Handball bt goalkeepers.

[BensGrandad]

This has been debated on here a number of times but I am not really sure that anybody has come up with a definitive answer. When is it handball and when not?

On sky in the Northern Ireland vs Germany u21s game the Irish goal keeper just went for a ball and collected it, the ball was in the box but the summariser Gerry Armstrong I believe it is, said both feet were outside insinuating a handball should have been given, His hands and the ball were clearly in the box so I would assume that if he was fully stretched on the ground with the majority of his body and feet outside the box that constitutes handball irrespective of where the ball is.

 

[Acker79]

These are the sections of the laws of the game that are relevant.

Handling the ball
Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with
the ball with his hand or arm. The referee must take the following into
consideration:
• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)
• the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)
• the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an
infringement
• touching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing, shinguard etc.)
counts as an infringement
• hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard etc.) counts as an
infringement
Disciplinary sanctions
There are circumstances when a caution for unsporting behaviour is required
when a player deliberately handles the ball, e.g. when a player:
• deliberately and blatantly handles the ball to prevent an opponent gaining
possession
• attempts to score a goal by deliberately handling the ball
A player is sent off, however, if he prevents a goal or an obvious goal-scoring
opportunity by deliberately handling the ball. This punishment arises not from
the act of the player deliberately handling the ball but from the unacceptable
and unfair intervention that prevented a goal being scored.
Restart of play
• Direct free kick from the position where the offence occurred (see Law 13 –
Position of Free Kick) or penalty kick
Outside his own penalty area, the goalkeeper has the same restrictions on
handling the ball as does any other player. Inside his own penalty area, the
goalkeeper cannot be guilty of a handling offence incurring a direct free kick
or any misconduct related to handling the ball. He can, however, be guilty of
several handling offences that incur an indirect free kick.
112
Offences committed by goalkeepers
A goalkeeper is not permitted to keep control of the ball in his hands for more
than six seconds. A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball:
• while the ball is between his hands or between his hand and any surface
(e.g. ground, own body)
• while holding the ball in his outstretched open hand
• while in the act of bouncing it on the ground or tossing it into the air
When a goalkeeper has gained possession of the ball with his hands, he cannot
be challenged by an opponent.
A goalkeeper is not permitted to touch the ball with his hand inside his own
penalty area in the following circumstances:
• if he handles the ball again after it has been released from his possession
and has not touched any other player:
– the goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball by touching
it with any part of his hands or arms except if the ball rebounds
accidentally from him, for example, after he has made a save
– possession of the ball includes the goalkeeper deliberately parrying the
ball
• if he touches the ball with his hands after it has been deliberately kicked to
him by a team-mate
• if he touches the ball with his hands after he has received it directly from a
throw-in taken by a team-mate
Restart of play
• Indirect free kick from the position where the offence occurred
(see Law 13 – Position of Free Kick)

I think you could argue the toss. On the one hand the goal keeper is out of his area, so shouldn't be allowed to handle it. However, if the ball is in the area, the point of the infringement is also in the area, so you'd be giving a direct free kick in the goal keepr's own area for handling the ball. Which is a contradiction, no?

I think as long as the ball is in the area, the point of contact between hand and ball is in an area of the pitch where it is permitted. Or that is my interpretation.



Also:
From the red card offences:

denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity
by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper within
his own penalty area)

Shows the ref was right not to red card craig gordon for his handling of the backpass a month or two back.

 

[BensGrandad]

It is a little ambiguous to say the least and doesnt give a definitive answer.

 

[skipper734]

Shirley it's the ball inside the box. Feet must be irrelevant, otherwise logic dictates that the ball would be out of play if the players body was outside of the byline or touchline or goal line. In all these examples the ball has to be out off play.

 

[BensGrandad]

Shirley it's the ball inside the box. Feet must be irrelevant, otherwise logic dictates that the ball would be out of play if the players body was outside of the byline or touchline or goal line. In all these examples the ball has to be out off play.

I would have said the same so why did he summariser say about both feet being outside of the box.

 

[Acker79]

I would have said the same so why did he summariser say about both feet being outside of the box.

Because, like a lot of summarisers, he doesn't actually know the laws of the game and would rather make the rule up in a way that makes the ref look inept when he isn't?

 

[skipper734]

There must have been a bit more to it. For instance if a was just collecting the ball, why was he facing the goal with his body and feet outside the box.

 

[BensGrandad]

There must be a ref who posts on here who can give an answer. The rule shown by

Acker79 doesnt appear to cover this scenario.

 

[BensGrandad]

There must have been a bit more to it. For instance if a was just collecting the ball, why was he facing the goal with his body and feet outside the box.

He collected the ball and slid out of the box turning as he slid along trying to stop him self.

 

[Mr Burns]

The definite answer is it is only hand ball if the ball is handled outside the box.

His feet can be anywhere, doesn't matter, as long as his hands are inside the box, it is not hand ball. His whole body from the wrists down can be outside the box, it's where the hands are that count.

 

[BensGrandad]

The definite answer is it is only hand ball if the ball is handled outside the box.

His feet can be anywhere, doesn't matter, as long as his hands are inside the box, it is not hand ball. His whole body from the wrists down can be outside the box, it's where the hands are that count.

That is not how the summariser reported it and also we had the same on an occassion this season when FDM did it but both feet where inside the box and his hand and the ball were outside, and he wasnt penalised. I would assume that it is dependant on where the feet are rather than the ball and hands.

 

[skipper734]

We all agree then! Gerry was waffling.

 

[skipper734]

That is not how the summariser reported it and also we had the same on an occassion this season when FDM did it but both feet where inside the box and his hand and the ball were outside, and he wasnt penalised.

Yellow card. Direct free kick.

 

[Everest]

What about all the times that keepers have dived at attackers feet, collecting the ball (which stays inside the box) but his legs end up outside the area? Play on, no handball.

If what the twat says is right (which it ain't) how about the times keepers have caught the ball on the goalline but his feet are behind it? Play on, no goal.

The bloke's a twat, FACT.

 

[mcshane in the 79th]

Definitely is soley dependant on where he ball and hands are. Feet and legs can be outside but as long as the hands and ball are in the box it's all good.

 

[BensGrandad]

Definitely is soley dependant on where he ball and hands are. Feet and legs can be outside but as long as the hands and ball are in the box it's all good.

So why wasnt FDM penalised earlier in the season when the refs asst was dead in line with the incident and decided that FDM was inside the box when his hands and the ball clearly werent as they were stretched out in front of him. Just a mistake by the lino?


There must be a ref on here who can give us the correct definitive answer.

 

[Everest]

It's WHERE the offence took place. ie hand touching ball.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

So why wasnt FDM penalised earlier in the season when the refs asst was dead in line with the incident and decided that FDM was inside the box when his hands and the ball clearly werent as they were stretched out in front of him. Just a mistake by the lino?


There must be a ref on here who can give us the correct definitive answer.

A mistake by the lino most definitely. Also the line is part of the area. When marking a pitch the 18 yard line is to the outside edge of the painted line.

 

[SirDouglasLoft]

I think as long as the ball is in the box then it's not handball.

 

[mcshane in the 79th]

So why wasnt FDM penalised earlier in the season when the refs asst was dead in line with the incident and decided that FDM was inside the box when his hands and the ball clearly werent as they were stretched out in front of him. Just a mistake by the lino?


There must be a ref on here who can give us the correct definitive answer.

It was a rare mistake by an official, yes