[Football] Handball?

[Hotchilidog]

Handball is whatever the ref and VAR say it is. Law 12 is irrelevant right now. it has become purely subjective and this changes from game to game. It's a joke. I rewatched the Pulisic one on the Albion highlights and he clearly left his arm up rather than falling naturally in the running motion so should have been a penalty. I actually think it is tough for the on-field ref to give some of these because of the speed of play, there is no excuse for VAR officials whose job should be to get the right decision not to reinforce wrong ones.

 

[Beanstalk]

Ref said that Trent AAs was not handball. VAR said that it was not a clear and obvious error. Which it wasn't.

I hate to say it but yep, this is correct for both Mitoma and TAA.

Ultimately, Darren Cann shouldn't have flagged for Mitoma and VAR would've come to the same conclusion that it was a contentious decision and therefore not a clear and obvious error and the goal would have been awarded. But he flagged.

Last night, TAA had a contentious handball decision that wasn't given and because it wasn't a clear and obvious error, it wasn't overturned. They're the same decisions from VAR but with different results.

 

[dazzer6666]

Handball is whatever the ref and VAR say it is. Law 12 is irrelevant right now. it has become purely subjective and this changes from game to game. It's a joke. I rewatched the Pulisic one on the Albion highlights and he clearly left his arm up rather than falling naturally in the running motion so should have been a penalty. I actually think it is tough for the on-field ref to give some of these because of the speed of play, there is no excuse for VAR officials whose job should be to get the right decision not to reinforce wrong ones.

Spot on. I can accept real-time mistakes, but not from VAR, nor the ridiculous inconsistencies now being displayed game to game. Webb needs to sort it out pronto, it’s a joke.

 

[pb21]

Ultimately, Darren Cann shouldn't have flagged for Mitoma and VAR would've come to the same conclusion that it was a contentious decision and therefore not a clear and obvious error and the goal would have been awarded. But he flagged.

There is no defined wording for what amounts to a "clear and obvious error", but considering the lino was ~35 m from Mitoma, who was also close to a Tottenham player, and all moving very fast, as you say he shouldn't have flagged in the first place, particularly considering it wasn't handball. IMO, he made an obvious error in doing what he did.

 

[WhingForPresident]

Leeds v Liv: So a crystal clear handball by Trent AA to win the ball is allowed by VAR in the build up to Liverpool's first goal - whereas Mitoma's shoulder control against Tottenham gets ruled out...

VAR is utterly bonkers!

I was just watching the highlights and came here straight after seeing that. Absolute f***ing garbage that TAA can play the ball through on goal with his arm, which is clearly in an 'unnatural' position, yet Mitoma's goal after being shoved by Romero was ruled out and the one that came off Mac Allister'a f***ing HIP.

 

[Silverhatch]

Debatable Handball on Sunday...

If the outcome is positive for United - how likely is the decision to go their way?
If the outcome is positive for Brighton - how likely is the decision to go their way?

A huge part of the consideration/deliberation is contained in the two sentences above. The biggest club in the world vs the trendy upstarts. Stuart Atwell and Michael Salisbury presented as clearer case of unconscious bias as you could ever wish to see at WHL. VAR was adopted to mitigate against these instances. Unfortunately, it's done nothing of the sort. Shitshow.

 

[Beanstalk]

There is no defined wording for what amounts to a "clear and obvious error", but considering the lino was ~35 m from Mitoma, who was also close to a Tottenham player, and all moving very fast, as you say he shouldn't have flagged in the first place, particularly considering it wasn't handball. IMO, he made an obvious error in doing what he did.

Yes, I think the decision was incorrect. Don't get me wrong. I also think the goalposts for a clear and obvious error have moved considerably. I think if there is any argument for the decision being correct on field (the ball hit Mitoma on the sleeve and that is the borderline and it directly led to a goal) they have decided to stick with the on-field decision.

Similarly for TAA, whilst it clearly hit his arm, you could argue that once you factor in distance and that it didn't directly lead to a goal, then you have enough doubt to say that it could go either way so stick with the on-field decision. I don't like it, but ultimately it's the same decision being made by VAR across multiple games.

 

[Lethargic]

Surprised at the lack of understanding of the handball rule in reference to VAR.

The outcome is based on the club badge, simple.

 

[theboybilly]

Throughout the move involving Mitoma you csn see the sleeve logo and the ball is always above it so for me no handball. I really don't see how T A-A's handball was too far back in the move. They are making this stuff up and it's getting tiresome

 

[Rugrat]

Firstly bin the 'clear and obvious error' nonsense ... trying to put in a totally objective camera/measurement capability and having a statement like that sat on top of it discredits the whole thing.

Secondly I think these questionable decisions should be made much more transparantly. So not only should the decision be made but the underlying reasons as to why the decision was made should be communicated. That would weed out the inconsistency (or some of it) I would think.

I'm going handball TAA, shoulder Mitoma

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Spot on. I can accept real-time mistakes, but not from VAR, nor the ridiculous inconsistencies now being displayed game to game. Webb needs to sort it out pronto, it’s a joke.

VAR is getting so bad now it's coming pretty close to bringing the game into disrepute IMHO. How on earth did it come to this?

 

[Giraffe]

Then fact that just on this single thread there have been different interpretations of what the handball rule actually is highlights what a mess they have made of the handball rule, let alone how rubbish VAR is at then interpreting it. Make the handball rule much clearer has to be the starting point surely. I genuinely don't know what handball is anymore.

 

[Surf's Up]

Mitoma’s was handball……….and so was A-As.

Mitoma's wasn't handball it was shoulder ball and well above the sleeve line - I suggest a trip to specsavers!

 

[Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ]

Mitoma's wasn't handball it was shoulder ball and well above the sleeve line - I suggest a trip to specsavers!

The sleeve line has nothing to do with it, look at the rule book again.

 

[dazzer6666]

Mitoma's wasn't handball it was shoulder ball and well above the sleeve line - I suggest a trip to specsavers!

Indeed it was, but below the underarm line - I suggest looking at the laws of the game

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Spot on. I can accept real-time mistakes, but not from VAR, nor the ridiculous inconsistencies now being displayed game to game. Webb needs to sort it out pronto, it’s a joke.

And that is the argument against VAR. What can Webb do ? All I can think of is have VAR re referee the game. That’s what was happening when it was introduced and as far as I remember everyone was up in arms about it because the intention was only to ‘correct’ the obvious refereeing errors. So it was changed to only change ‘clear and obvious’ errors. Unfortunately it has now dawned that this is a subjective call. If a case can be made that the ref was right (no matter how small the probability) then the decision won’t be overturned. That’s where we are and it will never change all the while we have VAR.

 

[dazzer6666]

And that is the argument against VAR. What can Webb do ? All I can think of is have VAR re referee the game. That’s what was happening when it was introduced and as far as I remember everyone was up in arms about it because the intention was only to ‘correct’ the obvious refereeing errors. So it was changed to only change ‘clear and obvious’ errors. Unfortunately it has now dawned that this is a subjective call. If a case can be made that the ref was right (no matter how small the probability) then the decision won’t be overturned. That’s where we are and it will never change all the while we have VAR.

Yep…all it’s done is move the subjectivity to someone else in many cases.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Indeed it was, but below the underarm line - I suggest looking at the laws of the game

I keep hearing this about a sleeve line. If that is really the rule (and I can’t be bothered to look it up) then I would wear long sleeves.

Edit, sorry means to quote @Surf's Up

 

[Justice]

Indeed it was, but below the underarm line - I suggest looking at the laws of the game

The telling sign there was not one Spurs defender called for hand ball, the replays are non conclusive and there is no way the Lino spots that from his position to make a definitive call.

 

[Blues Guitarist]

Mitoma's wasn't handball it was shoulder ball and well above the sleeve line - I suggest a trip to specsavers!

And the linesman agreed that the ball hit Mitoma's shoulder, he indicated exactly where the ball hit - which was inconsistent with the decision he gave.