[Misc] Happy 70th Birthday NHS - Best Of British Bar NONE

[ferring seagull]

Thumbs up with Knobs on !

 

[alfredmizen]

Id like to know why the tories took away the stipend or whatever its called that allowed nurses to study for their degree free of charge , disgusting.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Id like to know why the tories took away the stipend or whatever its called that allowed nurses to study for their degree free of charge , disgusting.

Bursary. If you were a care worker in your forties working in The NHS having found your forte, what incentive is there now to train to become a nurse when you're going to get saddled with debt in middle age? Utter stupidity.

 

[alfredmizen]

Bursary. If you were a care worker in your forties working in The NHS having found your forte, what incentive is there now to train to become a nurse when you're going to get saddled with debt in middle age? Utter stupidity.

yep

 

[mxs_harrow]

Something this country should be really proud of. Without doubt the envy of every country in the world.

Employer ---------------------------------------------------Employees
United States Department of Defence .................3.2 million
People's Liberation Army .................................2.3 million
Walmart .................................................................2.3 million
McDonald's .........................................................1.9 million (Includes Franchises)
National Health Service .........................................2.1 million
China National Petroleum Corporation .................1.5 million
State Grid Corporation of China .........................1.5 million
Indian Railways .................................................1.4 million
Indian Armed Forces .........................................1.3 million
Hon Hai Precision Industry (Foxconn) .................1.2 million

I suppose by reducing UK demand for McDonalds meals and hence potentially reducing the number of McDonalds employees, arguably NHS staffing numbers and workload would not be under so much pressure.

There is also a BBC link or statistic somewhere that says patients are not heeding dietary and health advice as quite a large proportion of NHS are overweight and or obese/clinically obese themselves. Which is understandable, given the stress, the ageing of the staff population and the lack of free time they have due to the long hours.

However, a lot of NHS staff work double, night or weekend shifts to help maximise their income and it is not like the private (non-health) sector where we work extra time for no charge on a professional day basis.

My insight into the NHS is partially through the eyes of my wife, an NHS matron who leaves for work before 0730 and who rarely returns before 2130 and who has been a ward manager at one of the largest and busiest outer London hospitals for over 20 years .The calculated official bed occupancy rate on her wards is over 100%, such is the demand.

She has lived through all the " changes" and "rebooting/rebranding" and political and "project/consultancy-driven cost-saving" initiatives over that time, which must seem like GroundHog Day .

There have been extra layers of "management" and legions of external consultants ( who aren't really consultants - maybe interns) also drafted in to clog the main care processes ( and use up budgets) over that time.

It all boils down to how many of the critical mass of trained staff required are still dedicated and driven enough to remain sufficiently professional to provide service and cover in increasingly difficult circumstances for what is effectively a tsunami of demand.

The demands and feedback from users ( and their relatives) changed incrementally when National Insurance contributions were raised in the early 2000s to "fund" the NHS and patients were more critical as a result. Successive governments making the NHS a political football ramped up the mood music further and have put further pressure on staff.

Another idea would be to take the TV cameras and "celebrities" currently clogging up several hospitals and A &E departments and let the overworked staff get on with their jobs.

The ageing of the population, the increase in unhealthy living - there is an Italian phrase that describes digging your own grave with your teeth that covers it - the diverse and demanding health challenges from diabetes, makes the NHS a bottomless pit, financially.

The talk of budget over runs and deficits is farcical; a ward my wife was responsible for exceeded it's dressing/bandages budget in month 5 of the financial year. The only way to stop the overspend would be to let patients bleed to death.

We pay of lot of money in National Insurance and Income Tax in this country. In Germany and Switzerland you pay considerable deductions and/or insurance premiums, but at least you know where the money is directed to.

An example of stripping out layers of cost, management and bureaucracy I spotted a while ago ( although cannot recall which country - maybe Switzerland) was schools - particularly primary schools - did not have a "head" teacher and the school was run by the teachers agreeing timetables/budgets/operational details themselves.

So maybe stripping up a management ( and cost) layer or two would not go amiss.

A last point - on private hospitals - the private hospital up the road from your NHS hospital probably uses the same consultants, surgeons and anaethesists that work at the NHS trust.

An elderly neighbour who had a private hip operation contracted an infection that would have been properly screened for at the NHS, and was subsequently bedridden until her eventual death. It was the NHS ambulances ( at NHS cost) that had to come out to her multiple times when she fell out of bed with her frail 90 year old husband unable to remediate the situation on his own.....

 

[lawros left foot]

Id like to know why the tories took away the stipend or whatever its called that allowed nurses to study for their degree free of charge , disgusting.

My daughter finished her Geography degree and decided she would like to train as a midwife (yes, I know), she applied,was accepted, then Cameron’s government decided to end the bursary. My daughter couldn’t afford an extra 25 grand student loan, on top of the 27 she’s already got, so, no midwifery course for her. It’s extremely short sighted

 

[Westdene Seagull]

My daughter finished her Geography degree and decided she would like to train as a midwife (yes, I know), she applied,was accepted, then Cameron’s government decided to end the bursary. My daughter couldn’t afford an extra 25 grand student loan, on top of the 27 she’s already got, so, no midwifery course for her. It’s extremely short sighted

I'm no expert but surely the answer is to tie the students to work for the NHS for x number of years and they get the debt wiped ? Similar to where I work, if I get paid training then I'm tied to the company for x months and if I do leave in that time I pay a percentage of the training costs back.

 

[portlock seagull]

That is total bollocks. Seriously

At least you admit in a later post "I'm not expert though, probably like most of us."

I work in a big London teaching hospital (I am a university employee, not a medic, but I teach medics and do medical research). I can assure you it hasn't been privatised. The private public partnership so favoured by Mr Tony is part of the 'flexible and pragmatic' approach that contrasts with the 'nationalise everything' policy of Corbyn, which is so very popular with you and other political sages on NSC (that was irony, btw), and the (secret) 'run it down and flog it off' approach favoursed by any right-thinking tory (a rational outlook, albeit one that I don't share). (How I miss Mr Tony - pragmatic beats doctrinaire every day for me, even if he was a fool in some respects). Mr Tony's approach hasn't eaten much if at all into frontline healthcare delivery as far as I can see, although it affects purchasing and services. That said, where I work the privatised amenities are a vast improvement on what was there before. Of course things like charging an arm and a leg for telephone, TV and parking are mean and cheapskate. But it isn't like we are either forced to sit in our own shit, or rent the bed on an hourly rate. Anyway, I don't think this is supposed to be a politics thread, or a 'who ****ed the NHS the most' thread (it is the tories, by the way, by a country mile, in case you're interested). So I'll say no more.

I’m not an expert but nor are you. The bit you should have picked up more is the experts who have informed me and shaped my opinion. To dismiss as ‘utter bollocks’ just screams of you raging against the machine probably because of your closer proximity to. Hard to be impartial about anything you’re heavily invested in afterall. And if labour governed over 1000 years of NHS crisis management it would STILL be all the fault of the tories...zzzzzzz (btw, it isn’t...in case you’re interested. So I’ll say no more )

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I’m not an expert but nor are you. The bit you should have picked up more is the experts who have informed me and shaped my opinion. To dismiss as ‘utter bollocks’ just screams of you raging against the machine probably because of your closer proximity to. Hard to be impartial about anything you’re heavily invested in afterall. And if labour governed over 1000 years of NHS crisis management it would STILL be all the fault of the tories...zzzzzzz (btw, it isn’t...in case you’re interested. So I’ll say no more )

Not a good precis or filleting of my post but, whatever. Perhaps you can enlighten me on how labour have destroyed the NHS? And the identity of the experts that have shaped your otherwise naive opinion would interest me. I am not invested in the NHS because I work for it, btw. I don't. I supply some services (teaching) that I can take or leave. I am invested in it because I have used it for 60 years and it is unmatched. I have lived abroad, too, so I have seen how it can be elsewhere.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I’m not an expert but nor are you. The bit you should have picked up more is the experts who have informed me and shaped my opinion. To dismiss as ‘utter bollocks’ just screams of you raging against the machine probably because of your closer proximity to. Hard to be impartial about anything you’re heavily invested in afterall. And if labour governed over 1000 years of NHS crisis management it would STILL be all the fault of the tories...zzzzzzz (btw, it isn’t...in case you’re interested. So I’ll say no more )

Actually, reading your reply again....wt actual f? I have no idea how it maps onto my post.

 

[portlock seagull]

Not a good precis or filleting of my post but, whatever. Perhaps you can enlighten me on how labour have destroyed the NHS? And the identity of the experts that have shaped your otherwise naive opinion would interest me. I am not invested in the NHS because I work for it, btw. I don't. I supply some services (teaching) that I can take or leave. I am invested in it because I have used it for 60 years and it is unmatched. I have lived abroad, too, so I have seen how it can be elsewhere.

I’m sure you’re able to research to find out how Blair and Brown govt. mortgaged the NHS and saddled it with debt. Who said anything about NHS being unmatched? Think you’ve introduced that as, well, no idea why. Equally the living abroad. And Who hasn’t btw? Moreover, so what? Playground argument. And casting opinions as naive just because it’s not yours. It’s ok to disagree. As said, only repeating what those closer to in senior trust roles said, that and in combination with an article or two read in press over years.

 

[alfredmizen]

My daughter finished her Geography degree and decided she would like to train as a midwife (yes, I know), she applied,was accepted, then Cameron’s government decided to end the bursary. My daughter couldn’t afford an extra 25 grand student loan, on top of the 27 she’s already got, so, no midwifery course for her. It’s extremely short sighted

its f*cking criminally shortsighted , in fact no its not , they know full well what theyre doing.

 

[Frutos]

The NHS is a brilliant institution and the staff, particularly those on the front lines of patient care deserve nothing but the highest credit.

 

[lawros left foot]

No football last night, so I spent an hour on twitter reading Americans who either live here,or have lived here, praising the NHS to the heights. Americans who still live in the USA, and have never lived here were chipping in with their experiences of States health care.

I’m glad I live here, cos I’d be dead in the States.

 

[Klaas]

Just over three weeks ago I experienced how fvcking brilliant the NHS is and how fvcked up it is in the hands of the politicians.

I had a little bit of toothache on the Wednesday, took some drugs, it went away and I thought nothing of it. Felt a little shit on the Friday but thought nothing of it. Saturday my chin had swelled - just thought it was my glads - felt shit but thought it would go away. Sunday my face is like a football and hurts like hell. Mrs W wants me to go to A&E but being a man I just shrug it off.

Monday comes and I'm in so much pain I don't know what to do with myself. Phone the doctors at 9am, describe my symptoms and get a call back from a doctor 4 minutes later. At 9.30 I'm sitting in front of that GP. She phones the RSCH and gets to speak to the duty ENT SHO in two minutes. Told to go to hospital immediately. Report to A&E and I will be collected.

45 minutes later I arrive at A&E, give my details and am told to wait. 5 minutes later I'm being taken to see said SHO. SHO sends me for an x-ray and I jump the queue after waiting 3 minutes. Return to see the SHO and now have a senior nurse giving me IV paracetamol and morphine. Less than 10 minutes and a senior consultant from facial ( can't remember the proper name ) is examining me. I'm assigned a senior nurse to stay with me as I couldn't be left alone. The next 6 hours or so see my stats being taken every thirty minutes and constant visits from the SHO and the consultant. Then two anesthetists examine me to prep me for a tube or a tracheotomy. Unknown to me they are concerned my airway may collapse and they were considering if I was safe enough to transfer to East Grinstead for emergency surgery. Mrs W was briefed all the way along ( I was too high on morphine to fully comprehend ) and was told how serious it was. She was then assigned a nurse to look after her.

The consultant managed to book me an Intensive Care bed at EG and emergency surgery and an ambulance and released two doctors to travel with me in case my airway collapsed on the way. The was no full resuscitation kit on the ambulance so the consultant found the only one in A&E and pulled rank to make sure it was on the ambulance ( that's where the NHS is fvcked up ). Thankfully I was fit to travel without being put under or tubed so it was blues and twos to EG watching most the traffic part as we approached - that said there are an amazing amount of w@ankers that don't get out the way.

Less than 30 minutes from RSCH to EG and I'm lying in Intensive Care being prep'ed for surgery with a gaggle of at least a dozen medical staff around me - all for me ! 10pm I come round in ICU. So 12 hours from seeing my GP to getting what could have been life saving treatment. 24 hours in ICU and then 24 hours on a ward and then a week later a check up at the RSCH and I've met over two dozen NHS staff all of whom were selfless, kind, caring and in my eyes, heroes. We throw the word hero around far too much - especially in football - but I can't fault one single member of NHS staff I can into contact with.

And now the moan. My issue ended up being an abscess under a tooth that had infected another part of my body. This may have been my own fault given I'm so scared of dentists that I haven't been to one for over 10 years. BUT I know plenty of people that don't go to the dentist because it costs so much ( indeed while unemployed Mrs W had to go because she was in so much pain but we didn't have the money to pay for any treatment - over £250 - that she lied on the form and said she was on income based JSA. She ended up being caught and having to pay it back ) - now while that isn't the case for me, imagine it was and how much it has cost the NHS to treat me rather than give front line dental treatment as part of the NHS 'free at the point of care'.

So here's my wish list for the NHS ( and no I don't have a magic money tree ) :

> Inflation plus 3% increase in real funding every year
> For the NHS to be removed from political control and instead run by medical experts alongside non-political, independent experts
> Front line dental treatment to be free ( teeth are a part of our health after all )
> Free eye tests for those that don't get them from their employers
> All front line NHS staff to get indexed link pay rises every year without fail
> A law passed prevent drugs companies taking the piss on the cost of drugs
> Free morphine ..... it's bloody good stuff !!!

OK, maybe not the last one.

And finally, something I've also learned, make sure you get regular dental checkups - I'm taking treatment to get over my fear as I don;t want that to ever happen to me again.

Glad you are ok, and a perfect illustration how the NHS is just amazing in situations like yours.

Funny, I remember you posting you hated dentists in a thread about them. I was the same, didn't go for 15 years. So stupid. Got over it and went. Doesn't bother me at all now.

NHS saved my Dad from the brink of death. They did their damndest to save my brother too. The people who work in it are incredible.

 

[Technohead]

I’m not an expert but nor are you. The bit you should have picked up more is the experts who have informed me and shaped my opinion. To dismiss as ‘utter bollocks’ just screams of you raging against the machine probably because of your closer proximity to. Hard to be impartial about anything you’re heavily invested in afterall. And if labour governed over 1000 years of NHS crisis management it would STILL be all the fault of the tories...zzzzzzz (btw, it isn’t...in case you’re interested. So I’ll say no more )

As an employee of the NHS for 26 years, and head of department for a frontline clinical service I would concur with HWT. Generally the labour government was good for the NHS, although a few of the targets they put in place are a bit suspect. The one big f*** up they made however was PFI.

 

[The Birdman]

Still needs more money however we need to tighten up on no shows for appointments.

 

[Blues Rock DJ]

not denying how lucky we are to have the NHS, but did we go so over the top for the 50th or 60th anniversaries ?

 

[Wrong-Direction]

Having friends who work for the nhs, they don't want a party, they want more resources.

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

 

[Hamilton]

Blimey, you've been in a coma not just away! We privatised energy, water, telecoms whilst hardly a major British brand isn't foreign owned these days. Wembley's up next btw. Not sure what other family silver is left to sell. Danny Dyer perhaps?

I see. So you believe Tony Blair privatised the NHS then. I think you are so very wide of the mark that the curvature of the earth is preventing you from having even the slightest glimpse of it. Introducing different ways to service the NHS and privatising the NHS are two very very things.

As we move forward we'll have to be even more creative when looking for ways to guarantee the access to the NHS that we all have.

Long live the NHS.