Hand ball

[pishhead]

On a separate point.. I felt the ref had a great game, barely noticed him..

Agreed. His positioning was also great. He always seemed to be close to the play without ever getting in the players way.

 

[NooBHA]

He definitely didn't feign injury. He got a forearm to the throat from Ryan.

If the ref had missed the hand ball he should have got a guillotine to the throat for handling it into the net

 

[Acker79]

How is that a defender handling the ball to prevent a goal gets a red card, but a forward doing the same to create a goal gets a yellow.
In my thinking both indiscretions are equal, and should revive the same punishment.
Jesus in my opinion knew what to expect, and feinged injury, giving the ref more thinking time.

Because the laws bias toward goalscoring. It's why officials are supposed to give benefit of the doubt to the attacking team at offsides. It's why the offside rule won't go back to 'anyone in an offside position when the ball is played is offside regardless of if they have any impact on the attach'. Goals are considered exciting, and changes to the rules are usually made to increase the chances of goals being scored.

It was one of the things recently included in the list of changes - red card for trying to score with your hand.

Does it?

Yes.

Handling the ball
Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the
ball with the hand or arm.
The following must be considered:
• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)
• the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)
• the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an offence
• touching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.)
is an offence
• hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard, etc.) is an offence

The goalkeeper has the same restrictions on handling the ball as any other
player outside the penalty area. Inside their penalty area, the goalkeeper
cannot be guilty of a handling offence incurring a direct free kick or any related
sanction but can be guilty of handling offences that incur an indirect free kick.​

http://static-3eb8.kxcdn.com/documents/293/092810_310517_LotG_17_18_LAW12.pdf

Personally, I think his arm does move to it, I think he felt it go off his chest, quickly realised it would go wide, and brought his hand in to direct it into the goal. I do think he got a bit of a knock, though he probably milked the amount of treatment he needed.

To start with I didnt think it is an automatic red now - as there would be penalty under the double jeopardy rule is it not only a yellow?

Yes, it is.

Sending-off offences
A player, substitute or substituted player who commits any of the following
offences is sent off:
• denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by
deliberately handling the ball (except a goalkeeper within their penalty area)
• denying a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent whose
overall movement is towards the offender’s goal by an offence punishable by
a free kick (unless as outlined below).
• serious foul play
• spitting at an opponent or any other person
• violent conduct
• using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures
• receiving a second caution in the same match​

(same link)

I personally don't agree with the whole double/triple punishment argument. If I steal your car, the police catch me take your car off me and give it back to you, how have I been punished? I haven't. A penalty kick is giving you back the shot on goal you would have had without the handball. How is the offending team any worse off than they would have been without the attempt to keep the ball out with a hand?

I know the next level is that you're punishing the team for an individual's offence, but that individual's offence benefited the team and without a repercussion for the team, there's no impetus to stop your players cheating in the future.

 

[Langley]

Handball punishment

When a defender deliberately handles the ball denying a goal, he is red carded, but when an attacker does the same thing to score a goal, he is given a yellow card, why the difference? Both of them should warrant the same punishment.
I think the ref bulked at sending off a City player. (Jesus).

 

[sjamesb3466]

I think the yellow was harsh. Right decision to disallow the goal but if the ref thought it was deliberate then it should have been red. If it's not deliberate (I don't think he knew anything about it) then it shouldn't have been a card.

Not sure if that's the rules but that's what I believe

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I think the yellow was harsh. Right decision to disallow the goal but if the ref thought it was deliberate then it should have been red. If it's not deliberate (I don't think he knew anything about it) then it shouldn't have been a card.

Not sure if that's the rules but that's what I believe

I don't think it can be argued, that it wasn't deliberate. His arm was up. He chested it, where players deliberately pull their arms back, so they cannot handle it in error.

 

[banjo]

He must of thought he'd done something wrong,as he was holding his throats after, as if some had strangled him,and tried to deflect the refs attention.

 

[Stat Brother]

Fixt.....

https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showthread.php?355004-Hand-ball

Oh hang on a minute now I'm really confused.

 

[wakeytom]

When a defender deliberately handles the ball denying a goal, he is red carded, but when an attacker does the same thing to score a goal, he is given a yellow card, why the difference? Both of them should warrant the same punishment.
I think the ref bulked at sending off a City player. (Jesus).

Why have you started this thread again? Very strange indeed especially when the defender often will not be red carded within the new laws

 

[wakeytom]

• denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by
deliberately handling the ball (except a goalkeeper within their penalty area)

But we have seen that many times the ref will not call it deliberate and it would be a yellow card. The ball came off his chest first I do not think it was deliberate.

Funny this is such a talking point today as I do not think it made any difference, even if he was sent off (which he would not have been) I think the same result would have happened

 

[Acker79]

But we have seen that many times the ref will not call it deliberate and it would be a yellow card. The ball came off his chest first I do not think it was deliberate.

Funny this is such a talking point today as I do not think it made any difference, even if he was sent off (which he would not have been) I think the same result would have happened

Refs don't tend to call it anything. They just blow their whistle and dish out the punishment, it's not their job to name the laws so that players are educated about IFAB's terminology. They apply the law and try to keep any discussions brief, which would include trying to speak in terms the players understand (it's why, I think, some refs will gesture that a player got the ball in a challenge).

The definition of deliberate can be a bit loose, I suppose, the ref is trying to read someone's mind. I also think refs/refereeing authorities are sometimes under pressure from media/pundits who either don't understand the rule, or don't like that a team can benefit from accidental contact with the hand, and try to factor that in the benefit from accidental handball, but the letter of the law says it has to be deliberate for it to be an offence.

To be honest, I can't think of any example of a player handling the ball to stop a goal or an obvious goal scoring opportunity and only receiving a yellow card.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

But we have seen that many times the ref will not call it deliberate and it would be a yellow card. The ball came off his chest first I do not think it was deliberate.

Funny this is such a talking point today as I do not think it made any difference, even if he was sent off (which he would not have been) I think the same result would have happened

I've just watched it on Seagulls tv, complete with three replays. He chests it, and brings his right arm up, and across his chest, which takes it away from Ryan.
The linesman would have had a good view as well as the ref.

 

[albionalex]

Not sure about the law regarding if it should be a red or not but it was clearly deliberate handball.

 

[studio150]

I thought he should have been red carded, as he got a yellow for the handball, then after receiving treatment he re-entered the field of play without the officials permission which should have been his second yellow card. Instead he is allowed to hold up the game and jog across to the halfway line whole the ref chats to Kompany on the halfway line.

 

[jamie the seagull]

Clattenburg was on the radio this morning and his opinion was goal disallowed and yellow card (Arm movement towards the ball).