for Austria. Their national team manager has been watching him recently. He is classified as "Austrian" on the official premier league site, hence him not being in my English filtered list.

If Barnes were selected for England, Austria wouldn't get a look in. Do you really think a player would turn down a chance to play in the World Cup finals to play for a no-hoper team that he has a spurious connection to? If he's wanted by England, he'd go.

Welbeck has a poor record this season but that's not how England works: he's played loads of times so he'll get the nod. I know that's crazy but that's what happens.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Yes, I'm pretty sure you can - and he would be one of (more than) five ahead of Murray. Apart from anything else, age is against Murray, and pace. Sorry, blue and white tinted spectacle wearers.

Why is age against him for a one off tournament? No one is suggesting he is the future of England's strike force.

It's a sheer miracle he has outscored all these other BRILLIANT nominations despite his "age and lack of pace" which I continually read......and that's over a season.

He wouldn't start. He would only be brought on if we NEED a goal and are flinging balls into the box. At the moment, I can't think who else I would want coming on than an in-form striker wanting to make a crack at his one international chance.

 

[Triggaaar]

I'm biased. Yes. But the argument is starting to become a no brainer.

Let me clarify this first. I don't think Glenn Murray SHOULD be good enough to play for England. We should not be in that situation. When I first fell in love with football people like Ian Wright, Andy Cole, Robbie Fowler would MISS OUT because there were people ahead of them.

But when you look at the 2 facts, 1 He is FLYING and 2 We have NO ONE ELSE apart from Kane and Vardy as regular scorers, then I can't really see how you argue it.

I don't even think he would get on the pitch BUT if you are 1 down, bombarding the opposition and lobbing balls into the box....who BETTER to bring on at the moment?

Sturridge is injured. Walcott doesn't score. Rooney is retired. Carroll is injured. Abraham doesn't play. Solanke doesn't play.

Seriously, apart from Kane, Vardy and Rashford (he will go even if he doesn't play for United), what STRIKERS are ahead of him?

GET.HIM.ON.THAT.PLANE

This.

While I'm delighted Murray's doing well for us, he's not at the level England should be when going into a WC, but the simple fact is that there aren't 4 better English strikers.

 

[Simster]

In order for Murray to be considered (and I agree that he should be considered), he will need to be even more prolific than he is now. He has had games where he has been profligate, notably Liverpool at home but also Man Utd away. Until last week he hadn't scored against a top 6 side (and even then Cech fluffed it), and I think you have to look at the opposition when deciding whether a player is worth taking.

This is where Vardy is worth his weight in gold - the absolute opposite of a flat track bully.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Welbeck has a poor record this season but that's not how England works: he's played loads of times so he'll get the nod. I know that's crazy but that's what happens.

Right, but that's two different arguments.

I'm arguing that Welbeck SHOULN'T be picked ahead of Murray. I can't see how that can be argued based on this season.

Whether he is or isn't is a different matter. I don't know what Southgate is thinking.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Why is Barnes suddenly higher in the pecking order than Murray? Fitness? Meh.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Face it, England's sole chance of making any kind of impression on this year's World Cup depends entirely on Kane not breaking a metatarsal between now and then. Even that laughably soft draw wouldn't be enough.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Why is Barnes suddenly higher in the pecking order than Murray? Fitness? Meh.

Indeed.

The situation where Barnes/Murray would be introduced into the game is where the team are desperately needing a goal. Do I want the guy with 5 goals but tries really hard .....or the guy with 11 for a promoted team.

Such a difficult one.

 

[Simster]

Right, but that's two different arguments.

I'm arguing that Welbeck SHOULN'T be picked ahead of Murray. I can't see how that can be argued based on this season.

Whether he is or isn't is a different matter. I don't know what Southgate is thinking.

Not on this season, but Welbeck has been useful for 4 or 5 years. On the other hand, you could easily argue that Murray has had half a prolific season at the top level and even then he is 34 years old - not necessarily a glittering CV from the point of view of the England manager. That said, if he is at it for the rest of the season, scores goals against the top 4 (who we still have to play), he could yet prove his worth.

Regardless, I will be incredibly pissed off if Sturridge or Carroll end up going instead of him.

 

[Triggaaar]

Oh ffs, Kane and Vardy, and any three from Sturridge, Wellbeck, Rashford, Carroll and Barnes.

Kane and Vardy obviously. Also makes sense for Rashford to go. Sturridge (injured) hasn't scored 10 goals in a season since 2013/14, and Carroll only managed 10 goals once, back in 2010/2011. Still, that's better than Wellbeck and Barnes who have never scored 10. At the moment Murray is better than any of them.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Even if he's fit then I wouldn't have Sturridge in the squad. It pains me to say it as I was a big fan, but his attitude is awful. Massive waste of a huge talent. He'd be guaranteed to pick up "a knock" in training and not last the tournament.

I don't think Murray will get picked but I've yet to see a valid argument as to why he shouldn't.

We really are scraping the barrel when it comes to strikers though.

 

[Gwylan]

Why is Barnes suddenly higher in the pecking order than Murray? Fitness? Meh.

Indeed.

The situation where Barnes/Murray would be introduced into the game is where the team are desperately needing a goal. Do I want the guy with 5 goals but tries really hard .....or the guy with 11 for a promoted team.

A couple of things. When you talk about comparing Murray with Barnes, you're ignoring the fact that Murray is the penalty taker and Barnes isn't: in open play, their records are much closer.

Secondly, Murray will be nearly 35 by the time of the WC, he'll have no future in the England team; Barnes, if he were picked and made a go of it, would be around for the next WC too.

Finally, Barnes is a completely different type of player, an in-your-face forward who'd make life tricky for defenders, Murray is a goal poacher.

In truth, neither Barnes nor Murray is really international class but I wouldn't mind betting that Barnes is closer to the team than Murray is.